To what extent, if any, was the development of Braxton Key stunted by coaching?

nexposure

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First, let me introduce myself: I am a fan and an alum of UVA who is supremely envious of your football program, who misses the days when out football program was respectable, and who has really enjoyed Virginia basketball under Coach Tony Bennett, who I think has been easily our best basketball coach, and my time at the school date back almost to Ralph Sampson.

All that brings me to Key, whom I'm sure many of you know is Sampson's nephew. Whenever someone new comes to UVA basketball, whether that be a recruit or a transfer, I enjoy researching that player, seeking out full-game videos rather than highlights because the latter can make anyone look good.

There's not a lot of fill-game video I could find -- just a couple of games early in Key's freshman year, including against Clemson, and a couple after he returned from a knee injury as a sophomore. That's not a big sample size. That said, I came into those games with no clear impression of your coach, Avery Johnson, other than I liked him as a player in the NBA. I walked away after seeing those videos thinking that Johnson has really struggled as a coach and his shortcomings seemed to stunt Key's potential.

On offense, your team showed very little movement off the ball, which is especially perilous for a team that has some excellent athletes but not shooters. I saw a lot of ineffective high screens that were not executed well - neither the ball handler or the screener seemed to have a clear sense of where to go after the screen. I saw some efforts to work the ball from the wing to players in or just outside the lane. But mostly, I saw a lot of wasted time followed by ISO moves. In saying that, I emphasize the two games I saw were early in the season, so perhaps there was significant improvement.

It seemed to me the way Johnson coached your offense was especially poorly suited for Key, who when given the chance (and there were not that many chances) showed good court vision and passing as well as an ability to touch paint and either shoot or dish. That was more evident he first year when he handled the ball more and less evident after you brought in a future NBA player in Sexton. In high school, Key was dominant because of skills, basketball IQ and athleticism; in college, his athleticism doesn't stand out nearly as much, so he seems best suited for a team that can make use of his skills and basketball IQ.

The defensive assignments and expectations under Johnson also seemed less than clear; it looked like a basic, 2-3 zone, but players didn't seem to know where to rotate as the ball and opponents moves. Your defense was still strong, but that seemed more the product of having good athletes than a cohesive approach, though that too may have improved as the season went on. To my eyes, Key showed the ability to be a versatile defender, especially his first year before the knee injury, but sometimes seemed confused by the rotations.

All my observations are based on very limited viewing, so I am curious what you all think. Was Key stunted by coaching (or not)?

I know Key's transfer was influenced by family -- most of his extended family live in Virginia. But I also believe he may be a much better fit for UVA and Bennett than he was for Johnson and Alabama. At Virginia, he will be surrounded by players who believe in selfless play, who will give up a good shot for a better shot, and he will be surrounded by a lot of very good shooters - Kyle Guy, Ty Jerome and De'Andre Hunter are already established 3-point shooters while Jay Huff, who was mostly stuck on the bench as a freshman, is a 7-footer stretch-4 with a great shooting touch. I also think UVA's packline is well suited to Key: It creates clear responsibilities, values versatility and placed a greater premium on players who are long and play under control (with good balance) rather than on players with quickness.
 

BAMAVILLE

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Welcome to Tidefans nexsposure! You wrote an interesting assessment, I guess my best answer to your question is ... time will tell. he has a good opportunity to show his abilities at UVA but he also had the same opportunities at UA.

During the season before this one, Key was more successful in the same offense when we was healthier and when he was pretty much "option A".

He never got into a real rhythm this past season, it honestly felt like he took a step back. There are various factors that can be argued why that was the case ... but nevertheless the results where two drastically different seasons. He will have the opportunity to grow at UVA in the manner in the ways you noted but at the end of the day ... his success ultimately lies with him. I wish him the best.
 

bamamick

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Basketball players these days seem to expect their coaches to build around them rather than coming into a program wanting to fit in as best as the staff needs them to. In some cases a player transfers simply because they aren't getting to play, because they just aren't good enough to break into the top seven or eight player rotation. I can understand those guys transferring. I have said more than once that given the chance to either play or practice I am playing somewhere, whether at Alabama or at Alabama State. You only have so many chances to play the game before your talent excludes you from moving forward. I would want to play.

But that wasn't the case with Key, who has plenty of talent and will contribute wherever he plays. Like with Petty, I believe that Key's biggest problem last year was that he realized he wasn't the alpha dog and figured that Petty would assume that position this year and he didn't want to play a role rather than be the focus. The odd thing is that UVa is famous for one thing: defense. Am I right? Virginia is all about team, all about discipline, all about defense? Key is not going to put up 'lottery' stats at UVa, and the crazy thing is that he could have done that here if he had been willing to fight for them. Butler and Petty are good players (supposedly), but we have SEEN Key do it, and know that when he is good he can be very good.

I mentioned after last season that he was the number one transfer possibility because something just wasn't right with him last year. I wish him well, of course, but like Trevor Lacey I am not sure a change of zip code is going to make that much of a difference in his game.

rtr
 
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RTR91

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Short answer - watch more tape.

As previously mentioned, Braxton did very well when he was the #1 guy in 2016-2017. He did well in spurts this year, but he never got into a good groove after missing the first half of the season with his injury.

Alabama has seen improvement in players under Avery in his three years, so I struggle to say Braxton having a so-so year this year falls at Avery's feet.
 

Rama Jama

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He began the year injured and missed half the season. He did not look like he was in game shape when he came back and struggled to find a rhythm. We had a very young team this past year and he never seemed to buy in on the team concept. He has always seemed like he was never satisfied with being at Bama. I think he felt that maybe UVA was where he wanted to be because of his being related to Sampson.
He is a good player who thinks is better than he really is at this point in his career. He tried to go pro after his freshman season which is a good indication someone was telling him he an NBA talent when he was far from ready. Honestly, I thought he'd play in the NBA, but only after he'd had a few seasons of experience. He seemed to make a lot of boneheaded mistakes this past year. He is prone to turnovers and his shooting is spotty. Unless something really changes , he is IMHO a European league player. He has talent, but needs to learn to be a team player.
 

nexposure

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@BAMAVILLE - Thanks for the warm welcome. Even in the short sample of games I could watch, I could see his game regress from his first year to his second, and it appeared to me too that part of that was Key becoming a secondary option. He also seemed to have lost a little lateral agility, at least right after he returned from injury. You are right too -- time will tell.

@bamamick - I can't speak to what players generally expect, but I can speak to what players recruited to Virginia expect, and it's not to have the team built around their talents. Virginia recruits expect to learn how to be lock-down defenders, how to play in an offensive scheme that values team-play and passing over hero ball, and they expect Coach Bennett and his crew to improve them as players. Malcolm Brogdon went from being a sub-top 100 recruit to a first team all-American and a NBA rookie of the year. Joe Harris went from a sub top-100 recruit to being one of the best bench players in the NBA (he just signed a 2-year $16 million deal with the Nets). Devon Hall went from having to red-shirt his first year to becoming a 2nd round draft choice in June and has a good chance to be a 10-year rotation piece. De'Andre Hunter quickly went from being sub-top 100 recruit to an expected lottery pick in 2019; Hunter would have likely gone pro this year, after his first season, and have been a first rounder, but for the injury he suffered in the ACC tourney.

At UVA, Braxton will not be an alpha dog in terms of scoring; Hunter, Guy and Jerome will all be pre-season all-ACC and all can score. That Braxton chose Virginia suggests to me he wants to develop as an all-around player and as a play-maker. I don't think NBA teams are looking for video-game like stats -- their front offices use sophisticated, advanced stats that are adjusted by tempo and usage, and they usually draft more on demonstrated skills, versatility and potential than on things like scoring average. Hall was 35th last year in the ACC in points per game but was the 9th ACC player selected in the draft because he is a strong defender, a good 3-point shooter, has some point guard skills in a big frame and is the opposite of a prima donna - he will do anything to help his team. Hunter is projected to be the first or second returning college player to be drafted in 2019 even though he wasn't in the top 40 of ACC scoring because he can defend the 1 to 4 and is a triple threat scoring -- 3's, great mid-range game and hard to stop driving to the basket.

You are right the Virginia is known for its defense, and one reason it gets players drafted is that the program produced great defenders, which the NBA values. But Virginia is also known for its team-oriented play on offense. I know UVA doesn't score much but that is because their defense forces opponents to use most of the shot clock because Virginia gives up so few open looks. Last year, UVA had the 30th most efficient offense in college hoops -- that according to Ken Pomeroy, who tracks scoring per possession, adjusted for the strength of opponents' defense. By comparison, Alabama last year was ranked 106th.

Key definitely regressed last year and for the reason you noted. But even in his first year, when he led the team in scoring, it seemed to me their was very little coaching of the offense, that players often just stood and watched and that Key's skills as a play-maker were under-utilized because he teammates did not move without the ball and most struggled as shooters -- Alabama's offensive efficiency that year was ranked 152nd, which is awfully low for a school in a power conference -- in the SEC, only Missouri ranked lower.

@RTR91 -- Any suggestions on where to find more full-game videos? I only found a couple on Youtube for each of the past two years. It's good to know a lot of players have improved under Avery. Perhaps Avery is better at developing some types of players and skill sets but not others. I can tell that Coach Bennett, who was a guard himself, seems stronger at developing guards and wings than he is at developing big men at the offensive end.
 

nexposure

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@Rama Jama He looked to me too he wasn't moving as well in his second year; I thought it was because of the injury but you may be entirely right that he was not in game shape. In your view, what was the role he was supposed to play on the team that he did not play. In the two games I watched, Key was usually camped in a corner, presumably to stretch the defense and create more driving lanes for Sexton, but Key is not enough of an outside shooter to really stretch defenses, and being in a corner is just about the worst place to be as a playmaker. That was just for the two games I watched, but typically a player would never station himself in a corner unless that was what he was told to do by his coach.

The boneheaded mistakes is not something Bennett at UVA will tolerate: He demands smart play, and when someone falls short, they spend a lot of time on the bench. Bennett is also effective teaching shooting (Bennett still holds the NCAA record for career 3-point percentage) and being a team player. Whether he will have success with Key remains to be seen, but Bennett is most skilled at teaching in the areas you think Key needs to improve -- and I suspect that is why Key chose Virginia. In fact, in interviews, Key has said that when he first selected Alabama over Virginia (UVA recruited him hard out of high school as Key played at Oak Hill in Virginia), one of the reasons was he didn't want to go to a school where he'd play in his uncle's shadow.
 

bamamick

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@BAMAVILLE - Thanks for the warm welcome. Even in the short sample of games I could watch, I could see his game regress from his first year to his second, and it appeared to me too that part of that was Key becoming a secondary option. He also seemed to have lost a little lateral agility, at least right after he returned from injury. You are right too -- time will tell.

@bamamick - I can't speak to what players generally expect, but I can speak to what players recruited to Virginia expect, and it's not to have the team built around their talents. Virginia recruits expect to learn how to be lock-down defenders, how to play in an offensive scheme that values team-play and passing over hero ball, and they expect Coach Bennett and his crew to improve them as players. Malcolm Brogdon went from being a sub-top 100 recruit to a first team all-American and a NBA rookie of the year. Joe Harris went from a sub top-100 recruit to being one of the best bench players in the NBA (he just signed a 2-year $16 million deal with the Nets). Devon Hall went from having to red-shirt his first year to becoming a 2nd round draft choice in June and has a good chance to be a 10-year rotation piece. De'Andre Hunter quickly went from being sub-top 100 recruit to an expected lottery pick in 2019; Hunter would have likely gone pro this year, after his first season, and have been a first rounder, but for the injury he suffered in the ACC tourney.

At UVA, Braxton will not be an alpha dog in terms of scoring; Hunter, Guy and Jerome will all be pre-season all-ACC and all can score. That Braxton chose Virginia suggests to me he wants to develop as an all-around player and as a play-maker. I don't think NBA teams are looking for video-game like stats -- their front offices use sophisticated, advanced stats that are adjusted by tempo and usage, and they usually draft more on demonstrated skills, versatility and potential than on things like scoring average. Hall was 35th last year in the ACC in points per game but was the 9th ACC player selected in the draft because he is a strong defender, a good 3-point shooter, has some point guard skills in a big frame and is the opposite of a prima donna - he will do anything to help his team. Hunter is projected to be the first or second returning college player to be drafted in 2019 even though he wasn't in the top 40 of ACC scoring because he can defend the 1 to 4 and is a triple threat scoring -- 3's, great mid-range game and hard to stop driving to the basket.

You are right the Virginia is known for its defense, and one reason it gets players drafted is that the program produced great defenders, which the NBA values. But Virginia is also known for its team-oriented play on offense. I know UVA doesn't score much but that is because their defense forces opponents to use most of the shot clock because Virginia gives up so few open looks. Last year, UVA had the 30th most efficient offense in college hoops -- that according to Ken Pomeroy, who tracks scoring per possession, adjusted for the strength of opponents' defense. By comparison, Alabama last year was ranked 106th.

Key definitely regressed last year and for the reason you noted. But even in his first year, when he led the team in scoring, it seemed to me their was very little coaching of the offense, that players often just stood and watched and that Key's skills as a play-maker were under-utilized because he teammates did not move without the ball and most struggled as shooters -- Alabama's offensive efficiency that year was ranked 152nd, which is awfully low for a school in a power conference -- in the SEC, only Missouri ranked lower.

@RTR91 -- Any suggestions on where to find more full-game videos? I only found a couple on Youtube for each of the past two years. It's good to know a lot of players have improved under Avery. Perhaps Avery is better at developing some types of players and skill sets but not others. I can tell that Coach Bennett, who was a guard himself, seems stronger at developing guards and wings than he is at developing big men at the offensive end.
I believe that what you saw with Key's first year was CAJ trying to win games with Coach Grant's players. The reason Anthony Grant is no longer the coach here is that his offenses were abysmal, and it wasn't just the players. More often than not the team looked like they'd just go down the court, eat the shot clock, and then throw up a prayer at the one second mark. The man averaged right around 20 wins per year as the head coach at Bama, but offense was not his strong point and the players DID look as if they would regress. Now, Obasahan was a big time exception, and that kid could play, but I shudder to think of what we'd have had without Retin being here.

If Key buys into your system he can be a nice piece to the puzzle.

rtr
 

BAMAVILLE

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it was really interesting just watching everything unfold last season ... it was like he just couldn't get in a rhythm, a few of the games (not all of them) looked like he never played basketball at the collegiate level period.

It was so weird because I know that some of the fans were anticipating his return last season from injury and paired with the added talent that we would be a team to be reckoned with. Again, he never was able to get back to the level we saw from him the previous season. Hoping he will though with UVA.
 

RTR91

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@RTR91 -- Any suggestions on where to find more full-game videos? I only found a couple on Youtube for each of the past two years. It's good to know a lot of players have improved under Avery. Perhaps Avery is better at developing some types of players and skill sets but not others. I can tell that Coach Bennett, who was a guard himself, seems stronger at developing guards and wings than he is at developing big men at the offensive end.
If you have an account for WatchESPN, you should be able to watch old games there. If not, I'm not really sure.
 

Rama Jama

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My point was he was never comfortable at Alabama even during his freshman year. I do think he has talent, and could have a shot at the NBA, but he needs to be a better shooter, and defender. I also think, although I have no idea who, there is someone who is giving him bad advice. He needs to develop his skill level. As far as our offensive ranking, that is due to us having the 4th youngest team in America. We'll be much more efficient this year. I wish Braxton at luck UVA, but you really don't see a many transfers who end up being solid NBA players.
 

edwd58

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Is that you Coach Bennett? ;) Well, feel free to come on in and bash on our coach, but welcome to the board just the same.

It was hard to make much of an evaluation of Key's season as we really had no way of knowing how much of an impact his injury had on his ability to play -especially to his previously shown level. Was he fully recovered when he returned?, did he ever fully recover?, is he recovered today? Questions we can't answer but certainly could have affected his play.

Also, Braxton tested the draft waters after the previous season and only decided to return to UA at the last possible moment. So, what was he doing during that time? Was he working out, was working on his shot, was he practicing with the team, participating in team drills, did he work on strengthening relationships and cohesion with his teammates? Did he even want to still be at UA, or did he return because he was out of other options? Considering Key's apparent willingness to leave, should CAJ have spent much time worrying about Key? Should he have been planning his season with or without Key? I don't know the answer to any of those scenarios, but I point them out because any or all of them could have been in play and had something to do with how Key played this year. For someone to question if it was a matter of coaching (multiple times), with all those issues on the board, is an unfair assessment of CAJ and his abilities.

I realize there's plenty of negative overtones in my post but I really liked Key and, at times, he was very good for us. On the other hand, way too often, when he came into the game if he missed his first shot it dictated the rest of his evening. I was surprised by his decision to go to UVA because of the value they put on playing defense. Key wasn't necessarily a defensive liability, but his defensive abilities/intensity wouldn't be the first thing mentioned when one described his game. There are some players that, were they to transfer, you wouldn't want to play against, but Key doesn't fall into that group for me. Perhaps Coach Bennett can make an All-American out of him - and I'll give him a tip of the cap - and be happy for Braxton.
 

nexposure

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@bamamick - Thanks for the insight about Coach Grant. Makes sense.

@RTR91 -- Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, I don't have WATCHESPN for now, but will check it out.

@Rama Jama -- Key won't play much at UVA unless he steps up his defence, so hopefully, that is motivation enough. He looked (in my very limited viewing) to have enough physical attributes to become a good and versatile defender; he also show some smarts on the court though not consistently enough. That too is a focus at Virginia. He will be joining a veteran team, so hopefully that helps him fit better -- Virginia's backcourt starts two juniors who were all-ACC and who have logged a lot of minute, the team's center is a senior, and the only non-upperclassman expected to play a major role is a red-shirt sophomore.

@edwd58 Sorry about the knocks on Johnson -- I think the team's struggles in the games I saw were in part due to the games being early in the season when your coach was trying to blend new and existing talent. Virginia has put up some stinkers early in seasons too. It seems from what you and other describe of Key's game, the areas in which he most needs to improve are also areas in which Coach Bennett and UVA excel. Hopefully, that mean Key has made an honest assessment of how he must improve and is focused on making needed changes. He wouldn't be the first college player to gain some maturity after struggling.
 

day-day

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I think Key would have had a good season next year at Bama if he had stayed AND worked hard at strength and conditioning. It looked like his injury knocked him back until late in the season. He was one of the more consistent players during the last 8-10 games as far as rebounding and scoring; better than he was anytime earlier in the season.

His first step is a little slow so he needs to develop a little more power and explosiveness; I think he was on track without the injury and whatever attitude issue he may have had. Also needs to cut down on bad passes.

It will be interesting to see how he does at UVA once he starts playing. We'll never know what improvements would have taken place with another year or two at Bama.
 

beatthemtigers

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I think he’ll be a good piece for y’all. One thing he needs to work on though is confidence in his shooting, especially when he’s not the #1 option
 

nexposure

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@day-day Virginia has an excellent strength and conditioning coach, Mike Curtis, who will hopefully help Key increase his explosiveness. UVA has a somewhat similar player in Anthony Gill, similar in the sense that he and Key are about the same size and need a combination of explosiveness, agility and strength to finish and create good shots in or near the paint. Gill improved every year under Curtis, in part because Gill had a great work ethic, something Key will need to show too.As for the bad passes, Key did have a high turnover rate but I didn't see enough tape to get a sense of the type of turnovers. What's your sense? Was he forcing passes that should not have been attempted? Just executing poorly on passes that were open? Losing the ball in traffic while driving?

@beatthemtigers Improving his shooting would help him a lot of ways; he'd be more of a threat as a playmaker if his shooting forces defenders to close quickly on him. It's interesting; the player Key would replace if he gets approved in a hardship application to play this year is Isaiah Wilkins, who also struggled with his shooting. Wilkins was a stellar defender, great teammate, but his offensive game was limited because his shooting was inconsistent, even from the mid-range. Wilkins (step-son of Dominique) was not a good leaper or especially athletic and like Key was about 6'7" of 6'8"; he did not have Key's more well-rounded skills, so I think Key has a lot more upside if he can improve his shot.
 

day-day

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Key seemed to have a mix of ill-advised passes and passes without enough zip on them for the situation. Looked like a number of turnovers were from passing the ball without seeing the defense or not checking for the defenders. These can be improved.

He looked like he has been working out with a more developed upper body; I think the injury just persisted through this season which hampered his legs.

He has excellent size for his skill set and can be a real problem for opposing teams when healthy (again, mentally as well as physically).
 
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Rama Jama

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Whatever the reason, I got the feeling Key's heart and head weren't completely in it at Alabama. Perhaps he will be more at home at UVA. I wish him the best of luck in achieving his goals.
Completely agree. I always felt he was wished he was somewhere else. He just never looked like he was completely sold on Alabama for whatever reason. I don't think he was a bad kid, but I never got the feeling his heart was completely in it here. Hopefully a change of scenery will help him. I alluded to this earlier, but he has someone in his ear who may be the problem. He has someone who is advising him who doesn't have his best interests at heart iMHO. He has NBA potential, but only if he truly dedicates himself 100%. At this point, the NBA is not a real option for him. I wish him luck at UVA.
 

NationalTitles18

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Completely agree. I always felt he was wished he was somewhere else. He just never looked like he was completely sold on Alabama for whatever reason. I don't think he was a bad kid, but I never got the feeling his heart was completely in it here. Hopefully a change of scenery will help him. I alluded to this earlier, but he has someone in his ear who may be the problem. He has someone who is advising him who doesn't have his best interests at heart iMHO. He has NBA potential, but only if he truly dedicates himself 100%. At this point, the NBA is not a real option for him. I wish him luck at UVA.
Whoever put it in his head after year one that he was ready for the NBA needs to be put at a distance by the young man. It was obvious that he was nowhere near ready. Perhaps he was disheartened by the feedback he received and the injury was the icing on the cake, as it were.

Below is an article on his humbling experience:

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/alabama-basketball-braxton-key

A horse first has to be broken before it can win the race, but they still need spirit. Key seemed to have lost his. I hope he can get it back.
 

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