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  1. #170
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    This thread might just hold me off until the last week of August...good job fellas


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  3. #171
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoySince89 View Post
    This thread might just hold me off until the last week of August...good job fellas


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    Glad I can minister to your needs......
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaBoySince89 View Post
    This thread might just hold me off until the last week of August...good job fellas


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    Just bring on fall camp. At least "football is in the air" again. Can't wait till Sept. 1st!!!

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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    But again where has a Bama coach’s endorsement let alone a Saban coaching endorsement ever worked? Keep in mind Saban recommended Houston Nutt for LSU. I think the AD who hired Miles had a better recommendation of Saban’s replacement than Saban.
    A couple things here -

    FIRST off, I don't know that it's a "Gospel fact" that Saban wanted Nutt - maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Just because people repeat it on internet message boards doesn't make it a fact.

    Sure, hindsight is 20-20..... or as pat dye famously said - "50-50". BUT Who's to say Nutt wouldn't have done about as well maintaining Saban's Machine at LSu as Les Miles did? Have you ever compared Miles' pre-LSu record to what Nutt had done up to 2004? You MIGHT be surprised.....

    SECOND POINT -

    I know you said "Alabama" coaches recommendations - but let's talk a bit more generally about Coaches endorsements that worked out (or could have).

    Bryant rather famously implored pat dye to NOT take the aubarn job, and instead wait just a couple years for the Alabama job - I'd call that a "Recommendation". (Maybe it's "sacrilege" to say it - But-) Can you IMAGINE what Dye would have accomplished at UA??????

    Wimp Sanderson was an assistant on CM Newton's UA Basketball teams. I can say for certain whether Newton recommended Sanderson, but I think it's likely. Maybe others can clarify? Sanderson ended poorly, but otherwise had a pretty decent run by UA Basketball standards.

    In 1966, Rip Engle retired as Penn State's Football HC and recommended an assistant as his successor - Joe Paterno. This also ended poorly, but only after 40+ years of pretty good results.....

    In 1972, Legendary Coach Bob Devaney retired at Nebraska's HC. He recommended his OC to succeed him.... You may have heard of the guy - Tom Osborne!
    Osborne (whatever we may think about how he ran his program), by then a legend far eclipsing Devaney, retired after the 1997 season. He was also one of Nebraska's AD's at the time and he HIRED his RB coach to take over.
    Frank Solich was considered a "Bust" by Knebraska fans, because on "Only" won 75.3% of his games - but that's a mark that has not been matched since Solich was fired.
    So in hindsight......

    When College Basketball Legend Dean Smith retired from UNC he forced the school to hire his long-time assistant Bill Guthridge (himself an elderly man at that time).
    Guthridge only made the Final Four in Two of his Three seasons as UNC HC.

    Similarly, "Big Game Bob" Stoops forced OU to hire his chosen successor, Lincoln Riley. So far that's worked out reasonably well.

    At the same time -
    AD's hired all the Nebraska coaches that followed Solich - Callahan, Pellini, and Riley. (We have yet to see what Frost will do in the B1G).
    AD's at PSU hired Tom Bradley and Bill O'Brien.
    AD's at Notre Dame hired Gerry Faust, Bob Davie, George O'Leary, Tyrone Whittingham and Charlie Weiss.
    AD's at USCw hired Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkesian. 1 out of Six?
    Alabama AD's hired Ears Whitworth, Denise Fraudchionne, Mike Price, Mike Shula, David Hobbs, Stephany Smith, Wendell Hudson. Mitch Gaspard, Greg Goff, and Brad Bohannon.

    just sayin'.....

    Roll Tide!!!!

  6. #174
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromBama View Post
    A couple things here -

    FIRST off, I don't know that it's a "Gospel fact" that Saban wanted Nutt - maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Just because people repeat it on internet message boards doesn't make it a fact.

    Sure, hindsight is 20-20..... or as pat dye famously said - "50-50". BUT Who's to say Nutt wouldn't have done about as well maintaining Saban's Machine at LSu as Les Miles did? Have you ever compared Miles' pre-LSu record to what Nutt had done up to 2004? You MIGHT be surprised.....

    SECOND POINT -

    I know you said "Alabama" coaches recommendations - but let's talk a bit more generally about Coaches endorsements that worked out (or could have).

    Bryant rather famously implored pat dye to NOT take the aubarn job, and instead wait just a couple years for the Alabama job - I'd call that a "Recommendation". (Maybe it's "sacrilege" to say it - But-) Can you IMAGINE what Dye would have accomplished at UA??????

    Wimp Sanderson was an assistant on CM Newton's UA Basketball teams. I can say for certain whether Newton recommended Sanderson, but I think it's likely. Maybe others can clarify? Sanderson ended poorly, but otherwise had a pretty decent run by UA Basketball standards.

    In 1966, Rip Engle retired as Penn State's Football HC and recommended an assistant as his successor - Joe Paterno. This also ended poorly, but only after 40+ years of pretty good results.....

    In 1972, Legendary Coach Bob Devaney retired at Nebraska's HC. He recommended his OC to succeed him.... You may have heard of the guy - Tom Osborne!
    Osborne (whatever we may think about how he ran his program), by then a legend far eclipsing Devaney, retired after the 1997 season. He was also one of Nebraska's AD's at the time and he HIRED his RB coach to take over.
    Frank Solich was considered a "Bust" by Knebraska fans, because on "Only" won 75.3% of his games - but that's a mark that has not been matched since Solich was fired.
    So in hindsight......

    When College Basketball Legend Dean Smith retired from UNC he forced the school to hire his long-time assistant Bill Guthridge (himself an elderly man at that time).
    Guthridge only made the Final Four in Two of his Three seasons as UNC HC.

    Similarly, "Big Game Bob" Stoops forced OU to hire his chosen successor, Lincoln Riley. So far that's worked out reasonably well.

    At the same time -
    AD's hired all the Nebraska coaches that followed Solich - Callahan, Pellini, and Riley. (We have yet to see what Frost will do in the B1G).
    AD's at PSU hired Tom Bradley and Bill O'Brien.
    AD's at Notre Dame hired Gerry Faust, Bob Davie, George O'Leary, Tyrone Whittingham and Charlie Weiss.
    AD's at USCw hired Ted Tollner, Larry Smith, Paul Hackett, Pete Carroll, Lane Kiffin and Steve Sarkesian. 1 out of Six?
    Alabama AD's hired Ears Whitworth, Denise Fraudchionne, Mike Price, Mike Shula, David Hobbs, Stephany Smith, Wendell Hudson. Mitch Gaspard, Greg Goff, and Brad Bohannon.

    just sayin'.....

    Roll Tide!!!!
    Meh. But an AD hired CNS, Dabo, Meyer, and Jimbo. Very rarely do coach endorsements work. But there a are a few things about your list.

    Pelini was not that bad. What made him bad to everyone outside of the state of Nebraska is ignorance or the lack of care that people have for the state. Point is the nation got Nebraska’s side of it, and not pelini’s. I lived in Nebraska for 6 years and was shocked at the level of access that the average fan has in the program. Pelini never had less than 9 wins in a season.

    Frost will be gone in 5 years imo

    O’Brien wasn’t a bad hire at all.

    CLK wasn’t a bad hire either. USCW was under Alabama like sanctions. He did a pretty decent job all considering. He had an idiot for an AD that caved to fan outrage over lofty expectations. I don’t know if he would’ve been great post sanctions but to judge him sanctions period is a bit unfair. And before you say “ well what about Shula”. Kiffin is worlds better of an offensive mind than Shula, and it’s not even debatable. Kiffin made Crompton a competent qb, Shula had one of the most nfl ready QBs at Alabama but the end zone was effectively a lava pit.

    Tom Osborne’s success was due to Nebraska’s scholarship loophole. He was an average at best coach. Yeah you can say 3 out of 4 years a NC, but when you have 91 extra scholarships for instate athletes added with 25 national scholarships it’s kinda easy to win. The real crime is he didn’t win more with that obvious advantage.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; July 11th, 2018 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #175
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    Meh. there are a few things

    Pelini was not that bad. What made him bad to everyone outside of the state of Nebraska is ignorance or the lack of care that people have for the state. Point is the nation got Nebraska’s side of it, and not pelini’s. I lived in Nebraska for 6 years and was shocked at the level of access that the average fan has in the program. Pelini never had less than 9 wins in a season.

    Frost will be gone in 5 years imo

    O’Brien wasn’t a bad hire at all.

    CLK wasn’t a bad hire either. USCW was under Alabama like sanctions. He did a pretty decent job all considering. He had an idiot for an AD that caved to fan outrage over lofty expectations. I don’t know if he would’ve been great post sanctions but to judge him sanctions period is a bit unfair. And before you say “ well what about Shula”. Kiffin is worlds better of an offensive mind than Shula, and it’s not even debatable. Kiffin made Crompton a competent qb, Shula had one of the most nfl ready QBs at Alabama but the end zone was effectively a lava pit.

    Tom Osborne’s success was due to Nebraska’s scholarship loophole. He was an average at best coach. Yeah you can say 3 out of 4 years a NC, but when you have 91 extra scholarships for instate athletes added with 25 national scholarships it’s kinda easy to win. The real crime is he didn’t win more with that obvious advantage.
    Oh LORD is this funny!!!

    Pelini wasn't that "Bad"? Ok, I mostly agree - he'd have been a "Rock Star" at Kansas or Texas Tech. But the fact is Pelini didn't match the record of Solich, a guy the Knebraska fans called a bust and demanded they fire.... So "it is what it is"......

    Yea, never won less than nine games... NOR won more than 10, and never LOST fewer than 4 games in any season he finished at Nebr.!!

    I don't really have a strong opinion either way on Frost. I'm no fan of Knebraska, but "IMO" CFB would be more interesting if another Blue Blood could return to the national stage.

    I'll give you O'Brien - but at the same time, would you accept an Alabama coach - even in a bad situation - who won less than 63% of his games?
    yea, I didn't think so!

    USCw's 2009 sanctions were actually Worse than our 2002 sanctions - the thing is, USCw didn't AMPLIFY their sanctions the way Alabama did, by
    (A) effectively losing almost a full year of recruiting by allowing Dumbose to hang on in 2000 when he lost the team,
    then
    (B) hiring a guy unable and/or unwilling to recruit and (for the most part) losing another two classes,
    then
    (C) replacing the second guy with an alcoholic who stayed at Washington St until January, barely recruited at all for UA, then flamed out before he'd been on campus 4 months - in effect costing us a FOURTH consecutive recruiting class.
    According to 24/7 sports, we didn't have a Top-20 class from 2000 (the first year they rank) until 2005 - and some of those classes didn't make the Top-FORTY!!

    USCw's "investigation" never seriously affected their recruiting (#2 class in 2009, #3 in 2010 and again in 2011). So Lane took over a NC Contender quality team, with NC Contender Depth - and pretty much had that level of talent on the field his whole time there. AND maybe that's why their "idiot" AD (Hall-of-Fame'er Pat Haden) wasn't too happy with 7-6 in 2012, and a 0-2 Conference start in 2013.

    We can debate which of Shula's Alabama teams was the least crippled by sanctions - but it's beyond dispute that Lane's WORST USCw roster was still VASTLY better than Shula's BEST Alabama roster. (and yes, some of that IS Shula's fault).

    IMO It's pretty doubtful that Lane Kiffin, for all his great offensive prowess, could have gotten to 10-0 and a #2 national ranking in November, even in the weak PAC-12, with the paper-thin roster Shula had in 2005.

    We could debate whether Brodie Croyle was as "NFL ready" (whatever that means) as Matt Barkley. Barkley was drafted #98, Brodie #85 - I'm not sure the NFL saw either of them as significantly better than the other?

    The supposed "Scholarship Loophole" at Knebraska is and was almost completely a MYTH, spread by jealous haters. - The same kind of toads who have cried for the past 50+ years that Bryant "Cheated" by __________ (fill in your favorite myth).

    AND even if it WAS a real thing - how many Div-1 players come out of NEBRASKA every year???? I mean, I could buy the story if we were talking about LA, or GA, or FL, or CA - but Nebraska?
    Yea - not so much.
    In fact, there are fewer NFL players from Nebraska than from Minnesota OR Colorado! - People argue that Tennessee can never win big again due to lack of local talent, right? The state of TN puts almost THREE TIMES as many guys into the NFL as the State of Nebraska!!!

    But riddle me this? If it's such a big advantage, then why have all subsequent Nebr. coaches failed to win NC's with that BIG advantage? Why didn't Pelini win at least a couple? Or even see an 11 win season...... even once?
    (Spoiler - it's really no advantage at all.)

    Osborne's career Winning percentage of 0.836 would put him in the TOP-5 among active coaches today - and ahead of a certain guy we all know and love. ...... Frankly, any school that doesn't have Nick Saban as coach would be pretty happy to have a guy as "average" at Tom Osborne!!!!! LOL!!!!!

    But, hey! Thanks for playing, all the same!!!!

  8. #176
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by TomFromBama View Post
    Oh LORD is this funny!!!

    Pelini wasn't that "Bad"? Ok, I mostly agree - he'd have been a "Rock Star" at Kansas or Texas Tech. But the fact is Pelini didn't match the record of Solich, a guy the Knebraska fans called a bust and demanded they fire.... So "it is what it is"......

    Yea, never won less than nine games... NOR won more than 10, and never LOST fewer than 4 games in any season he finished at Nebr.!!

    I don't really have a strong opinion either way on Frost. I'm no fan of Knebraska, but "IMO" CFB would be more interesting if another Blue Blood could return to the national stage.

    I'll give you O'Brien - but at the same time, would you accept an Alabama coach - even in a bad situation - who won less than 63% of his games?
    yea, I didn't think so!

    USCw's 2009 sanctions were actually Worse than our 2002 sanctions - the thing is, USCw didn't AMPLIFY their sanctions the way Alabama did, by
    (A) effectively losing almost a full year of recruiting by allowing Dumbose to hang on in 2000 when he lost the team,
    then
    (B) hiring a guy unable and/or unwilling to recruit and (for the most part) losing another two classes,
    then
    (C) replacing the second guy with an alcoholic who stayed at Washington St until January, barely recruited at all for UA, then flamed out before he'd been on campus 4 months - in effect costing us a FOURTH consecutive recruiting class.
    According to 24/7 sports, we didn't have a Top-20 class from 2000 (the first year they rank) until 2005 - and some of those classes didn't make the Top-FORTY!!

    USCw's "investigation" never seriously affected their recruiting (#2 class in 2009, #3 in 2010 and again in 2011). So Lane took over a NC Contender quality team, with NC Contender Depth - and pretty much had that level of talent on the field his whole time there. AND maybe that's why their "idiot" AD (Hall-of-Fame'er Pat Haden) wasn't too happy with 7-6 in 2012, and a 0-2 Conference start in 2013.

    We can debate which of Shula's Alabama teams was the least crippled by sanctions - but it's beyond dispute that Lane's WORST USCw roster was still VASTLY better than Shula's BEST Alabama roster. (and yes, some of that IS Shula's fault).

    IMO It's pretty doubtful that Lane Kiffin, for all his great offensive prowess, could have gotten to 10-0 and a #2 national ranking in November, even in the weak PAC-12, with the paper-thin roster Shula had in 2005.

    We could debate whether Brodie Croyle was as "NFL ready" (whatever that means) as Matt Barkley. Barkley was drafted #98, Brodie #85 - I'm not sure the NFL saw either of them as significantly better than the other?

    The supposed "Scholarship Loophole" at Knebraska is and was almost completely a MYTH, spread by jealous haters. - The same kind of toads who have cried for the past 50+ years that Bryant "Cheated" by __________ (fill in your favorite myth).

    AND even if it WAS a real thing - how many Div-1 players come out of NEBRASKA every year???? I mean, I could buy the story if we were talking about LA, or GA, or FL, or CA - but Nebraska?
    Yea - not so much.
    In fact, there are fewer NFL players from Nebraska than from Minnesota OR Colorado! - People argue that Tennessee can never win big again due to lack of local talent, right? The state of TN puts almost THREE TIMES as many guys into the NFL as the State of Nebraska!!!

    But riddle me this? If it's such a big advantage, then why have all subsequent Nebr. coaches failed to win NC's with that BIG advantage? Why didn't Pelini win at least a couple? Or even see an 11 win season...... even once?
    (Spoiler - it's really no advantage at all.)

    Osborne's career Winning percentage of 0.836 would put him in the TOP-5 among active coaches today - and ahead of a certain guy we all know and love. ...... Frankly, any school that doesn't have Nick Saban as coach would be pretty happy to have a guy as "average" at Tom Osborne!!!!! LOL!!!!!

    But, hey! Thanks for playing, all the same!!!!
    Nebraska had a ridiculous recruiting advantage until the NCAA finally stopped it. They had a policy statewide that each county could provide an athletic scholarship to UNL and UNO. That is 93 athletic scholarships. The theory was each county would have a player play at a sport for UNL and UNO. But here is the beef.... Omaha and Lincoln account for 80% of the population of Nebraska and are within a 45 minute radius of one another. Osbourne finally got wise to the idea that after 1983 the game had changed and corn fed bows weren’t going to beat Florida finesse players. So he started to use all of those 93 Nebraska scholarships on Omaha and Lincoln players, and would hide that the vast majority of them were football players by signing them as baseball, basketball, and etc players. All the while using the 25 NCAA allotted to get Texas, Missouri, and Florida players. He was basically doing what LSU baseball does with lottery scholarships. It’s no coincidence that Nebraska started hitting mediocrity after the NCAA basically said that the practice is unethical and against the rules.

    Nebraska now has to use their 25 scholarships on Instate AND National recruits. They can’t just use them on National because they can lose the few instate recruits that they desperately need. Tennessee and Nebraska will probably never see a good run in the next 40 years and 9-10 wins are probably the best they can hope for in low talent per capita states.
    Last edited by 81usaf92; July 11th, 2018 at 07:02 PM.

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