Kansas has fallen and can't get up

selmaborntidefan

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This is an interesting point about Kansas being a cupcake but counting as a Power 5. I think any Power 5 team who has a losing conference record over a five year period should not count as Power 5. If Kansas and Vanderbilt can't at least go 22-22 or 20-20 (break even) then they are obviously not Power 5 worthy.

For Top 10 ranking only (I am not advocating kicking them out of P5 conferences) they should not "count" as P5 wins and just count as a win. After all, Kansas, Oregon State, Colorado, Vandy, Purdue and etc. would qualify as cupcakes the past five years and beating up on Kansas would be no different than beating up on Southern Miss.

Brent Bielema looked awfully good as a HC in the Big 10 West. LOL. He would look like the HC at Arkansas had he played in the Big 10 East. This is my point, playing cupcake P5 makes for good looking stats -- but were they really that good?

Everyone gets hung up on names and titles. What's funny is how many of the pundits can see this when they disparage Miss State fans for chanting "SEC," as if MSU has ever contributed at all to SEC football's national reputation. But they suddenly develop blinders when it comes to teams like Maryland in the Big 10 or Kansas in the Big 12 (or the fact neither conference can do math).
 

Crimson1967

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But they suddenly develop blinders when it comes to teams like Maryland in the Big 10 or Kansas in the Big 12 (or the fact neither conference can do math).
I am glad our conference founders didn’t put a number in the name. Of course, we started with 13, then have gone to 12, 11, 10, back to 12 and now 14. So it would have been quite a hassle.

Also glad they didn’t pick an Indian nickname for us. Back when Native Americans were called Indians).


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BamaJama17

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Interesting fact, when Kansas beat Nebraska in 2007 by a score of 76-39, they scored more on Nebraska in that game than they did from 1980-1989. Seriously the only reason Kansas, K-State, Iowa State, and even OK-Lite existed was for OU and Nebraska to beat up on them in football. Only MIZ and Colorado had decent teams every now and then.
 
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Redwood Forrest

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I am glad our conference founders didn’t put a number in the name. Of course, we started with 13, then have gone to 12, 11, 10, back to 12 and now 14. So it would have been quite a hassle.

Also glad they didn’t pick an Indian nickname for us. Back when Native Americans were called Indians).


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I agree but the PAC 12 is much smarter than the Big 10 and the Big 12. The PAC 8 became the PAC 10 and then the PAC 12. For some reason the Big 10 and Big 12 seem afraid to change their number. ACC, Big 14, Big 10, PAC 12 and SEC. I don't have a problem with that.
 

UntouchableCrew

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I agree but the PAC 12 is much smarter than the Big 10 and the Big 12. The PAC 8 became the PAC 10 and then the PAC 12. For some reason the Big 10 and Big 12 seem afraid to change their number. ACC, Big 14, Big 10, PAC 12 and SEC. I don't have a problem with that.
LOL how would it be "smarter" to abandon an incredibly valuable brand name like the "Big 10?" Should the SEC change their name because Texas A&M isn't in the Southeast?
 

NationalTitles18

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LOL how would it be "smarter" to abandon an incredibly valuable brand name like the "Big 10?" Should the SEC change their name because Texas A&M isn't in the Southeast?
Side note: Given the proximity and history aTm is not that big a stretch in any case.

But I don't think that was the point being made so much as the PAC X doesn't have to contend with another conference called the PAC X like the Big X conferences do which makes a name change less likely and more confusing. As little sense as the two Big X conferences' names make now they won't be changed to make sense because the Big branding is diluted and has to be differentiated by numbers even when the numbers don't make sense. The Big Ten came first so the Big 8 and later Big 12 had to know what they were doing. Just one more indication of what a dumpster fire that conference is as a conference.
 

UntouchableCrew

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Side note: Given the proximity and history aTm is not that big a stretch in any case.

But I don't think that was the point being made so much as the PAC X doesn't have to contend with another conference called the PAC X like the Big X conferences do which makes a name change less likely and more confusing. As little sense as the two Big X conferences' names make now they won't be changed to make sense because the Big branding is diluted and has to be differentiated by numbers even when the numbers don't make sense. The Big Ten came first so the Big 8 and later Big 12 had to know what they were doing. Just one more indication of what a dumpster fire that conference is as a conference.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, I just don't fault the conferences for not changing their names as they evolve. The Big 10 is a brand -- depending on who you ask they are the first or second most valuable conference brand in college athletics. They should change to "the Big 14" (an ugly mouthful) because they're trying to expand to the east coast? I don't see why. When people think "Big Ten" the think of a midwest based power conference with a lot of history. I don't fault them for sticking with that, even with 14 teams.
 

NationalTitles18

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I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, I just don't fault the conferences for not changing their names as they evolve. The Big 10 is a brand -- depending on who you ask they are the first or second most valuable conference brand in college athletics. They should change to "the Big 14" (an ugly mouthful) because they're trying to expand to the east coast? I don't see why. When people think "Big Ten" the think of a midwest based power conference with a lot of history. I don't fault them for sticking with that, even with 14 teams.
Me either, just for a different reason (the other Big X conference made it impossible for them).
 

Redwood Forrest

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LOL how would it be "smarter" to abandon an incredibly valuable brand name like the "Big 10?" Should the SEC change their name because Texas A&M isn't in the Southeast?
I see you bought into the Big 10 argument/exscuse. When Penn State was admitted they should have become the Big 11. Now they should be the Big 14. AND NOBODY would know they were the former Big 10 :confused:-- just like no one knows the Pac 12 is the former Pac 10.:confused: Trust me, we will know.

Lets quit making fun of them for not knowing math if they are correct.
 

81usaf92

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I see you bought into the Big 10 argument/exscuse. When Penn State was admitted they should have become the Big 11. Now they should be the Big 14. AND NOBODY would know they were the former Big 10 :confused:-- just like no one knows the Pac 12 is the former Pac 10.:confused: Trust me, we will know.

Lets quit making fun of them for not knowing math if they are correct.
The whole numbering thing is stupid. They should’ve realized that the Big 10 was named the Big 9 for years so the name was dependent on who is added or subtracted to the conference.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, I just don't fault the conferences for not changing their names as they evolve. The Big 10 is a brand -- depending on who you ask they are the first or second most valuable conference brand in college athletics. They should change to "the Big 14" (an ugly mouthful) because they're trying to expand to the east coast? I don't see why. When people think "Big Ten" the think of a midwest based power conference with a lot of history. I don't fault them for sticking with that, even with 14 teams.
Oh, I get the argument and have no problem with it.


But you KNOW - and I mean everyone here KNOWS deep down......if the SEC had that particular name for our conference and expanded, there would be no end to the jokes about Southern illiteracy, redneckdom and "they can't even count down there" insults. And if it were here, the press would get it on it with more fervor.

I've always though that the Big Ten should just change their name to the B1G. As in "the bee one gee." EVERYONE knows what that is, and they could finally expand to include Notre Dame and N Dakota St.
 

Redwood Forrest

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Oh, I get the argument and have no problem with it.


But you KNOW - and I mean everyone here KNOWS deep down......if the SEC had that particular name for our conference and expanded, there would be no end to the jokes about Southern illiteracy, redneckdom and "they can't even count down there" insults. And if it were here, the press would get it on it with more fervor.

I've always though that the Big Ten should just change their name to the B1G. As in "the bee one gee." EVERYONE knows what that is, and they could finally expand to include Notre Dame and N Dakota St.
I understand all the reasons given about branded and all that but no one can convince me if the SEC changed its name to Gulf of Mexico Conference (GMC) that it would lose tons of money. No way. Our fans won't be able to find us? Alabama and Florida haven't changed their names. CBS would still telecast the GMC.

By the way, on excuses colleges use: Texas A&M stayed in the Big 12 and the excuse they used was it would be too much on their student athletes with different time zones and all that extra travel. But -- two years later they joined the SEC and to blazes with the student athlete. Yes, and if the Big 10 decided to change to the Big 16 they would do it in a heartbeat, because they want to and they wouldn't need an excuse not to.
 
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rgw

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I don't think anyone fared worse in football program development in the last expansion shuffle than the Big-12 teams not in the State of Texas or Oklahoma. I think West Virginia probably fared the worst because they would've been a giant in the AAC whereas they have some geographical impediments to succeeding against their schedule. Their travel is almost like a Pac-12 team that decided to join the Big-12. If they waited out on the ACC's moves then they may have gotten into a more geographically convenient conference. Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa State are stuck in a poor financial situation due to the Big-12's imbalanced revenue sharing. Maybe with a more equitable revenue sharing structure, these programs could spend their way into a position to take a shot at the powers.


The Big-12 is a bad conference and it only lives because advertising/broadcasting power wills it to exist. It is a sickly, poor structured organization that will not save itself as soon as television revenue starts drying up.
 

Redwood Forrest

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I don't think anyone fared worse in football program development in the last expansion shuffle than the Big-12 teams not in the State of Texas or Oklahoma. I think West Virginia probably fared the worst because they would've been a giant in the AAC whereas they have some geographical impediments to succeeding against their schedule. Their travel is almost like a Pac-12 team that decided to join the Big-12. If they waited out on the ACC's moves then they may have gotten into a more geographically convenient conference. Kansas, Kansas St, and Iowa State are stuck in a poor financial situation due to the Big-12's imbalanced revenue sharing. Maybe with a more equitable revenue sharing structure, these programs could spend their way into a position to take a shot at the powers.


The Big-12 is a bad conference and it only lives because advertising/broadcasting power wills it to exist. It is a sickly, poor structured organization that will not save itself as soon as television revenue starts drying up.
The Big 12 will survive as long as another conference doesn't raid Texas and Oklahoma. Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma St have no other Power 5 options. Not sure W Virginia does either. Who wants them? Texas and Oklahoma on the other hand would certainly help the Pac 12. These may be unhappy but I don't see what they can do.
 

rgw

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The Big 12 will survive as long as another conference doesn't raid Texas and Oklahoma. Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech and Oklahoma St have no other Power 5 options. Not sure W Virginia does either. Who wants them? Texas and Oklahoma on the other hand would certainly help the Pac 12. These may be unhappy but I don't see what they can do.
What I speculate is a scenario where the money gets tighter on television contracts and the current Big-12 arrangement doesn't effectively feed the large athletic programs in Austin and Norman. So those two will eventually jump ship to somewhere that is in a better contractual positioning with the broadcasters. Eventually the Big-12 will fall apart due to the fact that Texas and Oklahoma playing the sisters of the poor doesn't get people subscribing to your streaming service.
 

Redwood Forrest

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What I speculate is a scenario where the money gets tighter on television contracts and the current Big-12 arrangement doesn't effectively feed the large athletic programs in Austin and Norman. So those two will eventually jump ship to somewhere that is in a better contractual positioning with the broadcasters. Eventually the Big-12 will fall apart due to the fact that Texas and Oklahoma playing the sisters of the poor doesn't get people subscribing to your streaming service.
I agree except that Texas and Oklahoma hold the other eight hostage with a larger slice of the T.V. money. They may just take a bigger slice, since the other eight don't have any Power Five options. At least they both used to get a larger share. The percentages may have changed and I missed it. It's no wonder some of the others are not happy Big 12 campers.
 

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