Civility

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Bamabuzzard

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That's not at all what happened...

For the record this is where civility starts to unravel. We are at a point where people see the world so differently and can't even agree on if an apple is an apple.
This is very true and actually applies to dang near every facet of life, not just "polly-ticks" and/or religion. I can vouch that it even applies in 7-8 yr old coach pitch baseball. My middle son currently is playing All Stars. It's a team of players from different teams within his division who they played against during the year. They pick the one or two best from each team and make one team to go play other All Star teams.

We had a situation at practice where around ten people saw the exact same thing happen and play out. Yet there were four to five different versions and interpretations of what happened. Even though we all were sitting there together, watching it happen, in real time at the same time. People are amazing creatures.
 
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CajunCrimson

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That's not at all what happened...

For the record this is where civility starts to unravel. We are at a point where people see the world so differently and can't even agree on if an apple is an apple.
I don't think ya'll are disagreeing on if an apple is an apple. I think it's more of, is a tomato a fruit or a vegetable, or a demeaning name given to a big breasted woman? ;)
 
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CajunCrimson

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This is very true and actually applies to dang near every facet of life, not just "polly-ticks" and/or religion. I can vouch that it even applies in 7-8 yr old coach pitch baseball. My middle son currently is playing All Stars. It's a team of players from different teams within his division that they played against during the year. They pick the one or two best from each team and make one team to go play other All Star teams.

We had a situation at practice where around ten people saw the exact same thing happen and play out. Yet there were four to five different versions and interpretations of what happened. Even though we all sat there and watched it happen, in real time at the same time. People are amazing creatures.
Hey, we all saw the retirement of an 81 year old man who served the country for decades in a variety of roles totally wreck people's day.....

Some said, "thanks". Some said "you suck". Some said "Trumps sucks". Some said "he should stay until he dies". Some said, "glad he's leaving now". Some said "why are you leaving now?"

I think honestly it's always been this way -- now everyone thinks their opinion has to be shared on everything.....(inclusive).....

I blame Al Gore -- had he not invented the internet, none of this would be happening at all
 

92tide

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And where were you when businesses were laying off to cover Obamacare costs? Where were you when giant government was forcing small businesses out? Where was your sense of morality then? The Obama administration provided opportunities for your sense of morality, yet or remained dormant for eight years. We've already been over the attempted backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government (to which hail the Redskins decided that lying to the American people is ok in context.) The only reason you give a damn about the morality of the people in charge is because they aren't the people you want in charge. Hiding under the guise of righteousness.


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i was working in a small business that is still chugging along while being able to cover 2 major heart surgeries and a brain operation for our families that i wouldn't have been able to cover without obamacare.
 
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92tide

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I see your post hit a nerve. From civility to insults in just a few short posts. I guess someone demonstrating the opposite of civility is one way of participating.

i am beginning to get the feeling that civility (in the context of it's current iteration) = not being properly deferential to white conservatives.
 

AlexanderFan

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That's not at all what happened...

For the record this is where civility starts to unravel. We are at a point where people see the world so differently and can't even agree on if an apple is an apple.


Care to crab walk out of that one?

Paraphrasing, all politicians lie and we have to be ok with that, it's the context in which those lies happen.



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bama_wayne1

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Here's the difference: With Obamacare, as with Nafta--yes, some people were going to get hurt, but it was better for the country in the long run. White nationalism is in no way good for the nation. Antagonizing all of our allies isn't good for the nation.

That's the point 92 is making--at some point, it's no longer a question of politics.
How could Nationalistic view of the United States be "White" Nationalism? Aren't we multi-racial?
 

Bazza

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Lack of civility was there before the current administration.
We've had it ever since I can remember going back at least to the Vietnam War.

The evolution of the Internet has enhanced everything in various ways....some good and some bad but all of it in ways that it changed how we treat one another, IMHO.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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Care to crab walk out of that one?

Paraphrasing, all politicians lie and we have to be ok with that, it's the context in which those lies happen.

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I mean no. Paraphrasing requires you don't completely change what someone said. I didn't say it was ok that all politicians lie, just that they all do and we are stuck with it for now. Unless you have some plan to stop lying across the world then yes we have to live with it. And we have to pick the battles that we fight based partially on how egregious a lie is or how often said politician lies. I said that I wouldn't freak out if the same thing happened with Trump and then gave my reasons.

And I wasn't just referring to what I said. I was also referring to the idea that Obama tried "backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government" because that never happened.
 
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MattinBama

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http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-civility-20180625-story.html

This is an old pattern and a discreditable (and discredited) one. The idea seems to be that if the critics would just air their views politely and tactfully, their targets would suddenly awaken to the error of their ways. All Americans would then march hand-in-hand toward a nirvana of permanent comity.

The truth is that, as urged upon critics by their targets, pleas for “civility” are a fraud. As aired by members of the critical camp themselves, the pleas are a trap. More often than not, the result is to blunt the impact of the critique and enfeeble the opposition. That is, of course, what the targets hope for.

...

Let’s examine the most recent case in which “civility” has been counseled: The request by the owner of the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Va., that White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders leave the premises.

...

Wilkinson and Sanders both say the 86-ing was handled politely and in private. Sanders left quietly.

The next day, however, she confirmed the episode in a tweet, in which she named the restaurant, gave its location, and took a sidelong swipe at Wilkinson. For some reason, many progressives seem to think this shows that Sanders dealt with the episode with “class.”

They must have a different definition of “class” from my own. The tweet was, in actuality, a masterpiece of crass passive-aggressiveness. Sanders had to know that her tweet would focus immense attention on a business that had tried to handle a delicate situation quietly, subjecting it to attack on social media, if not worse, by Sanders’ own supporters.

Let’s not overlook that Sanders ended her tweet by asserting that she always does her best “to treat people, including those I disagree with, respectfully.” At a press briefing nine days earlier, it might be remembered, she answered a question from CNN’s Jim Acosta with the ostensibly respectful words, “I know it’s hard for you to understand even short sentences.”

Sanders’ father, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, chimed in this weekend with his own gloss on the restaurant incident: “Bigotry,” he wrote. “On the menu at Red Hen Restaurant in Lexington VA. Or you can ask for the ‘Hate Plate.’”

That was a mere three hours after Huckabee had tweeted a photograph of alleged Mexican gang members with the words, “Nancy Pelosi introduces her campaign committee for the take back of the House.”

See how this works?
 

92tide

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so is pointing out that these pleas for civility are for the most part not being made in good faith un-civil?

this has always been the m.o. from talk radio, fox, etc.

it's also part of a classic abuse technique, which surprise, includes making oneself the "real victim" of abuse link

DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation.
 
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AlexanderFan

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I mean no. Paraphrasing requires you don't completely change what someone said. I didn't say it was ok that all politicians lie, just that they all do and we are stuck with it for now. Unless you have some plan to stop lying across the world then yes we have to live with it. And we have to pick the battles that we fight based partially on how egregious a lie is or how often said politician lies. I said that I wouldn't freak out if the same thing happened with Trump and then gave my reasons.

And I wasn't just referring to what I said. I was also referring to the idea that Obama tried "backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear development by our government" because that never happened.
So what exactly would you call trying to go around the sanctions imposed to allow Iran access to five billion dollars, and the only reason it didn't happen was the banks involved balked at violating the sanctions, all the while the administration lied about what it was doing?

The point is that nobody on either side cares that politicians lie as long as it's their side in the position of power to do the lying.


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RollTide_HTTR

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So what exactly would you call trying to go around the sanctions imposed to allow Iran access to five billion dollars, and the only reason it didn't happen was the banks involved balked at violating the sanctions, all the while the administration lied about what it was doing?

The point is that nobody on either side cares that politicians lie as long as it's their side in the position of power to do the lying.


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First, we were not financing anyone. Iran had their money in a currency that was hard to convert. Obama tried to get US banks to help Iran convert that money(which is illegal). That money was Iran's money that we had agreed to let them have access to as part of the nuclear deal. So, in Obama's mind one of the ways to carry out that deal in spirit was to help Iran access that money. But as you said banks refused and Iran still found a way to convert it.

So, Obama lied about doing something that never ended up happening and wouldn't have made a significant difference. I would hardly call that backdoor financing of Iran's nuclear program...
 
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