QB transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has changed'

RedWave

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

Serious question because I'm curious, is this really true? Or will more QBs transferring allow smaller schools to have more talent at that position. It seems to me that if everyone was transferring in order to play then more schools would have QBs not fewer. Blake Barnett ending up at USF.

Again, not really arguing one side more of just curious about what the impacts of QB transfers have been. Would be interesting to see if anyone has tracked it.
I think this is very much of a "we don't know yet" situation. You could see many backups for top programs transfer out to 'lesser" programs just to get PT, or we could see top QB's of lesser programs move up to bigger programs needing just that one QB to top them off. I am not a fan of the whole plan at all, but I will be interested to see how this plays out.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

There's no doubt the landscape has changed due to a cultural shift in society's mindset towards team sports. Used to we taught our kids to prioritize things of importance (within the sports realm) as follows:

1.Team
2.Teammates
3.Self

That is no longer the case. It actually has flip flopped. Self comes first and the betterment of the team comes last. But it didn't start once they became a big time D1 athlete. Oh no, it started in Wee-Ball when if "Junior" didn't play the position "Mommy & Daddy" thought he should play. They raised seven kinds of hell and made the coaches' lives miserable or took their ball and went and started another team where now "Junior's" daddy is the head coach and he's guaranteed to play QB, Shortstop or Point guard. It's called "Daddy Ball". I see it all the time.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

There's no doubt the landscape has changed due to a cultural shift in society's mindset towards team sports. Used to we taught our kids to prioritize things of importance (within the sports realm) as follows:

1.Team
2.Teammates
3.Self

That is no longer the case. It actually has flip flopped. Self comes first and the betterment of the team comes last. But it didn't start once they became a big time D1 athlete. Oh no, it started in Wee-Ball when if "Junior" didn't play the position "Mommy & Daddy" thought he should play. They raised seven kinds of hell and made the coaches' lives miserable or took their ball and went and started another team where now "Junior's" daddy is the head coach and he's guaranteed to play QB, Shortstop or Point guard. It's called "Daddy Ball". I see it all the time.
I don't disagree that this has happened to an extent. But I think there can be more nuance. You can look out for yourself and also your team. Put your team first in the proper situations but when it comes down to it there are times where you have to put yourself first IMO.
 

BamaMoon

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

There's no doubt the landscape has changed due to a cultural shift in society's mindset towards team sports. Used to we taught our kids to prioritize things of importance (within the sports realm) as follows:

1.Team
2.Teammates
3.Self

That is no longer the case. It actually has flip flopped. Self comes first and the betterment of the team comes last. But it didn't start once they became a big time D1 athlete. Oh no, it started in Wee-Ball when if "Junior" didn't play the position "Mommy & Daddy" thought he should play. They raised seven kinds of hell and made the coaches' lives miserable or took their ball and went and started another team where now "Junior's" daddy is the head coach and he's guaranteed to play QB, Shortstop or Point guard. It's called "Daddy Ball". I see it all the time.
Correct and this also highlights one of the most under-appreciated abilities of CNS to teach "team first" attributes. In light of current attitudes about this, even an all time great like CNS will still struggle with this.

And how he manged last year's team discontent is pretty amazing.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I don't disagree that this has happened to an extent. But I think there can be more nuance. You can look out for yourself and also your team. Put your team first in the proper situations but when it comes down to it there are times where you have to put yourself first IMO.
I think there are cases in which this is the best thing to do. But just look at Alabama and the backup quarterbacks that have transferred because they thought they could be the starter some where else. If I'm not mistaken their track record hasn't been a glowing endorsement for transferring. It's actually proven the Alabama staff made the right decision. Rather than being a backup on a team that had great success. They transferred to become a backup for a team that had little to no success.
 

B1GTide

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I think that the real swing has been in the view that the players have of the sport. They used to consider themselves students at a school first and foremost. They really created an identity for themselves that was tied to their school. They now view their play as a job, and their school as their employer. Now, that doesn't mean that there is a complete lack of pride about their school, but it isn't the same.

This same attitude makes it easier to transfer. Why stay with your current employer if you can get "more" from someone else?
 

RollTide_HTTR

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I think there are cases in which this is the best thing to do. But just look at Alabama and the backup quarterbacks that have transferred because they thought they could be the starter some where else. If I'm not mistaken their track record hasn't been a glowing endorsement for transferring. It's actually proven the Alabama staff made the right decision. Rather than being a backup on a team that had great success. They transferred to become a backup for a team that had little to no success.
This is why I would be curious if someone tracked these things in detail. Would be interesting to see what happens to QB transfers and how often.
 

TomFromBama

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A lot of things have changed.

1) Nowadays, EVERY team even down through Division II and III (or whatever) plays on TV. Thirty years ago, Carson Wentz would not have been seen on TV at N Dakota St or (in all likelihood) been given a shot in the NFL. It would have been better for him to be seen coming off the bench at a Nebraska or Kansas St than to play for the Bison. Brook Berringer of Nebraska was being touted as an NFL draft pick despite being little more than a career backup QB to Tommie Frazier who had the good fortune to win some games with a talented team.

2) Tribalism is dying. The number of young people who grew up and "this" was their team and they never pulled for anyone else is going down all the time. It's similar to how about 40% of the stadium leaves at BDS if we're blowing out an also ran at halftime. Their interest is "well, I go to school here" rather than "I love (name of school)."

3) Internet and social media make it MUCH easier than it was back in the day to figure out/know which schools may have an opening next year.

I have more to say, but I'm tired.
Just to jump in here on Page 2, before reading the other page and a half - but I agree with all the above, and REALLY agree with all in the linked article.

on 1) - AGREE, and that's why 90% of guys who are going to be career backup QB's at P-5 schools would be FAR better served to transfer to Mid-Majors or even lower division schools. A starter at a Mid-major has a VASTLY BETTER chance of making an NFL roster than any P-5 backup who's never started.

And a guy who spends even 2-3 years JUST "Carrying a clipboard" for an NFL team is likely to gross close to Half a MILLION a year. A fellow who's even moderately careful with his money can put away a pretty nice "Nest egg", even from just 2-3 years. AND, if a guy in that position EVER manages to make it up to an NFL starting QB position - even for ONE Season, he could be financially SET FOR LIFE. (if he's careful with his money).

So when we cuss a player who "quits" on "his team" in hopes of potentially starting somewhere else - remember that he's making a business decision that potentially could be worth MILLIONS of Dollars, even if he never makes it as an NFL starter.


2) "Tribalism" has been dead (or virtually dead) among the VAST majority of "Blue-Chip" type players for DECADES now. The chance of hearing another "Brodie Croyle" type story in our lifetimes is pretty small. And even THAT would not have happened if not for a LOT of very real Off-Field considerations.

I've been saying for YEARS now (and some still don't believe me) but the ONLY people who think College Football is a "Religion" are the fans. PERIOD.
It's purely a BUSINESS for EVERYONE ELSE involved in the game, from the Coaches, to the Administrators, to the TV executives, Conference leaders, AD's, Concession vendors, and YES - EVEN FOR THE (BETTER) PLAYERS.

A "5-star" recruit in 2018 is going to say the "Right words" when he's interviewed about his recruitment - as in, the words that will make the fans happy at his chosen school. But virtually NONE of these guys is signing with Alabama because they want to live in Tuscaloosa or they like the color "Crimson", or signing with UGa because they think the bulldog mascot is "Cool", or signing with Ohio State because of the quality of the education, or signing with aTm because they love the "Yell Leaders", or signing with USCw because of the good weather - (OR even how many games or Titles they might win at a particular school!) These guys are picking schools 100% based on their subjective impression of which school gives them the best shot at playing in "the League".


3) Yep. and it's a two way street. It also gives coaches at other schools an easy way to evaluate a guy on another team's roster, if, for example, that guy's "Uncle" ;) was to call another school to gauge their interest should the guy decide to transfer at any point in the future . . . . . . . . .
 
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TomFromBama

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

This is why I would be curious if someone tracked these things in detail. Would be interesting to see what happens to QB transfers and how often.
I think you'd almost have to track them as two different Eras - the PRE vs. the POST Russell Wilson eras.

Before Russell Wilson, the record was VERY Sparse. Basically there was Troy Aikman, and very few others. Many coaches were wary of taking transfers, and did their best to scare the Be-geezus out of their own players any time one was contemplating a transfer.

Russell Wilson, IMO, opened a LOT of eyes. He had a successful career at NCState - a P-5 school no less. But had Virtually NO chance of an NFL career. But one season on a bigger stage at Wisconsin, and as they say, "The Rest is History".

I'm not sure there's been another QB Transfer that's matched Wilson's results, but I know there have been quite a few who've at least had the chance to spend 1-2 seasons starting at a second college, and at least had the OPPORTUNITY to compile a record and have a shot at the NFL.

Heck, just look at the Merry-go-round of QB's at aTm, TCU and a couple other schools in the B-12.
 

Power Eye

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I don't know that I agree with the article in terms of how the career back-up QB has become almost extinct. The article seems to infer that this is a fairly recent development, but honestly, I think that player became all but extinct years ago. I was trying to think of the last Alabama scholarship QB who exhausted all four years of eligibility at Alabama without starting, or only starting because of injury. I'm pretty certain there have been zero under Saban. Under Shula, Guillon transferred in and Pennington I believe didn't come back for his 4th year. I can't recall if J.D. Phillips played all four years, but he also started a few games in 98. Maybe Lance Tucker was the last QB to fit those parameters and that was over twenty years ago.
 

Its On A Slab

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

Most of the QB transfers are doing so because of playing time - as (barring injury to the starter) they will be riding the pine. And if they have NFL aspirations, history only shows a few backup college players (Brad Johnson from FSU; Matt Cassel from Southern Cal) ever make it on an NFL roster.

Which is why I don't belabor a kid from finding a starting spot somewhere else.
 

Tenntiderman

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A lot of things have changed.

1) Nowadays, EVERY team even down through Division II and III (or whatever) plays on TV. Thirty years ago, Carson Wentz would not have been seen on TV at N Dakota St or (in all likelihood) been given a shot in the NFL. It would have been better for him to be seen coming off the bench at a Nebraska or Kansas St than to play for the Bison. Brook Berringer of Nebraska was being touted as an NFL draft pick despite being little more than a career backup QB to Tommie Frazier who had the good fortune to win some games with a talented team.

2) Tribalism is dying. The number of young people who grew up and "this" was their team and they never pulled for anyone else is going down all the time. It's similar to how about 40% of the stadium leaves at BDS if we're blowing out an also ran at halftime. Their interest is "well, I go to school here" rather than "I love (name of school)."

3) Internet and social media make it MUCH easier than it was back in the day to figure out/know which schools may have an opening next year.

I have more to say, but I'm tired.
Great points. For example....consider the TV saturation of college ball...combined with the commercialism of a team like.....say 'Oregon Ducks' with their Nike affiliation and their "basketball on grass" Offenses. I see young fellas that I know for a fact are born and raised in Tennessee wearing Univ of Oregon hats or gear. That didn't happen years ago. But I guess very few of them can read, because REAL Oregon fans in the northwest have little respect for Southern people. The point is that the saturation is nationwide anymore and local loyalty has waned. Heck......there are Bama fans elsewhere as well.
 

Tenntiderman

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I don't know that I agree with the article in terms of how the career back-up QB has become almost extinct. The article seems to infer that this is a fairly recent development, but honestly, I think that player became all but extinct years ago. I was trying to think of the last Alabama scholarship QB who exhausted all four years of eligibility at Alabama without starting, or only starting because of injury. I'm pretty certain there have been zero under Saban. Under Shula, Guillon transferred in and Pennington I believe didn't come back for his 4th year. I can't recall if J.D. Phillips played all four years, but he also started a few games in 98. Maybe Lance Tucker was the last QB to fit those parameters and that was over twenty years ago.
I think Phillips might be a different case. His turned out to be more of his disappointment of the way he and his coaches felt about his performance. He worked so very hard during the offseason in '98, and then much was made about the performances of Andrew Zow. I don't recall which game it was, but John had a game early in the season that was a disaster. Don't think he ever recovered mentally. I liked that kid. I am sure he was fine afterward, but I always hated that he failed to win our fan's hearts. I wish he had better memories.
 

GrayTide

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I posted in a thread last summer an article that showed 39 of the projected 2017 starting QBs of all 130 FBS teams were not starting for the program they originally signed with out of HS.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Re: Quarterback transfers altering college football's landscape because 'culture has

I think Phillips might be a different case. His turned out to be more of his disappointment of the way he and his coaches felt about his performance. He worked so very hard during the offseason in '98, and then much was made about the performances of Andrew Zow. I don't recall which game it was, but John had a game early in the season that was a disaster. Don't think he ever recovered mentally. I liked that kid. I am sure he was fine afterward, but I always hated that he failed to win our fan's hearts. I wish he had better memories.
In the Arky game, he was 9 of 21 for 48 yards....
 

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