News Article: Julio miffed...

FThomas · Jul 24, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Surely you see the difference in your situation and JJ's - his job hasn't changed, they're not asking him to do anything else he's not already agreed to do for X dollars.

Now he's decided he thinks he's worth more and refusing to do what he agreed to do (for a crap-ton of money, no less) unless they will renegotiate for even more money.

It's disgusting behavior - and I don't care if it's common or not. He's showing that greed is a stronger part of his character than his word, and that's sad.

Do you take the same position when teams cancel contracts?

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

FThomas said:
Do you take the same position when teams cancel contracts?

I don't disagree with your line of thinking, and I won't speak for CA, but we have learned to expect the worst from big business. I think that we hope for better from our heros.

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

FThomas said:
Do you take the same position when teams cancel contracts?

I think the difference is the teams have written into their contracts the right to do so and the players know this and agree to give them that right.

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
I think the difference is the teams have written into their contracts the right to do so and the players know this and agree to give them that right.

You realize that the CBA allows players to do this, right? Players just have to be willing to give up 1/17th of their annual salary for each game missed, including pre-season games.

In essence, what Julio is doing is also written into his contract.

RollTide_HTTR · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
I don't disagree with your line of thinking, and I won't speak for CA, but we have learned to expect the worst from big business. I think that we hope for better from our heros.

Maybe expecting athletes to be our heroes is really the problem here?

FThomas · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
I think the difference is the teams have written into their contracts the right to do so and the players know this and agree to give them that right.

What would you advise a player to do to strengthen their bargaining position if they are not being paid fair market salary and you know your career is limited in years; the teams can cancel the contract at any time; and the league does not have guaranteed contracts?

From my stand point, I think the current stand off is destined to happen due to the way the league is structured. The players don't really have much leverage when there are not guaranteed contracts. Do I like holdouts? No. Do I understand why a player does it? Sometimes. Do I think fans villainize the millionaire players without doing the same of billionaire owners for these practices? Yes. Hopefully, under a new CBA they can figure out a way to avoid more of these.

FThomas · Jul 24, 2018

FThomas said:
What would you advise a player to do to strengthen their bargaining position if they are not being paid fair market salary and you know your career is limited in years; the teams can cancel the contract at any time; and the league does not have guaranteed contracts?

From my stand point, I think the current stand off is destined to happen due to the way the league is structured. The players don't really have much leverage when there are not guaranteed contracts. Do I like holdouts? No. Do I understand why a player does it? Sometimes. Do I think fans villainize the millionaire players without doing the same of billionaire owners for these practices? Yes. Hopefully, under a new CBA they can figure out a way to avoid more of these.

A Forbes article talking about this. Noting that Cousins' contract was the first guaranteed contract that lasted 3 years. I figure and hope some of this will get resolved over the next couple of years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/vincentfrank/2018/07/05/nfl-players-call-for-guaranteed-contracts-as-potential-work-stoppage-looms/#3f7f8e352b76

crimsonaudio · Jul 24, 2018

FThomas said:
Do you take the same position when teams cancel contracts?

I don't think they should be able to do so without some massive penalty, no.

But as B1G said, I expect it from them. And honestly, I'm sick of professional athletes who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars behaving like petulant children and holding their breath until they get their way. It's why I stopped watching MLB in the 90s and a big part of why I watch very little NFL anymore.

I don't care because I'm not a Falcons fan and it has zero impact on me whatsoever. I just though that Julio had more character than this. That said, I'm accustomed to being wrong when I expect the best in people - fewer every day seem to be willing to men of honor, character, and integrity.

crimsonaudio · Jul 24, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
Maybe expecting athletes to be our heroes is really the problem here?

This is not my issue with it whatsoever - there's no athlete on the planet in any sport that's a hero of mine.

RollTide_HTTR · Jul 24, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
This is not my issue with it whatsoever - there's no athlete on the planet in any sport that's a hero of mine.

Yea, I think your issue with it is mostly that you seem to have a very strong sense of right and wrong. And I think that's completely fair even if I don't feel/think similarly when it come to this issue.

CrimsonForce · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
I hope that Julio plays in their pre-season games. Each game missed costs him a ton of money (1/17th his 2018 salary).

The teams can, and almost always, waive any fines for situations like this when the player comes back. He's fined something like $40K per missed practice but if he comes back to play in the first game it's pretty much a guarantee the Falcons will not fine him. For missing games - not really sure. There hasn't been very many players sit out games so not sure if they'd waive those or not..

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
You realize that the CBA allows players to do this, right? Players just have to be willing to give up 1/17th of their annual salary for each game missed, including pre-season games.

In essence, what Julio is doing is also written into his contract.

So basically everyone is getting to exercise their contractual rights? So where's the unfairness in all of this for Julio? Not saying that you specifically are or have said that but I've seen it several times in this thread. If both parties are able to exercise their contractual right then no one is being done wrong. So we're back to Julio and his agent making a mistake in their original dealings with his current contract. That's his agent's fault, not the Falcons.

CrimsonForce · Jul 24, 2018

B1GTide said:
Julio has painted himself into a corner here because the Falcons simply cannot afford to give him what he wants this year. This isn't MLB - the cap in the NFL is a hard cap.

Not necessarily true. There's a lot of "creative accounting" teams can do. I've read one option is move some of the money from year 2 or year 3 into this year. I don't know all the ins and outs to the NFL salary cap details but they can give him a bump this year if they want to. Would just hurt their cap down the road. Look up "dead cap space Tony Romo" because the Cowboys were always moving his money around but it ended up costing them down the road. Not sure how much doing this one time would hurt the Falcons in the future..

CrimsonForce · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
The issue isn't that the Falcons don't want to pay him what he's worth a.k.a "Give him a raise". The issue is when they are willing to sit down and do that. Julio and his agent are wanting that done now. The Falcons are wanting to wait until his current contract is closer to expiring. Just like the company I worked for where the supervisor told me that we would revisit my request for an increase in pay during my annual review. The issue was the company policy was raises/pay increases (outside of a mistake in payroll) were handled during annual reviews. When I went to my supervisor, reviews were (if I remember correctly) approximately nine months out. Shortly after my previous annual review my responsibilities drastically changed. I went from supervisor of accounting to being supervisor of accounting, a/p and payroll. I felt like that was enough change in responsibilities to change my classification from supervisor to manager. So I had to wait another 9 months until my next review for the company to review my job status.

Maybe this is just me, but if I worked with a company that was that inflexible IRT compensation and out of cycle promotions I'd look for work somewhere else. I mean 9 months is a long time to wait for a proper salary if someone takes on considerably more responsibility. I've worked for some bad companies but I've never run across something like that.

As far as the bold part - that's why Julio is holding out. It's simply a negotiation tactic that doesn't really hurt the team but lets the team know he's serious about wanting to re-work his deal. In all honesty Julio wouldn't be doing that much in practice considering his injury history. Doubt he'd play in preseason games so what's the problem with him working out on his own to show the team how important a new deal is to him?

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
Maybe this is just me, but if I worked with a company that was that inflexible IRT compensation and out of cycle promotions I'd look for work somewhere else. I mean 9 months is a long time to wait for a proper salary if someone takes on considerably more responsibility. I've worked for some bad companies but I've never run across something like that.

As far as the bold part - that's why Julio is holding out. It's simply a negotiation tactic that doesn't really hurt the team but lets the team know he's serious about wanting to re-work his deal. In all honesty Julio wouldn't be doing that much in practice considering his injury history. Doubt he'd play in preseason games so what's the problem with him working out on his own to show the team how important a new deal is to him?

This is like people who say "If you don't like where you live then move!". It's simply not as easy as that. We all wish it was, trust me.

BAMAVILLE · Jul 24, 2018

Hoping the young man gets paid what he feels he's worth

B1GTide · Jul 24, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
So basically everyone is getting to exercise their contractual rights? So where's the unfairness in all of this for Julio? Not saying that you specifically are or have said that but I've seen it several times in this thread. If both parties are able to exercise their contractual right then no one is being done wrong. So we're back to Julio and his agent making a mistake in their original dealings with his current contract. That's his agent's fault, not the Falcons.

My stance is simple, both sides signed a contract knowing that when/If it was advantageous to them, they could walk away . In this case Julio wants to walk, but in most of these circumstances it is the team walking away from the player. So I have no sympathy for either side. This is exactly how this is designed to work.

bamaga · Jul 24, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
Not necessarily true. There's a lot of "creative accounting" teams can do. I've read one option is move some of the money from year 2 or year 3 into this year. I don't know all the ins and outs to the NFL salary cap details but they can give him a bump this year if they want to. Would just hurt their cap down the road. Look up "dead cap space Tony Romo" because the Cowboys were always moving his money around but it ended up costing them down the road. Not sure how much doing this one time would hurt the Falcons in the future..

This^^, I’ve heard interviews with agents that the Falcons can move year 4 and 5 money to this year, give an extension and signing bonus that could bump his salary to an amount competitive to other WR’s, and still be cap friendly to a point. The falcons are taking a hardline stance to prevent problems down the road with other players. And because so much of their young talent will be ending their rookie contracts the next 2 years. The fault belongs to Julio and his agent for signing a 5year deal. A 5 year rookie deal and then a 5 year vet deal leaves no time to reap the benefits of a rising salary cap.

Bamabuzzard · Jul 24, 2018

bamaga said:
This^^, I’ve heard interviews with agents that the Falcons can move year 4 and 5 money to this year, give an extension and signing bonus that could bump his salary to an amount competitive to other WR’s, and still be cap friendly to a point. The falcons are taking a hardline stance to prevent problems down the road with other players. And because so much of their young talent will be ending their rookie contracts the next 2 years. The fault belongs to Julio and his agent for signing a 5year deal. A 5 year rookie deal and then a 5 year vet deal leaves no time to reap the benefits of a rising salary cap.

So rather than holding out and causing this type media distraction, maybe Julio ought to turn to his agent and start asking some questions. Or better yet, get a new agent. These agents get paid a pretty penny to be shrewd business men on behalf of these players.

bamaga · Jul 24, 2018

All being said, contract and all, his word, bond, everything. The NFL is a different animal than any Business model ever! More power to Julio, Get what you can, while you can.

News Article: Julio miffed...

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