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  1. #14
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTide View Post
    I agree with B1G, auburn, with the exception of a few years, is a very good team in spite of their HCs. I have made this point numerous times and, am usually met with criticism. They circle the IB every year and in most cases play their best game of the season.
    The interesting fact to me over all of Coach Bryant's and the subsequent coaches careers is the fact that Auburn has always competed so well in recruiting in Alabama, Georgia and Florida. Regardless of their home field advantage one has to admit that they have consistently put a competitive team on the field and have been willing to do what is necessary to compete on the field against Alabama.

    Some here likely recall Coach Bryant saying that they should never recruit successfully against the state university but that has proven to not be such an overwhelming obstacle.

    As difficult as it is to admit there have been periods under Pat Dye and Tuberville that they just put a better football team on the field. With all of his tremendous success CNS has not totally solved that puzzle.

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  3. #15
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by UAH View Post
    The interesting fact to me over all of Coach Bryant's and the subsequent coaches careers is the fact that Auburn has always competed so well in recruiting in Alabama, Georgia and Florida. Regardless of their home field advantage one has to admit that they have consistently put a competitive team on the field and have been willing to do what is necessary to compete on the field against Alabama.

    Some here likely recall Coach Bryant saying that they should never recruit successfully against the state university but that has proven to not be such an overwhelming obstacle.

    As difficult as it is to admit there have been periods under Pat Dye and Tuberville that they just put a better football team on the field. With all of his tremendous success CNS has not totally solved that puzzle.
    I forget who said it, but the question was posed to some analyst on Al.com ďWould Dabo succeed at Alabama?Ē He said ďyesĒ then the follow up question was ď Are there things Dabo could do better than CNSĒ the guy said, ď His teams would be far more emotionally invested in the iron bowl than CNSĒ

    I think there is some truth to it. CNS tries to treat every game like the last, but Auburn treats the Iron Bowl like the NCG. It just seems like we come in with a game plan and wonít deviate from it regardless of the situation. They are constantly trying to find one that sticks.

    Yeah we are going to beat them far more times than they beat us but sometimes Sara Connor just finds a way to blow up the terminator. Auburn will continue to beat us every 3-4 years because they play above their heads with a pretty talented team.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; June 14th, 2018 at 07:23 AM.

  4. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame KrAzY3's Avatar
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Why in the heck are we counting what happened at LSU? It was a different team facing a different coach. There's no meaningful data to be found there, just demonstrates an obsession with Auburn...
    Apologies if I said anything that could be construed as a personal insult.
    "Everybody that chooses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game." - Nick Saban

  5. #17
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    His record at LSU is irrelevant to me, and the first year is a tough one for any coach, so I didn't sweat that one.

    The 2010 game was one of the most bizarre games I have watched, considering that crazy fumble that bounced straight down the sideline and out of the endzone, and the fumble at the Auburn 3 yard line that lay on the field for what seemed an eternity till their guy ran around 2 of our linemen to fall on it. That aside, I have to admit that Cam Newton was a very good qb, and that's what beats Saban more often than anything. The 2013 ending was pretty crazy too, but they may have beaten us in overtime anyway. They were playing better than us by the end of the game.

    Last year, though, I think falls squarely on Coach Saban. Even though the defense was decimated with injuries, I think we'd have beaten Auburn with Tagovailoa. The offense managed 14 points. Daboll said he wanted to play Tua earlier. I wish it had happened. Some folks seem to be ok with losing to Auburn because we won the national title. I'm never ok with losing to Auburn. I just don't like them.

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by deliveryman35 View Post
    Itís off -season and I thought we could take a deep dive into what really has been somewhat of a head-scratcher during these past 10-11 years of glory and that is Sabanís rather unstellar record against the barn when compared against his overall record. 9-7 is his all-time record if I am correct, which is ONE game over .500. Numerous reasons have been put forth and I have my thoughts on the matter, but Iím interested in reading what a broad cross section of our fellow posters think. Has it just been sheer luck or good fortune for the barn, or is it something else? I look forward to hearing what all of yíall think.
    My cynicism will show, no doubt.

    I think WAY TOO MUCH is made of this stuff. WAY too much.


    Tidefans: "Tennessee is our real rival, NOT Auburn, I wish Auburn played in the East and we didn't play them every year."
    Same Tidefans: "Why can't Saban beat our arch rival Auburn when they've got a good team?"

    I've written on this board ad nauseous about the whole thing, but first let's dispel a few myths:


    1) There is hardly ever a real "upset" in the Iron Bowl.

    The myth that "any team can win," while 'literally' true, is a misnomer. Virtually every single time this game is played, the better team wins. Even in those cases where we can say the better team didn't win - 1972, 2001, 2002, 2010, 2013, 2017 - the gap between the perceived better team and the perceived underdog wasn't really all that far. Auburn's 1972 team was a 10-1 team ranked #5 that smoked #13 Colorado in the Gator Bowl. The 2001 Auburn team that lost to Alabama, 31-7, wound up with the exact same 7-5 record as the Tide - so how is that an upset? 2002 upsets fans because it was pretty obvious the team didn't even show up to play, but a 10-3 team losing to a 9-4 team isn't really an upset no matter how you try to slice it. Keep in mind this same 2002 Auburn team beat LSU, 31-7, three weeks before Alabama beat the same Saban-coached LSU team, 31-0. They also beat Miss St by a larger margin and lost to UGA by the same 3-point margin Alabama did. In other words.....using common opponents one can argue the teams were virtually even (Arkansas appears to be a substantial outlier - both teams beat Ole Miss.....Alabama substantially but keep in mind the Tide had an off week before playing Eli at home while Auburn played them in Oxford one week after beating LSU, the defending SEC champ.

    2010? Well, it's unpopular to say here but fans need to just accept the fact Auburn was a better team that year than we were. We can pile the excuses as high as we want, but they simply were. Yes, the Ingram fumble was the kind of thing that makes you shake your head. But on the flip side "but Mark Barron was injured" not only sounds to me a lot like "if Colt hadn't got hurt," but Auburn had two players (Goggans and Blanc) who missed the first half. I mean, who's to say that didn't help us (to a point) getting the 24-point lead in the first place?

    2013? Well, it was winner-take-all so Auburn wasn't BAD by any stretch of the imagination. And last year, Auburn had just thumped #1 Georgia pretty handily.


    The only real genuine upset during my lifetime was the 1984 game, and even that only happened because Pat Dye outsmarted himself. He goes for two to set up the field goal for the win......and then decides to bypass the field goal and NOT give the ball to Bo Jackson.


    2) Coaches are NOT fired "because they lost the Iron Bowl."

    OK caveat. HEAD coaches are not fired because they don't win the IB.

    Quick - name one.

    Curry? He wasn't fired, he left for UK on his own (and his job at the time was not in danger)
    Dye? He left because sanctions he oversaw were coming
    Bowden? He was 3-2 and had beaten Alabama the last time they played
    DuBose? He was 2-2 and had already resigned when he lost the last one.
    Fran? He left on his own.
    Tubs? Aside from nobody really knowing whether he quit or was fired, Auburn had been in a bad marriage with the guy since 2003. Oh btw....he'd won 3 of 4 IBs at the time Jetgate happened
    Chizik? He was gone anyway (though I will admit if his 2012 team had beaten us, it would have been a MASSIVE upset).
    Shula? He wasn't fired because he lost to Auburn, he was fired for a litany of reasons that INCLUDED "has not beaten Auburn," but he was gone anyway.

    OK, maybe Doug Barfield. But he had had 3 losing seasons in five years and if you took away his one bright year in 1979, his overall record was 21-22-1.

    3) You can't use Saban's record at LSU to say he has trouble with a team.

    Saban is 1-1 against ULM at Alabama. Does anyone even care?

    Mike DuBose once beat Steve Spurrier TWICE in the span of about nine weeks, including a blowout.
    Does ANYBODY - nobody how drunk you are - actually think Dubious is in the same galaxy as Spurrier as a head coach?
    Mike Shula beat Urban Meyer, 31-3, in the latter's first season in the SEC.

    It's played with a weird shaped ball and stuff happens.


    Almost nobody outside of LSU remembers that Saban lost to UAB. Ok, both UAB fans remember it, but I digress.

    But okay, let's look at it.

    2000 - lost to the SEC Western Division champions; keep in mind this was Saban's FIRST SEC game and on the road
    2001 - beat Auburn with the #7 final ranked SEC champions
    2002 - lost to Auburn - also routed by Va Tech (who nearly beat #1 Miami), Alabama (best team in SEC West), lost to West champ Arky and needed a miracle to beat 7-5 Kentucky
    2003 - beat Auburn with the national champions
    2004 - lost 10-9.......

    but how many of you saw that last game? LSU took the opening kickoff and scored a TD and missed the PAT five minutes into the game. Auburn tied the game with two minutes to go. Auburn then missed the PAT but got a disputed reprieve from the officials and made the second kick to win, 10-9.

    So he was 2-3 and lost all three road games......but every single time Auburn was the better team.


    2007 - wasn't even really his team, crippled by Textbookgate......lost by 7....on the road.
    2008 - won in a rout. Yes, Auburn was 5-7, but they were close enough to win all their losses but us and WVA
    2009 - "but the final score was too close, we almost lost!"

    And yet Auburn had a week off to prep, we had a short week (the game was on Friday), we had ALL the pressure on us.......and we won like we should have.
    We didn't have the depth then we would during the prime run of 2011-13.

    2010 - we lost to the better team, no question.

    2011 - we blow them out
    2012 - we blow them out

    2013 - we DID lose, but how you not give Auburn credit?

    We missed three field goals before, you know.
    Auburn was a one dimensional running team, and we still couldn't stop them (nearly 300 yards rushing; 39 of their 97 yards passing came on the tying
    toss to Coates)
    In the final 7 minutes of the game, we had the ball in the Auburn red zone twice.......and got no points.

    And let's be honest and admit Auburn out-Sabaned Saban on the return.


    Was Alabama the more talented team? Absolutely

    But we didn't play better on that day, and Auburn wasn't a "bad" team by any stretch.

    2014 - "Alabama has never beaten a nine-win Auburn team"

    yeah, because they lost in overtime to Wisconsin........whom they should have beaten.......

    2015 - we won, hooray!

    2016 - we won again

    2017 - yeah we lost, but a lot of us who were at the LSU game or observant with the MSU game should have seen this one coming.

    Saban is 7-4 at Alabama vs Auburn. Bryant - at the same mark - was 9-2.
    Of course, Bryant didn't play Auburn in Jordan-Hare, ever, either.
    He also didn't play them when he was at Kentucky.
    And Bryant didn't have scholarship limitations.
    Or face (or have) black players.

    While losses to Auburn frustrate us to no end, they aren't REALLY any different than almost any other loss. It matters to you folks who live in Alabama on a daily basis, but that's a smaller portion of who actually goes to school at both places than it's ever been. This isn't the old rural days of radio and one appearance per year on TV.


    If the three-peat would have ended on the same type of play with a loss to, say, FSU in the national title game or even Missouri in the SEC title game......would it really hurt that much less?

    I just don't think so.
    "And if I die in Raleigh - at least I will die free"

    "In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Tuscaloosa underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the REC."

  7. #19

    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Why include Saban's record against AU when he was at LSU? Literally nothing about his time at LSU compares to what he has done at Bama.
    Oderint dum metuant - Lucius Accius

  8. #20
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonaudio View Post
    Why include Saban's record against AU when he was at LSU? Literally nothing about his time at LSU compares to what he has done at Bama.
    Yeah I donít understand that part as well. Unless you are trying to argue the ď CNS has never beaten a 9 win Auburn teamĒ angle it makes no sense.

  9. #21
    BamaNation All-American tusks_n_raider's Avatar
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Yeah I don’t understand that part as well. Unless you are trying to argue the “ CNS has never beaten a 9 win Auburn team” angle it makes no sense.
    For my part I was only responding to the OP's criteria of looking at CNS's career against AU. In looking at it I don't see where it's so much CNS 'can't beat good AU teams' but rather CNS has trouble beating AU at Jordan-Hare.

    In Home games his record against them is 7-1. The only loss is the 2010 game to the eventual National Champion.

    In Road games at JH he is 2-6. The lone 2 wins were from the 2009 and 2015 National Champions. The 2009 game we trailed until the final drive and the 2015 game was closer than the final score. It was a 9 point game until Henry's last second TD run.

    AU (to their credit) is incredibly difficult to beat at JH. I'm telling you that place is crawling with Voodoo.
    Last edited by tusks_n_raider; June 14th, 2018 at 08:58 AM.

  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame GrayTide's Avatar
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Why do we still have to use excuses when we lose to auburn? They only have to be better than us on IB game day.
    "My momma always said you got to put the past behind you before you can move on." Forrest Gump

    "The past is never dead. It's not even past." William Faulkner

    "Get off my lawn." Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino

  11. #23
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by KrAzY3 View Post
    Why in the heck are we counting what happened at LSU? It was a different team facing a different coach. There's no meaningful data to be found there, just demonstrates an obsession with Auburn...
    Exactly. Thank you.

  12. #24
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    FWIW, I agree with most of what's been posted so far, and I Particularly APPRECIATE Selma's very thoughtful post!!

    Just to pile on, I agree that Saban's record at LSux isn't relevant - UA is clearly different than LSu, and Coach Saban is clearly a better coach Post vs. Pre-Miami Dolphins.

    That said, there are some issues that (At least in My MIND) are undeniable:

    (1) - NO ONE in CFB gets more help from the officials than the barners get at Jerkin-Hair. Call me a poor sport if you want, but I've watched this for 40+ years, and its NOT just when they play us. For Example - I saw a game they played at home against MSU in 2011 - "Defending (tainted) National Champions*" - aub "Sealed" the victory when they were awarded a first down after a 4th down attempt when the TV Camera even showed the ball Completely behind the sticks!!!!
    They get break after break,
    year after year,
    to the point that it's FAR BEYOND anything you could possibly call "Chance" or "Luck".

    Yes, the "ball bounced their way" (BOTH Figuratively and LITERALLY) MANY Times in the 2010 game - but even that can be called "Chance". The "manure" that goes on with officiating at J-H is NOT "Chance".

    Saban's LSu team was robbed in 2004 with a totally bogus "Mulligan" that gave aub the win, and we were totally "done over" in 2013 with REPEATED cases of their QB passing the ball with O.Linemen downfield, AND/OR throwing from beyond the LOS. Not just once. Not just the one late TD pass that the TV crew questioned, but over and over, all day long.

    And to a lesser degree, the officiating has been that way almost every time we've played there since 1989.

    (2) As noted, aub treats this game like the Superbowl, and it shows. I think another poster said Saban treats it like any other game. I'm no so sure about that, because it seems to me that we VERY OFTEN come out in these games and play TIGHT. Especially in the early going.

    (3) Also as noted, it's not like we are losing these game to Vandy - the boogs DO field some very good teams (best money can buy, some would say......)
    In 2010, aub WAS the better team - we still CHOKED MASSIVELY in a game we really "Should" have won. (This same error - relaxing on a lead, appeared again in January 2015 and cost us our first P_ayoff game.)
    In 2013, aub WAS at least as good as us, if not better - we still blew MANY chances and really COULD have won the game had we played just a LITTLE better/smarter.
    In 2017, aub WAS a really strong team there at the end until they lost their big RB - ask Kirby Smart. But this too was a game that COULD have been won with better decision making on the sidelines. The "Silver Lining"? - at least the mistake that cost us that game WAS taken to heart by Coach Saban, and corrected in the second half of the NC game. Still, it's a game that COULD have been won.

    (4) - Would I trade a SINGLE NC for an all time undefeated record vs. the Barn? No way.

  13. #25
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    If Auburn has something to play for.... They beat us every time.


    If they donít.... we usually skunk them everytime. The only exceptions are 09 and 14
    I know what you are saying, but for them, AU has everything to play for when they are playing Alabama. They are breathing fire every single time. If Bama is up 35-0, they are straining their guts to cut it to 35-7. Incentive is NEVER an issue.

  14. #26
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    Re: Examining Sabanís 9-7 Record Against the Barn

    As far as Jordan-Hare, at Bama, Saban is 3-2 following the first year. Voodoo has nothing to do with it.

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