Civility

Bamabuzzard · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
hey now, this is non-sports, not the strip

occasionally i am able to restrain the snark with my wife. lucky for me, she is also a smart arse.

I think I'm just going to stop trying to withhold the snark and sarcasm and just urinate on the baseboards. That'll show her.

chanson78 · Jun 28, 2018

Bamabuzzard said:
I think I'm just going to stop trying to withhold the snark and sarcasm and just urinate on the baseboards. That'll show her.

Make sure you eat asparagus first.

jthomas666 · Jun 28, 2018

Bazza said:
OK here's an analogy that may represent what I think my friend (and I) was saying......

Let's say the University of Alabama's president (along with it's board of directors) decides to limit the number of scholarships to those coming in from out of state.

The next day you see Coach Saban in a restaurant.

Assuming you disagreed with this change in policy by the university......

Would you verbally assault Coach Saban because he's employed by the college at a high ranking position?

May not be exactly apples to apples but perhaps close enough to make the point that not everyone associated with a particular institution deserves to be harassed when you disagree with a particular change in policy - or how it's enforced.

And how does this differ from what I said? Coach Saban is a representative of the University--not the university administration. Furthermore, he has no part in setting university scholarship policy. That's a far cry from Neilsen and Sanders, both of whom have been very public and vocal defenders of the administration's policies.

92tide · Jun 28, 2018

Bazza said:
I had someone say to me "it wouldn't matter" when asked to clarify their statement when they responded to one of my posts where I expressed an opinion.

They were the one who challenged my opinion. Not the other way around.

I responded by saying something to the effect "OK.....that's fine."

Sure....I could have escalated things. But what would be the point.

Asked and answered as they say in court.

We're moving on.......

i will believe that when i see it.

eta: since i was directly called out.

when i said it didn't matter it is because you asked me to provide one example of race-baiting by trump and trump supporters. there have been weekly examples in the past 18 months or so (and even before that) that are on this board and in threads in which you are an active participant. and surprise, it hasn't mattered.

drwho · Jun 28, 2018

Bazza said:
Those who say the lack of civility is a byproduct of the current administration are sadly just plain wrong.

Lack of civility was there before the current administration.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
i will believe that when i see it.

eta: since i was directly called out.

when i said it didn't matter it is because you asked me to provide one example of race-baiting by trump and trump supporters. there have been weekly examples in the past 18 months or so (and even before that) that are on this board and in threads in which you are an active participant. and surprise, it hasn't mattered.

Thank you.

I've often thought that failing to acknowledge something that is painfully obvious is just another version of passive aggression, instead of snark or sarcasm.

MattinBama · Jun 28, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
Thank you.

I've often thought that failing to acknowledge something that is painfully obvious is just another version of passive aggression, instead of snark or sarcasm.

I still vividly remember the entire avoidance of a discussion with the "but I'm only talking about Congress" excuse even though there were direct parallels to the discussion to Trump. At a certain point you just give up on trying to have a meaningful discussion with some posters because you start to realize it's pointless if they're not even going to acknowledge the points you're making. That's where snark starts to come in.

As to the whole pack mentality thing. I have never thought to myself "oh boy here's a chance to jump in on this guy!" I usually just have something I would like to say, so I say it regardless of whether other people have responded or are going to respond later. If a post pops up that triggers responses from multiple people that's not necessarily a pack mentality at play. It's just multiple individuals that want to have a say on it. Some people here act like we have a Libtard Signal we shine into the sky and all come running to pounce.

bama_wayne1 · Jun 28, 2018

rolltide_21 said:
I would add a couple other aspects which keep NS from having a “civil” discussion. First there is the pack mentality and attacking one who disagrees with them. You disagree with one and here comes 2-3 more with snark, innuendo, and passive aggressive comments. It turns into three pages of unrelated, unreadable posts attacking an individual. I understand having thick skin and all but it’s hard to have a discussion when that is going on in the thread. There have been times when I felt sorry for a poster or two due to this. A pack mentality makes a civilized discussion almost impossible.

Second, regarding snark and passive aggressive statements, Bamabuzzard summed it up well in another thread- there’s a lot of courage which comes from sitting behind a keyboard. The “distance” of the internet allows someone to say things they would never directly say to another in person.

Sorry for the rant.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the key to existing in this environment is to be nice and state your opinion/belief while not giving all the snarky commentors any power.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 28, 2018

MattinBama said:
I still vividly remember the entire avoidance of a discussion with the "but I'm only talking about Congress" excuse even though there were direct parallels to the discussion to Trump. At a certain point you just give up on trying to have a meaningful discussion with some posters because you start to realize it's pointless if they're not even going to acknowledge the points you're making. That's where snark starts to come in.

As to the whole pack mentality thing. I have never thought to myself "oh boy here's a chance to jump in on this guy!" I usually just have something I would like to say, so I say it regardless of whether other people have responded or are going to respond later. If a post pops up that triggers responses from multiple people that's not necessarily a pack mentality at play. It's just multiple individuals that want to have a say on it. Some people here act like we have a Libtard Signal we shine into the sky and all come running to pounce.

In my humble opinion, when someone refuses to acknowledge something as basic as "the sky is blue" they often know their refusal to recognize facts is maddening...but they have the fallback position that they just don't see it.

I think of that approach as a stiletto version of civility.

92tide · Jun 28, 2018

MattinBama said:
I still vividly remember the entire avoidance of a discussion with the "but I'm only talking about Congress" excuse even though there were direct parallels to the discussion to Trump. At a certain point you just give up on trying to have a meaningful discussion with some posters because you start to realize it's pointless if they're not even going to acknowledge the points you're making. That's where snark starts to come in.

As to the whole pack mentality thing. I have never thought to myself "oh boy here's a chance to jump in on this guy!" I usually just have something I would like to say, so I say it regardless of whether other people have responded or are going to respond later. If a post pops up that triggers responses from multiple people that's not necessarily a pack mentality at play. It's just multiple individuals that want to have a say on it. Some people here act like we have a Libtard Signal we shine into the sky and all come running to pounce.

wait, what signal have i been responding to?

Intl.Aperture · Jun 28, 2018

Chukker Veteran said:
In my humble opinion, when someone refuses to acknowledge something as basic as "the sky is blue" they often know their refusal to recognize facts is maddening...but they have the fallback position that they just don't see it.

I think of that approach as a stiletto version of civility.

To me it's petty gamesmanship and just tells me their goal is not to have a discussion. So I just stop engaging at that point. It's essentially trolling and is just as uncivil as some of the other tactics discussed.

AlexanderFan · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
but what is happening these days is not a "difference of political persuasion" it is really bad people doing really bad things and getting a lot of support for doing it. asking folks to be "civil" is akin to asking them to be quiet and not make you uncomfortable. i thought dr. king summed it up well in the jail letter.

Here it is in a nutshell: it's not me, it's you. Suddenly every person of the liberal persuasion is interested in trade deficits and government inefficiency and all the nonsense that went on unchecked under the Obama administration. It must be stopped.

Don't think for one second it wasn't happening eight years ago from the other side as well.

Here's the thing: my job has me trapped in a ten by ten cell with limited outside contact for twelve hours a day. People will NEVER think exactly alike. Our paths are too different, even in the same demographic groups. The best we can hope for in society is that these paths converge on the really important issues, and that we leave each other alone when it comes to the small stuff.

But it's not gonna happen.

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92tide · Jun 28, 2018

AlexanderFan said:
Here it is in a nutshell: it's not me, it's you. Suddenly every person of the liberal persuasion is interested in trade deficits and government inefficiency and all the nonsense that went on unchecked under the Obama administration. It must be stopped.

Don't think for one second it wasn't happening eight years ago from the other side as well.

Here's the thing: my job has me trapped in a ten by ten cell with limited outside contact for twelve hours a day. People will NEVER think exactly alike. Our paths are too different, even in the same demographic groups. The best we can hope for in society is that these paths converge on the really important issues, and that we leave each other alone when it comes to the small stuff.

But it's not gonna happen.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i am not referring to trade deficits and government inefficiency when i say really bad people doing really bad things. i am referring to brazen white nationalism and bigotry and inhumane immigration policies and a wanton and willful destruction of our trade and military alliances. and it's not just folks of the liberal persuasion concerned about these things.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
i am not referring to trade deficits and government inefficiency when i say really bad people doing really bad things. i am referring to brazen white nationalism and bigotry and inhumane immigration policies and a wanton and willful destruction of our trade and military alliances. and it's not just folks of the liberal persuasion concerned about these things.

That is well put, in my opinion.

A snarky version of expressing the same point would be a reminder about how upset people got over Obama's tan suit.

rolltide_21 · Jun 28, 2018

chanson78 said:
While this may not be a popular idea, there are two parties to any conversation. There seems to be a lot of talk about civility in responding to posts. I think many confuse being challenged with combative or uncivilized. There are plenty of times where there have been drive by posts that when replies have asked for either more details or supporting information, the original poster shrugs and says “hey it’s just an opinion, don’t attack me.”

Any discussion has one or more parties. Expecting to be able to say whatever and not be challenged when on a discussion board seems just as uncivil as drive by snark responses.

I have no problem with being challenged or even a snarky comment. I’m a snarky person (in person not so much here). My first sentence was probably me smarting off [emoji3]. Regarding the second issue, being challenged helps you grow and learn. So it’s beneficial. I do think it goes overboard and even one of mods has taken notice in a post above regarding ad hominem responses and board rules.

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rolltide_21 · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
i am not referring to trade deficits and government inefficiency when i say really bad people doing really bad things. i am referring to brazen white nationalism and bigotry and inhumane immigration policies and a wanton and willful destruction of our trade and military alliances. and it's not just folks of the liberal persuasion concerned about these things.

But you missed the part about it being Obama’s fault. Thanks Obama! [emoji3].

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AlexanderFan · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
i am not referring to trade deficits and government inefficiency when i say really bad people doing really bad things. i am referring to brazen white nationalism and bigotry and inhumane immigration policies and a wanton and willful destruction of our trade and military alliances. and it's not just folks of the liberal persuasion concerned about these things.

And where were you when businesses were laying off to cover Obamacare costs? Where were you when giant government was forcing small businesses out? Where was your sense of morality then? The Obama administration provided opportunities for your sense of morality, yet or remained dormant for eight years. We've already been over the attempted backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government (to which hail the Redskins decided that lying to the American people is ok in context.) The only reason you give a damn about the morality of the people in charge is because they aren't the people you want in charge. Hiding under the guise of righteousness.

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RollTide_HTTR · Jun 28, 2018

AlexanderFan said:
And where were you when businesses were laying off to cover Obamacare costs? Where were you when giant government was forcing small businesses out? Where was your sense of morality then? The Obama administration provided opportunities for your sense of morality, yet or remained dormant for eight years. We've already been over the attempted backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government (to which hail the Redskins decided that lying to the American people is ok in context.) The only reason you give a damn about the morality of the people in charge is because they aren't the people you want in charge. Hiding under the guise of righteousness.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's not at all what happened...

For the record this is where civility starts to unravel. We are at a point where people see the world so differently and can't even agree on if an apple is an apple.

jthomas666 · Jun 28, 2018

AlexanderFan said:
And where were you when businesses were laying off to cover Obamacare costs? Where were you when giant government was forcing small businesses out? Where was your sense of morality then? The Obama administration provided opportunities for your sense of morality, yet or remained dormant for eight years. We've already been over the attempted backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government (to which hail the Redskins decided that lying to the American people is ok in context.) The only reason you give a damn about the morality of the people in charge is because they aren't the people you want in charge. Hiding under the guise of righteousness.

Here's the difference: With Obamacare, as with Nafta--yes, some people were going to get hurt, but it was better for the country in the long run. White nationalism is in no way good for the nation. Antagonizing all of our allies isn't good for the nation.

That's the point 92 is making--at some point, it's no longer a question of politics.

Chukker Veteran · Jun 28, 2018

92tide said:
i am not referring to trade deficits and government inefficiency when i say really bad people doing really bad things. i am referring to brazen white nationalism and bigotry and inhumane immigration policies and a wanton and willful destruction of our trade and military alliances. and it's not just folks of the liberal persuasion concerned about these things.

I see your post hit a nerve. From civility to insults in just a few short posts. I guess someone demonstrating the opposite of civility is one way of participating.

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