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  1. #40
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    And the players will renegotiate during the middle of their contracts if they continue to play well, and the owners know it. None of this is new. The CBA set it up this way. Both sides have agreed to this madness.
    Right, but people are acting like NFL teams aren't "honoring the contract" when they are. It's stated in the contract when the guaranteed money ends and at the time the player can be cut and the player is not owed anything additional. Negotiating in the middle of the contract is also permissible. So how is the NFL not honoring the contract? If the player doesn't like it they can try to negotiate something different or do what everyone does and look for work elsewhere..

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  3. #41
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonForce View Post
    Right, but people are acting like NFL teams aren't "honoring the contract" when they are. It's stated in the contract when the guaranteed money ends and at the time the player can be cut and the player is not owed anything additional. Negotiating in the middle of the contract is also permissible. So how is the NFL not honoring the contract? If the player doesn't like it they can try to negotiate something different or do what everyone does and look for work elsewhere..
    Both parties have the ability to leverage their position to walk away from a contract - that is what people mean. The party in the position of strength almost always walks away. Only when both parties have relative parity with respect the contract position is a contract simply played out, and then only one season at a time.

    ETA - NFL contracts are really one year contracts. Yes, they look like they are multi-year contracts, but they are not treated that way by either party.

  4. #42
    BamaNation All-American Mystical's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonForce View Post
    That money isn't guaranteed and the players know it. There's people in all walks of life who sign contracts that are only guaranteed up to a certain date. Whether or not employment is kept after that date is up to the person or organization making that decision. When a NFL team cuts a player the team hasn't done anything wrong or immoral. They have a right to do that in accordance to what the player signed up for..
    Remember Albert Haynesworth? He signed a 5 year 100 million dollar contract. How much of that did he get? Not even half. His life style and future commitments, promised donations and such was based off him getting that money. When he fell through on his donation commitments he said he never thought he would not have it. In the NFL when those guys get those outlandish contracts and the fans and media go crazy a quarter of them never get half that money. Albert was never paid 59 million of that 100 million dollar contract. Stanton for the Yankees who signed a 325 million deal over 13 years with the marlins will still see every penny of that even though he is now with the Yankees. Steph Curry for Golden State just signed a 201 million dollar deal over 5 years and will get every penny of it. Moral of the story play baseball or basketball if you can. I would argue Julio is more dominant at his position than Stanton is at his. Debatable if he is not better than Steph.
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  5. #43
    BamaNation Hall of Fame rolltide_21's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Explains why JJ purged all his social media accounts of Falcons images a while back. Said he wanted to start over. I immediately thought contract dispute.


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  6. #44
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Julio wasn't even the highest paid former Alabama player when he signed his contract. That honor went to Marcel Dareus at over 100 million although I am sure he wont get all of that. Julio was willing to take a little less in order to stay in Atlanta at the time. Julio is on pace to be one of if not the greatest receivers of all time. He deserves to be paid at that level. Frankly Ryan is IMHO less valuable than Julio. Ryan benefits from having Julio more than Julio benefits from having Ryan. I've never thought that Ryan is an elite QB. The theory he is at the end of his career is ludicrous since Julio is weight room warrior. I don't see his production tailing off until he is in his mid 30's. I'd hate to see Julio leave Atlanta, but I don't think he'll win a super bowl with Ryan. The NFL is the only league where most of the money is not guaranteed and he needs to get his while the getting is good.

  7. #45
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    Both parties have the ability to leverage their position to walk away from a contract - that is what people mean. The party in the position of strength almost always walks away. Only when both parties have relative parity with respect the contract position is a contract simply played out, and then only one season at a time.

    ETA - NFL contracts are really one year contracts. Yes, they look like they are multi-year contracts, but they are not treated that way by either party.
    Not speaking about Julio specifically but if a player sits out with the demand that the contract be restructured to a higher salary then the player is not honoring the contract. The only way a NFL team could not honor the contract is if they didn't pay the guaranteed portion which doesn't happen. Yes, it's a 1 sided contract but that's what the players agree to. If they don't like the contract structure their time to sit out is during the CBA negotiations - not mid contract when they have already signed and agreed.

  8. #46
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonForce View Post
    Not speaking about Julio specifically but if a player sits out with the demand that the contract be restructured to a higher salary then the player is not honoring the contract. The only way a NFL team could not honor the contract is if they didn't pay the guaranteed portion which doesn't happen. Yes, it's a 1 sided contract but that's what the players agree to. If they don't like the contract structure their time to sit out is during the CBA negotiations - not mid contract when they have already signed and agreed.
    We will have to agree to disagree. You are stuck on the word "contract" without even trying to understand that the owners knew that this was part of the deal when they agreed to the current (and previous) collective bargaining agreement. The owners are not calling it a breach of contract - they never have. Reason - if they do, the players will demand fully guaranteed contracts during the next bargaining period.

    If you want to be upset - fine by me. But the owners are not the least bit concerned about this. This is how they want it.

  9. #47
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree. You are stuck on the word "contract" without even trying to understand that the owners knew that this was part of the deal when they agreed to the current (and previous) collective bargaining agreement. The owners are not calling it a breach of contract - they never have. Reason - if they do, the players will demand fully guaranteed contracts during the next bargaining period.

    If you want to be upset - fine by me. But the owners are not the least bit concerned about this. This is how they want it.
    First, LOL at the upset comment. Not in the least. Just find it funny that so many here don't really follow NFL yet speak on it like they're experts. We see this all the time around the draft also. You keep moving the goalposts so let me bring this back to the original conversation when you quoted me. There are several here and elsewhere who say that a NFL team is not honoring a contract when they cut a player. That is false. The contract allows for the team to cut a player with no more money owed at a certain point in the contract. At that point the team has honored the contract. Conversely, if Julio or any other player were to sit out and not play because they were demanding to be paid more money that would be not honoring the contract. Sure, any player can hold out or just leave the NFL on their own free will but the player trying to hold the team hostage over what the player signed and agreed means they're not honoring the contract. You're right about one thing - the owners do not call holding out a breach of contract but what they do is fine the player according to the fine schedule in the contract and can withhold other performance and workout bonuses. If the players want fully guaranteed contracts the time to fight for that is during CBA negotiations not mid contract.

    To make this easy to understand, Julio basically wants the Falcons to pay him more money because of the bad WR contracts the Browns gave Jarvis Landry and the Chiefs gave Sammy Watkins. This happens all the time when a bad team overpays for a player. Before the offseason and those WRs signed there wasn't an issue. Those 2, and I think a few more, signed contracts that most thought were way overvalued so all of the sudden Julio thinks he should make more. Just not how it works unless Julio negotiated a clause in his contract which would escalate his salary to keep him in the top 3 WR salary pay or something like that. Julio probably had the leverage to do that back when he signed his original deal but he didn't so he needs to play for what he signed for..

  10. #48
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Coming from a point of uncertainty here, but aren't most contracts front-loaded with big signing bonuses then a more average salary per year for the rest of the contract? If so, then it sounds like the players are complaining about that yearly salary being lower than they would like, when they didn't complain at all when they got the big bonus on the front end. Is that bonus paid out all the front end too, or is it prorated over the contract? And if they are cut, don't they still get the remaining portion of the prorated bonus (if it wasn't all paid up front)?

  11. #49
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonForce View Post
    First, LOL at the upset comment. Not in the least. Just find it funny that so many here don't really follow NFL yet speak on it like they're experts. We see this all the time around the draft also. You keep moving the goalposts so let me bring this back to the original conversation when you quoted me. There are several here and elsewhere who say that a NFL team is not honoring a contract when they cut a player. That is false. The contract allows for the team to cut a player with no more money owed at a certain point in the contract. At that point the team has honored the contract. Conversely, if Julio or any other player were to sit out and not play because they were demanding to be paid more money that would be not honoring the contract. Sure, any player can hold out or just leave the NFL on their own free will but the player trying to hold the team hostage over what the player signed and agreed means they're not honoring the contract. You're right about one thing - the owners do not call holding out a breach of contract but what they do is fine the player according to the fine schedule in the contract and can withhold other performance and workout bonuses. If the players want fully guaranteed contracts the time to fight for that is during CBA negotiations not mid contract.

    To make this easy to understand, Julio basically wants the Falcons to pay him more money because of the bad WR contracts the Browns gave Jarvis Landry and the Chiefs gave Sammy Watkins. This happens all the time when a bad team overpays for a player. Before the offseason and those WRs signed there wasn't an issue. Those 2, and I think a few more, signed contracts that most thought were way overvalued so all of the sudden Julio thinks he should make more. Just not how it works unless Julio negotiated a clause in his contract which would escalate his salary to keep him in the top 3 WR salary pay or something like that. Julio probably had the leverage to do that back when he signed his original deal but he didn't so he needs to play for what he signed for..
    I agree except for the bolded. This is exactly how it works. Almost every NFL player who is outplaying his contract as a veteran does this once the guaranteed portion of the contract ends.

    Also, sorry for the "upset" comment. I made a poor assumption. All of your posts have been logical. But you seem to see what the players do in this situation as "wrong" in some way, and it is not. The CBA has remedies built in to handle these situations specifically because it is normal. You see, it isn't just the player's contract in play - the CBA is also in play. The players and owners have agreed to both. And sometimes the two interact in ways that seem as if one party or the other is doing something unethical when in reality they are doing something totally within the construct of the two agreements.

  12. #50
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWave View Post
    Coming from a point of uncertainty here, but aren't most contracts front-loaded with big signing bonuses then a more average salary per year for the rest of the contract? If so, then it sounds like the players are complaining about that yearly salary being lower than they would like, when they didn't complain at all when they got the big bonus on the front end. Is that bonus paid out all the front end too, or is it prorated over the contract? And if they are cut, don't they still get the remaining portion of the prorated bonus (if it wasn't all paid up front)?
    I have not seen the players complain. But the players want fully guaranteed contracts like their peers in other sports.

  13. #51
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    I have not seen the players complain. But the players want fully guaranteed contracts like their peers in other sports.
    But do they want to be able to do that yet still hold out in situations like the one Julio is in as well? Can't have your cake and eat it too (though what is the point in having cake if you can't eat it?).

  14. #52
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Julio miffed...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedWave View Post
    But do they want to be able to do that yet still hold out in situations like the one Julio is in as well? Can't have your cake and eat it too (though what is the point in having cake if you can't eat it?).
    Wouldn't happen - at least, it doesn't happen in the other sports. When your contract is fully guaranteed, you wait until the last year of your contract to begin "negotiating", and both parties have an interest in doing so.

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