Examining Saban’s 9-7 Record Against the Barn

81usaf92 said:

Yeah I don’t understand that part as well. Unless you are trying to argue the “ CNS has never beaten a 9 win Auburn team” angle it makes no sense.

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For my part I was only responding to the OP's criteria of looking at CNS's career against AU. In looking at it I don't see where it's so much CNS 'can't beat good AU teams' but rather CNS has trouble beating AU at Jordan-Hare.

In Home games his record against them is 7-1. The only loss is the 2010 game to the eventual National Champion.

In Road games at JH he is 2-6. The lone 2 wins were from the 2009 and 2015 National Champions. The 2009 game we trailed until the final drive and the 2015 game was closer than the final score. It was a 9 point game until Henry's last second TD run.

AU (to their credit) is incredibly difficult to beat at JH. I'm telling you that place is crawling with Voodoo.

Why do we still have to use excuses when we lose to auburn? They only have to be better than us on IB game day.

KrAzY3 said:

Why in the heck are we counting what happened at LSU? It was a different team facing a different coach. There's no meaningful data to be found there, just demonstrates an obsession with Auburn...

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Exactly. Thank you.

FWIW, I agree with most of what's been posted so far, and I Particularly APPRECIATE Selma's very thoughtful post!!

Just to pile on, I agree that Saban's record at LSux isn't relevant - UA is clearly different than LSu, and Coach Saban is clearly a better coach Post vs. Pre-Miami Dolphins.

That said, there are some issues that (At least in My MIND) are undeniable:

(1) - NO ONE in CFB gets more help from the officials than the barners get at Jerkin-Hair. Call me a poor sport if you want, but I've watched this for 40+ years, and its NOT just when they play us. For Example - I saw a game they played at home against MSU in 2011 - "Defending (tainted) National Champions*" - aub "Sealed" the victory when they were awarded a first down after a 4th down attempt when the TV Camera even showed the ball Completely behind the sticks!!!!
They get break after break,
year after year,
to the point that it's FAR BEYOND anything you could possibly call "Chance" or "Luck".

Yes, the "ball bounced their way" (BOTH Figuratively and LITERALLY) MANY Times in the 2010 game - but even that can be called "Chance". The "manure" that goes on with officiating at J-H is NOT "Chance".

Saban's LSu team was robbed in 2004 with a totally bogus "Mulligan" that gave aub the win, and we were totally "done over" in 2013 with REPEATED cases of their QB passing the ball with O.Linemen downfield, AND/OR throwing from beyond the LOS. Not just once. Not just the one late TD pass that the TV crew questioned, but over and over, all day long.

And to a lesser degree, the officiating has been that way almost every time we've played there since 1989.

(2) As noted, aub treats this game like the Superbowl, and it shows. I think another poster said Saban treats it like any other game. I'm no so sure about that, because it seems to me that we VERY OFTEN come out in these games and play TIGHT. Especially in the early going.

(3) Also as noted, it's not like we are losing these game to Vandy - the boogs DO field some very good teams (best money can buy, some would say......)
In 2010, aub WAS the better team - we still CHOKED MASSIVELY in a game we really "Should" have won. (This same error - relaxing on a lead, appeared again in January 2015 and cost us our first P_ayoff game.)
In 2013, aub WAS at least as good as us, if not better - we still blew MANY chances and really COULD have won the game had we played just a LITTLE better/smarter.
In 2017, aub WAS a really strong team there at the end until they lost their big RB - ask Kirby Smart. But this too was a game that COULD have been won with better decision making on the sidelines. The "Silver Lining"? - at least the mistake that cost us that game WAS taken to heart by Coach Saban, and corrected in the second half of the NC game. Still, it's a game that COULD have been won.

(4) - Would I trade a SINGLE NC for an all time undefeated record vs. the Barn? No way.

81usaf92 said:

If Auburn has something to play for.... They beat us every time.


If they don’t.... we usually skunk them everytime. The only exceptions are 09 and 14

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I know what you are saying, but for them, AU has everything to play for when they are playing Alabama. They are breathing fire every single time. If Bama is up 35-0, they are straining their guts to cut it to 35-7. Incentive is NEVER an issue.

As far as Jordan-Hare, at Bama, Saban is 3-2 following the first year. Voodoo has nothing to do with it.

BamaInBham said:

As far as Jordan-Hare, at Bama, Saban is 3-2 following the first year. Voodoo has nothing to do with it.

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You are really sticking by this to the bitter end. JHS is the graveyard of good to great Alabama teams historically, and so many shenanigans happen there it’s not even funny or debatable. Don’t you find it funny that they thumped UGA there and a few weeks later get thumped themselves.

CNS is 3-3 at JHS as Bama’s head coach. Let’s look at all of them.

07- DJ Hall cost us but I think ultimately the better team won. L

09- we were lucky to get out of there alive against an Auburn team that had no business playing with us. W

11- Alabama had no chance of getting to Atlanta at that point and the only game that mattered was that game. Plus revenge was in the air against an Auburn team that was totally depleted of talent. W

13- We got outcoached when it mattered by Auburn and we had a brain dead OC on the sidelines with one of the best offenses in Alabama history. Auburn was still equal in probably equal in overall talent on the first line. L

15- It was a bigger fight than what it should’ve been but find me one person that really was concerned about Jeremy Johnson. W

17- Yes injures played a role, but Hurts still will lose a shootout to Stidham anyways you slice it when Auburn stops our run. L

CNS only beats bad Auburn teams down there. But all you have to do to see the advantage JHS has is look at the first 4 IBs there. They are ridiculous in how officials let them get away with murder in those four. I think the only IB at JHS in which we won the penalty game was 2015.

BamaInBham said:

I know what you are saying, but for them, AU has everything to play for when they are playing Alabama. They are breathing fire every single time. If Bama is up 35-0, they are straining their guts to cut it to 35-7. Incentive is NEVER an issue.

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Then find me an IB outside of 94 and 71 in which the SECW was on the line between both schools in which we won. Then find me a time outside of 09 in which an undefeated Alabama team went to Lee Co and came out undefeated.

UAH said:

The interesting fact to me over all of Coach Bryant's and the subsequent coaches careers is the fact that Auburn has always competed so well in recruiting in Alabama, Georgia and Florida. Regardless of their home field advantage one has to admit that they have consistently put a competitive team on the field and have been willing to do what is necessary to compete on the field against Alabama.

Some here likely recall Coach Bryant saying that they should never recruit successfully against the state university but that has proven to not be such an overwhelming obstacle.

As difficult as it is to admit there have been periods under Pat Dye and Tuberville that they just put a better football team on the field. With all of his tremendous success CNS has not totally solved that puzzle.

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Bama now gets 80-90% of who they really want in Alabama. They even get AU legacies and kids from AU/Opelika HSs. Under Coach Bryant, Bama probably got 70-80% of who they really wanted. Nevertheless, AU has usually fielded good teams with many very good Georgia and Florida kids. Historically, AU is a top 14-18 program according to how one evaluates. They are not going to be shutout by anyone. Against long time SEC programs, they only have losing records vs Bama, LSU and barely UGA, and neither the Bama or LSU series' are lopsided. Why should they not recruit well ? They are not close to Alabama, but they are good.

BamaInBham said:

The difference between 9 and 7 is 2.

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True, but the difference between 9-7 and 8-8 (.500) is 1 game. There are no ties, so any game not won is lost. But I don't care what CNS's record was against *u when he coached LSU. I wish he was undefeated while at 'Bama, but he's not. If he wins every time he coaches against them for the rest of his career, I'll be pretty happy though.

81usaf92 said:

You are really sticking by this to the bitter end. JHS is the graveyard of good to great Alabama teams historically, and so many shenanigans happen there it’s not even funny or debatable. Don’t you find it funny that they thumped UGA there and a few weeks later get thumped themselves.

CNS is 3-3 at JHS as Bama’s head coach. Let’s look at all of them.

07- DJ Hall cost us but I think ultimately the better team won. L

09- we were lucky to get out of there alive against an Auburn team that had no business playing with us. W

11- Alabama had no chance of getting to Atlanta at that point and the only game that mattered was that game. Plus revenge was in the air against an Auburn team that was totally depleted of talent. W

13- We got outcoached when it mattered by Auburn and we had a brain dead OC on the sidelines with one of the best offenses in Alabama history. Auburn was still equal in probably equal in overall talent on the first line. L

15- It was a bigger fight than what it should’ve been but find me one person that really was concerned about Jeremy Johnson. W

17- Yes injures played a role, but Hurts still will lose a shootout to Stidham anyways you slice it when Auburn stops our run. L

CNS only beats bad Auburn teams down there. But all you have to do to see the advantage JHS has is look at the first 4 IBs there. They are ridiculous in how officials let them get away with murder in those four. I think the only IB at JHS in which we won the penalty game was 2015.

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Again, we usually just do no communicate well. But I will try.

First of all CNS's Bama is 3-2 in the last 10 years just like I said. 2 of those wins were against 7-4 AU teams. I.e., obviously not great, they were teams Bama should have beaten, but IMO, they were not bad teams.

I never said J-H is not an advantage, in fact, IMO, their fans provide a definite advantage. What I said was that it "was not voodoo". I.e., that it was not Bama vs AU and some "cosmic" foe like some Bama fans imagine, like Bama just can't win in J-H. They do win there, they are 3-2 in their last 5.

Not addressing you but some others here who complain about Saban not getting the players up for AU:

Only numbers that we should really care about when comparing CNS vs. the Barn:

6 NC > 1 NC (bought)

BamaInBham said:

Again, we usually just do no communicate well. But I will try.

First of all CNS's Bama is 3-2 in the last 10 years just like I said. 2 of those wins were against 7-4 AU teams. I.e., obviously not great, they were teams Bama should have beaten, but IMO, they were not bad teams.

I never said J-H is not an advantage, in fact, IMO, their fans provide a definite advantage. What I said was that it "was not voodoo". I.e., that it was not Bama vs AU and some "cosmic" foe like some Bama fans imagine, like Bama just can't win in J-H. They do win there, they are 3-2 in their last 5.

Not addressing you but some others here who complain about Saban not getting the players up for AU:

IMO, the fire in their fans is far more intense than that in Bama fans. IMO, the gap between the "fire" in the 2 programs' fans is greater than the coaches and players. I.e., the Bama complainers need to look in the mirror. That's AU's non-football advantage. It's understandable to a point because they are the underdogs. To Bama fans it's just a relief to get by, so they are often relatively reserved. If something goes wrong they gasp, whereas, the AU fans just turn up the already intense volume until they lose hope, then they quit like others.​

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First time I've heard someone call our fan base reserved . Even with the relative qualifier.

81usaf92 said:

Then find me an IB outside of 94 and 71 in which the SECW was on the line between both schools in which we won. Then find me a time outside of 09 in which an undefeated Alabama team went to Lee Co and came out undefeated.

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You just can't seem to understand what I'm saying. First I acknowledged what you were saying re: a title on the line. What I was saying was that motivation/incentive/desire is never an issue with AU. Their greatest motivation is that Alabama is on the other sideline. So, they always have a lot on the line. The reason that they are more likely to win with a title on the line, which is what you are talking about, is because if they're in that position, they have a very good team.

BamaInBham said:

Again, we usually just do no communicate well. But I will try.

First of all CNS's Bama is 3-2 in the last 10 years just like I said. 2 of those wins were against 7-4 AU teams. I.e., obviously not great, they were teams Bama should have beaten, but IMO, they were not bad teams.

I never said J-H is not an advantage, in fact, IMO, their fans provide a definite advantage. What I said was that it "was not voodoo". I.e., that it was not Bama vs AU and some "cosmic" foe like some Bama fans imagine, like Bama just can't win in J-H. They do win there, they are 3-2 in their last 5.

Not addressing you but some others here who complain about Saban not getting the players up for AU:

IMO, the fire in their fans is far more intense than that in Bama fans. IMO, the gap between the "fire" in the 2 programs' fans is greater than the coaches and players. I.e., the Bama complainers need to look in the mirror. That's AU's non-football advantage. It's understandable to a point because they are the underdogs. To Bama fans it's just a relief to get by, so they are often relatively reserved. If something goes wrong they gasp, whereas, the AU fans just turn up the already intense volume until they lose hope, then they quit like others.​

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1) CNS is 3-3 at JHS at Bama. I know a lot of Bama fans try to not count 07 but to me it’s like Auburn saying “ we own the rivalry since 82” it’s just an arbitrary metric.

2) the “voodoo” aspect comes from the first 4 games down there. Seriously look at how many 12 men alignments, holds, and other crap they got away with in 89, 93, 95, and 97

3) CNS kinda does treat the Iron Bowl like just another game. The typical iron bowl seems to be an opening Auburn flurry of punches that mostly don’t land followed by a steady and inevitable Alabama steam roller to the finish line. I think the only two times I remember him treating like something more is 08 and 14.

4) I agree Bama fans are a lot quieter than Auburn fans. I went to the 15 game and I can tell you that it was louder than the 14 game. It was also a 6 win Auburn team and I can only imagine how loud it was in 13 and 17.

RollTide_HTTR said:

First time I've heard someone call our fan base reserved . Even with the relative qualifier.

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I understand - I did say often, not always :smile:. I should have said occasionally. Bama was far worse under Coach Bryant. Bama's fanbase lost much of its intensity. They were very gracious and kind to opponents. But that happens when you win that much for 25 years. Post-Bryant, there were some incredible Bama crowds like UGA '94, UGA '02 a loss, etc. But Bama fans sometimes get spooked vs AU. Many feel indignant that AU thinks they can win and do sometimes. Bama's program is far superior to AU's, no doubt, but they are good enough to be shown respect. Though some of their crazy fans are genuinely sick because of envy. Most are great.

GrayTide said:

Why do we still have to use excuses when we lose to auburn? They only have to score more points than us on IB game day.

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FIFY

Only at Alabama could we be defending national champions with a realistic shot for three in four and be complaining about the ink stain on the otherwise crisp, championship $100 bill........

selmaborntidefan said:

Only at Alabama could we be defending national champions with a realistic shot for three in four and be complaining about the ink stain on the otherwise crisp, championship $100 bill........

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Personally I’ll be willing to have the same result as last year every year on until they get within 2 of tieing the series if we get a NC in all of those years.

But the better team usually wins and there is only 1 true upset since 1956. But I still maintain if Auburn has a championship shot in front of them they usually beat us.

81usaf92 said:

1) CNS is 3-3 at JHS at Bama. I know a lot of Bama fans try to not count 07 but to me it’s like Auburn saying “ we own the rivalry since 82” it’s just an arbitrary metric.

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We agree here without reservation. At the same time, I DO think it provides a level of context.

81usaf92 said:

2) the “voodoo” aspect comes from the first 4 games down there. Seriously look at how many 12 men alignments, holds, and other crap they got away with in 89, 93, 95, and 97

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But they were also undeniably the better team in 3 of those 4 games; 1995 might be a bit debatable, a toss up.

The 1997 game was a joke that we were that close.