We were warned 30 years ago by NASA that global warming was ‘hitting us hard'

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

Over 30 years — the time period climate scientists often use in their studies in order to minimise natural weather variations — the world’s annual temperature has warmed 0.54 degrees Celsius, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. And the temperature in the United States has gone up even more — nearly 0.85 degrees.

“The biggest change over the last 30 years, which is most of my life, is that we’re no longer thinking just about the future,” said Kathie Dello, a climate scientist at Oregon State University in Corvallis. “Climate change is here, it’s now and it’s hitting us hard from all sides.”

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...m/news-story/560a43851acefad552c7a50019c74a9a

Chukker Veteran · Jun 21, 2018

When I finished at the University in '76 I had the first minor offered in environmental studies. They went on to offer a major in it as well.

All this skepticism of climate change goes counter to my education and it has been infuriating since then to see a political party glorify ignorance and the discrediting of science.

Of all the calamities we are faced with today, this is the Big Kohuna in my opinion.

CharminTide · Jun 21, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
When I finished at the University in '76 I had the first minor offered in environmental studies. They went on to offer a major in it as well.

All this skepticism of climate change goes counter to my education and it has been infuriating since then to see a political party glorify ignorance and the discrediting of science.

Of all the calamities we are faced with today, this is the Big Kohuna in my opinion.

There's a well-established culture of ignorance in this country, rooted primarily in the political right. Spend enough years denigrating experts as Ivory Tower liberal elites, and you'll eventually start to politicize facts. I wouldn't have an issue if their ignorance only affected themselves, but we will all suffer for it.

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

CharminTide said:
There's a well-established culture of ignorance in this country, rooted primarily in the political right. Spend enough years denigrating experts as Ivory Tower liberal elites, and you'll eventually start to politicize facts. I wouldn't have an issue if their ignorance only affected themselves, but we will all suffer for it.

We aim to pull evil up by the root!
Before it chokes out the flower of
our culture'n heritage! And our women!
Let's not forget those ladies, y'all,
lookin' to us for p'tection! From
darkies! From Jews! From Papists!
And from all those smart-arse folk
say we come descended from the
monkeys! That's not my culture'n
heritage!

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

To be fair, we've had 30 years, 16 of which were under Presidents with a D beside their name who both had two yeas of congressional control, yet little has been done. Yes, most of those still denying climate change are on the right, but the time to act was long ago and neither party has done much to actually address the issue.

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
To be fair, we've had 30 years, 16 of which were under Presidents with a D beside their name who both had two yeas of congressional control, yet little has been done. Yes, most of those still denying climate change are on the right, but the time to act was long ago and neither party has done much to actually address the issue.

the right has been actively undoing the little bit that was able to get done under obama.

CharminTide · Jun 21, 2018

92tide said:
the right has been actively undoing the little bit that was able to get done under obama.

Yep, and many of those on the right who do accept climate change seem to also adopt a helplessness about the issue. I continually hear the arguments -- here and elsewhere -- that, since there is no magic solution to immediately reverse all the damage we've caused, there must be no benefit in slowing the warming process if it causes any economic strain to person or country. Phrased another way, this expresses a somewhat selfish sentiment: "Why should I suffer now so that my kids might feel less harm?"

Thanks, Boomers.

CharminTide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
To be fair, we've had 30 years, 16 of which were under Presidents with a D beside their name who both had two yeas of congressional control, yet little has been done. Yes, most of those still denying climate change are on the right, but the time to act was long ago and neither party has done much to actually address the issue.

Certainly, more could have been done by both sides. But I'm less interested in pointing fingers at politicians of the past, and more interested in calling out those who are actively preventing us from confronting this issue today. And in 2018, it's clear that the Republican party carries the blame for our retreat from this issue.

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

92tide said:
the right has been actively undoing the little bit that was able to get done under obama.

But when Obama had a democratic congress for two years, what did he accomplish? Not much, wrt climate change.

Again, not suggesting the repubs aren't behind the curve here, but this thread almost immediately became a bash-the-right party, despite the fact that the left had opportunities to make substantial headway and failed to do much of anything.

Our elected officials from both parties, who had all this information for decades, have done previous little.

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
But when Obama had a democratic congress for two years, what did he accomplish? Not much, wrt climate change.

Again, not suggesting the repubs aren't behind the curve here, but this thread almost immediately became a bash-the-right party, despite the fact that the left had opportunities to make substantial headway and failed to do much of anything.

Our elected officials from both parties, who had all this information for decades, have done previous little.

don't try to "both sides are the same" this. that is completely disingenuous.

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

a list of some of the stuff done during obama's tenure

obama whitehouse archives

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

92tide said:
don't try to "both sides are the same" this. that is completely disingenuous.

Did you even read what I posted? That's a weak straw man.

List off the serious legislation that Dems enacted while they had total control of the executive and legislative branches. There's precious little. They can talk about it all day, but when it came to doing something, they refused. Sure, they admit it's an issue while most of the repubs ignore it or claim it's false, but if neither party accomplishes anything, then the results are the same.

CharminTide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
But when Obama had a democratic congress for two years, what did he accomplish? Not much, wrt climate change.

Again, not suggesting the repubs aren't behind the curve here, but this thread almost immediately became a bash-the-right party, despite the fact that the left had opportunities to make substantial headway and failed to do much of anything.

Our elected officials from both parties, who had all this information for decades, have done previous little.

Could Obama have done more? Sure. But he did pass the first ever federal limit on carbon pollution, helped forge an international climate agreement, directed his EPA to noticeably increase fuel efficiency standards for vehicles, and preserved 260 million acres for future generations by designating 19 national monuments for public use.

In contrast, Trump has rolled back Obama's anti-pollution legislation, withdrawn from that international climate agreement, reversed the heightened EPA standards, and begun selling our National Parks to miners.

There is absolutely no comparison, and to pretend otherwise is absurd.

Bamabuzzard · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
But when Obama had a democratic congress for two years, what did he accomplish? Not much, wrt climate change.

Again, not suggesting the repubs aren't behind the curve here, but this thread almost immediately became a bash-the-right party, despite the fact that the left had opportunities to make substantial headway and failed to do much of anything.

Our elected officials from both parties, who had all this information for decades, have done previous little.

And here's why I think this is the case. Because my guess is (I say "guess" because I'm not a scientist or climate expert) the necessary changes that would need to be made in our society to make a material dent in the problem. Would more than likely remove a lot of everyday conveniences. I know politicians are well known for passing laws that they are exempt from, while the rest of the country has to eat it. But something of this magnitude would be something they themselves couldn't escape from.

To what degree should the changes be to actually "fix" or greatly slow down global warming? Should we go back to horse and wagon? Or install technology and systems on vehicles that may make them too expensive for the average Joe? Require factories to adhere to regulations that would greatly change their end price to the consumer? Once again, making the price of the end product too expensive for the average person to afford. I'm just shooting from the hip, and I'm sure the ripple effect of true difference making change is a lot more than I'm listing.

But you're right CA, there have been more than enough opportunities for over 30 years for both parties to do something material to promote change. But they don't. Why?

"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to go now."

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Did you even read what I posted? That's a weak straw man.

List off the serious legislation that Dems enacted while they had total control of the executive and legislative branches. There's precious little. They can talk about it all day, but when it came to doing something, they refused. Sure, they admit it's an issue while most of the repubs ignore it or claim it's false, but if neither party accomplishes anything, then the results are the same.

yes i did.

and this

but the time to act was long ago and neither party has done much to actually address the issue.

is what i am referring to

from above

obama whitehouse archives

crimsonaudio · Jun 21, 2018

CharminTide said:
Could Obama have done more? Sure. But he did pass the first ever federal limit on carbon pollution, helped forge an international climate agreement, directed his EPA to noticeably increase fuel efficiency standards for vehicles, and preserved 260 million acres for future generations by designating 19 national monuments for public use.

In contrast, Trump has rolled back Obama's anti-pollution legislation, withdrawn from that international climate agreement, reversed the heightened EPA standards, and begun selling our National Parks to miners.

There is absolutely no comparison, and to pretend otherwise is absurd.

And of course you guys cannot get past the arguing about which team is better, ignoring that fact that the few positives Obama accomplished were easily undone because he wasn't able to take advantage of democratic control of congress. They could have enacted massive changes in law and policy but wasted their political revenue on other things.

I'm only comparing the two to point our that neither has accomplished much. Yes the Dems actually tried to do something, and yes the repubs are actively trying to remove all of that progress. But that doesn't mean the Dems actually accomplished what they could have, what they should have, based on what they claim to believe.

Pretending otherwise is just defending your team while ignoring the obvious. Our leaders from both sides have failed us for more than three decades. Just drop the 'but the other team is worse' mentality for once.

RollTide_HTTR · Jun 21, 2018

Obama's biggest failure on climate change was that most of what he did is so easily undone. He didn't do very much in his first term for climate change but given the economic climate that is somewhat understandable. He did a ton of good in his 2nd term but again, a lot of that has already been undone by Trump.

tide power fan · Jun 21, 2018

Population growth Cars, AC's, personal airplanes etc.

92tide · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
And of course you guys cannot get past the arguing about which team is better, ignoring that fact that the few positives Obama accomplished were easily undone because he wasn't able to take advantage of democratic control of congress. They could have enacted massive changes in law and policy but wasted their political revenue on other things.

I'm only comparing the two to point our that neither has accomplished much. Yes the Dems actually tried to do something, and yes the repubs are actively trying to remove all of that progress. But that doesn't mean the Dems actually accomplished what they could have, what they should have, based on what they claim to believe.

Pretending otherwise is just defending your team while ignoring the obvious. Our leaders from both sides have failed us for more than three decades. Just drop the 'but the other team is worse' mentality for once.

the only thing i am defending is science.

one "team" doesn't even acknowledge this is a problem and has spent the past 15-20 years pushing industry funded propaganda as fact. which was eagerly spread here as well as other places. maybe we should bring up all of those "global warming is the biggest science scandal ever" and ask the question there to get a better answer.

the other "team" acknowledges it is a problem and has at least attempted to do something about it. there were quite a lot of actions taken on climate change during obama's term. but hey, they didn't do everything so...

CharminTide · Jun 21, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
To what degree should the changes be to actually "fix" or greatly slow down global warming? Should we go back to horse and wagon? Or install technology and systems on vehicles that may make them too expensive for the average Joe? Require factories to adhere to regulations that would greatly change their end price to the consumer? Once again, making the price of the end product too expensive for the average person to afford. I'm just shooting from the hip, and I'm sure the ripple effect of true difference making change is a lot more than I'm listing.

Well, we had limits on industrial pollution and were just fine. The GOP removed those, and I didn't see a dramatic decrease in the price of... well, anything. We also had impressive federal investment in green energy research and had developed the most promising renewables industry in the world, until Trump tried to cut these (fortunately private investment persists). We also had tax subsidies for electric vehicles, and I see them on the road everyday,

I'm not saying that these steps are sufficient to achieve what we need, but I am trying to illustrate that changes can be made and investment can be incentivized in ways that don't upend civilization.

We were warned 30 years ago by NASA that global warming was ‘hitting us hard'

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