We were warned 30 years ago by NASA that global warming was ‘hitting us hard'

rjtide · Jun 21, 2018

RTR91 said:

Don’t judge. Just doing my part, man....Just doing my part.

cbi1972 · Jun 21, 2018

I'm warming up to electric vehicles. The instant torque and broad powerband of an electric motor is mind boggling.

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

cbi1972 said:
I'm warming up to electric vehicles. The instant torque and broad powerband of an electric motor is mind boggling.

Yup! Won't happen anytime soon, but I'd fork over whatever the price for an all-electric Land Cruiser. I'm on the waiting list for a Bollinger B1 - electric vehicles will be beastly off-road.

DzynKingRTR · Jun 21, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
This whole thing can blow up before I become a vegetarian. :smile:

I am doing my part by eating the animals whose flatulence is ruining the environment. Vegetarians are ruining this planet by eating plants that produce oxygen and eating my food's food.

UAH · Jun 21, 2018

While out walking I reflected on the discussion on global warming and the general feeling that we haven't done nearly enough.

I was responsible for Environmental Affairs for a large manufacturing company and while not being a technical person some of it did rub off.

Just for background the EPA was created under the Nixon Administration in 1970 and has been generally supported by both Republican and Democratic administrations up to the present. The Clean Air and Clean Water Acts that were passed and supported by both parties have been transformative in reducing industrial emissions from all sources.

It is not at all unusual for a large manufacturer today to have 0 solid waste going into a landfill and 0 VOC emissions going into the atmosphere. It is not an overstatement to say that every ounce of petroleum products, organic compounds and other chemicals that enter the manufacturing site must be accounted for and reported. Every gallon of water released is controlled and is monitored before release and at the treatment facility.

Today all coatings are water based. I believe it would be factual to say that there are no products manufactured in the US that were coated with a substance containing VOCs

We can debate if today's refrigerant is environmentally sound our not but $ millions were invested in developing compressors and refrigerant that could attain the Clean Air standard.

By the way the scrubbers required on coal fired powered plants by the Clean Air Act have dramatically reduced particulate emissions. It is still a dirty process that creates tremendous waste products that needs to be brought to an end

Have we done enough! No Has the EPA become overly bureaucratic? Absolutely

Where do we go from here?

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

UAH said:
While out walking I reflected on the discussion on global warming and the general feeling that we haven't done nearly enough.

I was responsible for Environmental Affairs for a large manufacturing company and while not being a technical person some of it did rub off.

Just for background the EPA was created under the Nixon Administration in 1970 and has been generally supported by both Republican and Democratic administrations up to the present. The Clean Air and Clean Water Acts that were passed and supported by both parties have been transformative in reducing industrial emissions from all sources.

It is not at all unusual for a large manufacturer today to have 0 solid waste going into a landfill and 0 VOC emissions going into the atmosphere. It is not an overstatement to say that every ounce of petroleum products, organic compounds and other chemicals that enter the manufacturing site must be accounted for and reported. Every gallon of water released is controlled and is monitored before release and at the treatment facility.

Today all coatings are water based. I believe it would be factual to say that there are no products manufactured in the US that were coated with a substance containing VOCs

We can debate if today's refrigerant is environmentally sound our not but $ millions were invested in developing compressors and refrigerant that could attain the Clean Air standard.

By the way the scrubbers required on coal fired powered plants by the Clean Air Act have dramatically reduced particulate emissions. It is still a dirty process that creates tremendous waste products that needs to be brought to an end

Have we done enough! No Has the EPA become overly bureaucratic? Absolutely

Where do we go from here?

there are a lot of little things that can be done that collectively would make a huge difference. unfortunately, lots of folks get defensive if someone, especially the government, tells them what to do.

rolltide_21 · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
And of course you guys cannot get past the arguing about which team is better, ignoring that fact that the few positives Obama accomplished were easily undone because he wasn't able to take advantage of democratic control of congress. They could have enacted massive changes in law and policy but wasted their political revenue on other things.

I'm only comparing the two to point our that neither has accomplished much. Yes the Dems actually tried to do something, and yes the repubs are actively trying to remove all of that progress. But that doesn't mean the Dems actually accomplished what they could have, what they should have, based on what they claim to believe.

Pretending otherwise is just defending your team while ignoring the obvious. Our leaders from both sides have failed us for more than three decades. Just drop the 'but the other team is worse' mentality for once.

Defending their “team” is what they do [emoji6]. I agree, while to a much lesser degree, the D’s have failed in this. The R’s, well, they’re just total morons (which insults morons everywhere). The two parties are not equally culpable on this issue but that doesn’t mean they haven’t let us down. Which is what I presume you’re trying to say.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

crimsonaudio · Jun 22, 2018

rolltide_21 said:
The two parties are not equally culpable on this issue but that doesn’t mean they haven’t let us down. Which is what I presume you’re trying to say.

Thank you for succinctly clarifying my point.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 22, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
And of course you guys cannot get past the arguing about which team is better, ignoring that fact that the few positives Obama accomplished were easily undone because he wasn't able to take advantage of democratic control of congress. They could have enacted massive changes in law and policy but wasted their political revenue on other things.

I seem to remember during Obama's first term he had his hands full trying to salvage the economy in the face of united and publicly stated opposition to whatever he might try to accomplish from the GOP.
And now you want to blame Obama for not passing more effective legislation?

He was too timid coming out of the gate, and tried to reason with unreasonable people much too long, and did waste some opportunity. But I understand how that was the situation he was faced with.

One party is willing and trying to improve the situation, while the other party has Scott Pruitt wrecking every environmental policy he can.

crimsonaudio · Jun 22, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
I seem to remember during Obama's first term he had his hands full trying to salvage the economy in the face of united and publicly stated opposition to whatever he might try to accomplish from the GOP.
And now you want to blame Obama for not passing more effective legislation?

Yeah, I do. He got Obamacare, but there was little focus early on in helping save the entire planet.

Again, do I hold him as culpable as the repubs? No. And I've said that over and over.

But to give him a pass when he had the opportunity to affect real change over something as important as climate change is partisanship. That game is precisely why we're where we are now.

Our elected leaders have let us down for three decades now, and Obama was part of the problem. He holds the least blame, imo, but he doesn't get a pass. That's the gig.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 22, 2018

CharminTide said:
Could Obama have done more? Sure. But he did pass the first ever federal limit on carbon pollution, helped forge an international climate agreement, directed his EPA to noticeably increase fuel efficiency standards for vehicles, and preserved 260 million acres for future generations by designating 19 national monuments for public use.

In contrast, Trump has rolled back Obama's anti-pollution legislation, withdrawn from that international climate agreement, reversed the heightened EPA standards, and begun selling our National Parks to miners.

There is absolutely no comparison, and to pretend otherwise is absurd.

Well put.

Those are not trifling things to be dismissed as inadequate. It was real progress.

UAH · Jun 22, 2018

rjtide said:
focusing on the individual level, what are we as individuals who are posting our thoughts on this thread doing to help the environment? how have we, as individuals in our daily lives, changed our habits to help Mother Earth? i am of the opinion that making individual changes will help the environment out much more than worrying about enacting macro gov't policies....since in this day and age its likely to alienate roughly 1/2 of the populace to such new policy(ies). as for me, driving slower, driving an electric vehicle, being vegetarian, planting trees in my yard, using energy efficient lighting in my house, installing smart thermometers in my house are my ways of doing what i need to do to make a small incremental positive change to my part of the world.

Thank you. There is work to be done at the macro level for sure but as you say that has less than a 50/50 chance of happening. To echo what you are saying about what we can do at an individual level:

Agriculture is largely unregulated and controversial in terms of chemical usage and the monopoly for GMO seed development held by Monsanto. A huge percentage of all agricultural chemical and energy use is directed at growing corn and soy beans for cattle, pork and poultry production. The supply chain of raising animals for human consumption is now the largest global contributor to greenhouse gas emissions and impact on water quality by a wide margin.

There are many other items we can do as individuals but when we all light up our grills and bring out the meat this weekend make sure to look in the mirror. The person you see is an individual contributor to global warming!

Don't blame it on the Pubs or the Dems. The problem is us!

NationalTitles18 · Jun 22, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Yeah, I do. He got Obamacare, but there was little focus early on in helping save the entire planet.

Again, do I hold him as culpable as the repubs? No. And I've said that over and over.

But to give him a pass when he had the opportunity to affect real change over something as important as climate change is partisanship. That game is precisely why we're where we are now.

Our elected leaders have let us down for three decades now, and Obama was part of the problem. He holds the least blame, imo, but he doesn't get a pass. That's the gig.

Don't you know that your only choice is to denigrate one party and make excuses for the other? You have a binary choice. Thinking for yourself is silly. You have to wear a uniform or else we don't know who to shoot at, which means we shoot at people not wearing uniforms.

92tide · Jun 22, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
Don't you know that your only choice is to denigrate one party and make excuses for the other? You have a binary choice. Thinking for yourself is silly. You have to wear a uniform or else we don't know who to shoot at, which means we shoot at people not wearing uniforms.

you must wear the ribbon

NationalTitles18 · Jun 22, 2018

92tide said:
you must wear the ribbon

Admitting to ignorance on this one. Ribbon?

92tide · Jun 22, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
Admitting to ignorance on this one. Ribbon?

it's from seinfeld. kramer wouldn't wear the red ribbon for the aids walk

MattinBama · Jun 22, 2018

Nm, 92 beat me.

NationalTitles18 · Jun 22, 2018

92tide said:
it's from seinfeld. kramer wouldn't wear the red ribbon for the aids walk

Just found that on youtube before you posted. Good stuff. I laughed.

92tide · Jun 25, 2018

NOAA’s Research Just Shifted from Climate Change to “Empowering the Economy” and “National Security”

One of the country’s major federal science agencies seems to have been forced to abandon climate change research as a key organizational focus, the New York Times revealed this week. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Organization is responsible for managing the National Weather Service and using its network of satellites to forecast the effects of climate change. Rather than concentrate on resiliency efforts, NOAA is now charged with prioritizing “a safe, secure and growing economy empowered through accurate, reliable and timely environmental information,” according to a slideshow presented by the agency’s acting director at a Department of Commerce meeting.

CajunCrimson · Jun 25, 2018

rolltide_21 said:
Defending their “team” is what they do [emoji6]. I agree, while to a much lesser degree, the D’s have failed in this. The R’s, well, they’re just total morons (which insults morons everywhere). The two parties are not equally culpable on this issue but that doesn’t mean they haven’t let us down. Which is what I presume you’re trying to say.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The republicans aren't morons or ignorant. They simply are satisfying the expectations of those that put them into office

Ditto for the Dems. Most politicians are quite smart and informed. They are just not interested in the future of the planet. They are interested in lining their pockets

This isn't an issue of ignorance. It's what it's been since WW2. It's corruption

We were warned 30 years ago by NASA that global warming was ‘hitting us hard'

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