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  1. #92
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrayTide View Post
    I do not recall a public outcry when MSU fired Sylvester Croom.

    1) MSU isn't Alabama
    2) MSU only hired him to get a lighter probation from the NCAA
    3) MSU was not on probation when he was hired
    4) MSU is the school that snuck out during the days of Jim Crow to play a black basketball team, so their record on civil rights is
    much better than most others in the SEC
    "And if I die in Raleigh - at least I will die free"

    "In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Tuscaloosa underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the REC."

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  3. #93
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    I think you're conflating hirings, which is understandable. Parcells DID express interest - I'll never forget my utter shock reading that. It was kept "down home cuz," but Parcells indicated his interest on the day Franchione bolted, and a series of calls with Mal occurred. We basically said thanks, no thanks. But he wasn't in line for the 2003 spring job because he was announced as the Cowboys' new coach on January 3, 2003.
    Thanks for the correction. I never thought he was a viable option anyway whenever he was "in play". But at least he wasn't ashamed to be linked with Bama . As I said, I'm also unsure on the timing with Miles. I was also unsure on Parcells but forgot to mention it in my blurb about him.

    With Coughlin, who would obviously had been a homerun hire, I felt he would leave fairly quickly if something better came along, as it was likely to do - like the Giants. OTOH, I believe since he is probably an honorable man that he might have entered a gentleman's agreement to stay say 4 years before leaving.

    I still think Williamson, who "seemed" to have little personality, Idk, would have been a much better hire than either Shula or Croom. The main reason is that Mal who was a good judge of coaches wanted him. Also, his credentials were superior - he had been a decent college HC. The AD was right again. I don't blame Shula but primarily the circumstances. It was very hard to be a Bama athletics decision-maker at the time. And Shula at least avoided almost any embarrassing losses. But he could hardly win a big game with UF and 5-6 UT in 05 being the only exceptions. He lost so many close games. He had a very weak staff except for Kines.

  4. #94
    BamaNation All-SEC alwayshavebeen's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    Let me explain myself (others can if they wish).

    Stallings was not the best choice in 1990, Bobby Bowden was. And I'll admit I was wary of the hire given his record as head coach. Bowden took himself out of the running so Stallings wasn't a bad choice, and he DID have college coaching experience.
    Maybe I'm cherry picking from the entire post, but I seriously disagree with Stallings wasn't the best choice in 1990, and think the Stallings wasn't a bad choice comment is a major understatement. Only what if I have with that era is what if he had stayed another few years? Great Man and Great Coach IMO.

  5. #95
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayshavebeen View Post
    Maybe I'm cherry picking from the entire post, but I seriously disagree with Stallings wasn't the best choice in 1990, and think the Stallings wasn't a bad choice comment is a major understatement. Only what if I have with that era is what if he had stayed another few years? Great Man and Great Coach IMO.
    The biggest gripe I have with CGS is that he was too stubborn at times. The 94 season he handcuffed Homer Smith. I think he wouldn't have beaten Florida from 97-01. Dubose's 1st win was in spite of him, but in favor of an aggressive offense.

    I agree with Selma in that he was a good pick, but not the best pick. Bowden was the best pick
    "Aut viam inveniam aut faciam."

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  6. #96
    BamaNation All-American WylieTexasTider's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    I can see Saban coaching another 8-10 years assuming his health remains. My reasoning is two fold:

    1. Someone who talks to Saban and as recently as A-day chatted about the future, made it clear at a dinner recently he sees Nick coaching another 8-10 years. Reasoning was A. Nick only knows coaching and B. His Legacy.... (See #2 below) On a side, I commented great! we should win another couple of titles. The response was "Are you stupid? Try 4 or 5..."
    2. Nick needs 106 wins to pass The Bear in all time wins in College and 106 to pass The Bear for most wins as BAMA HC. If he averages just under 12 wins per year, that is 9 seasons. (Since Saban has been at BAMA the fewest wins he has averaged in any 4 year period is 12. (I did throw out 2007) Twice he has average over 13 wins and the 2018 team could hit a 14 win average if they run the table. To keep the 12 win average they need 7 wins.

    A dream would be if he coached till he was 80 like Bowden and averaged 13 wins... He'd hit 400. I know the chances of him coaching till he is 80 is like all of us becoming AUburn fans tonight but, food for thought.....
    "What happened yesterday is history. What happens tomorrow is a mystery. What we do today makes a difference - the precious present moment."-Nick Saban

  7. #97
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayshavebeen View Post
    Maybe I'm cherry picking from the entire post, but I seriously disagree with Stallings wasn't the best choice in 1990, and think the Stallings wasn't a bad choice comment is a major understatement. Only what if I have with that era is what if he had stayed another few years? Great Man and Great Coach IMO.
    When we chose Stallings, he had a worse career record than Bill Curry. To be fair, he also had a stellar career as a Landry assistant.

    Here are the names I found in the newspapers at the time:
    Bobby Bowden - the moment our job came open, he got offered that lifetime contract
    Mickey Andrews - FSU DC at the time
    Gene Stallings
    Howard Schnellenberger
    Danny Ford
    Richard Williamson


    I may be wrong, but from some comments that made it into the press at the time, I'm guessing Curry was likely gone anyway. One trustee was quoted as saying that the mere fact Curry was publicly ruminating about leaving Alabama for KENTUCKY of all places was harming the program.

    Btw - Stallings was actually interviewing and in the run for the Navy job when his name hit the news as a candidate for us. I'm NOT making that up. Navy. In fact, Stallings publicly withdrew from the Navy search because he wasn't willing to commit to them for as long as they wanted. Bowden's agent denied Bobby was even up for the job (BB was overseas coaching the Japan Bowl). Schnellenberger publicly said he wasn't interested. Also a name in the papers? Jimmy Fuller.

    On January 10, Hootie Ingram announced the search was down to four people: Stallings, Williamson, Andrews, and Fuller.

    Stallings by far had the best resume of those four.

    Maybe the view depends on whether or not Bowden could be considered a serious candidate in 1990; he certainly was in 1987.
    "And if I die in Raleigh - at least I will die free"

    "In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Tuscaloosa underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the REC."

  8. #98
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    This is a good and informative post, just a couple of things...



    Croom didn't get the job NOT because we didn't want to hire the black guy but because we didn't want to have to FIRE the black guy. There's not a doubt in my mind that played a role. He might have been minimally more successful than Shula, but I doubt it. And then when we canned him, the same folks who butchered us for not hiring him would have been the same folks saying, "But you were on probation and he never had a fair chance!"....
    I've said this for years. But men hear what they want to hear, and disregard the rest.
    You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

  9. #99
    BamaNation All-SEC alwayshavebeen's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by 81usaf92 View Post
    The biggest gripe I have with CGS is that he was too stubborn at times. The 94 season he handcuffed Homer Smith. I think he wouldn't have beaten Florida from 97-01. Dubose's 1st win was in spite of him, but in favor of an aggressive offense.

    I agree with Selma in that he was a good pick, but not the best pick. Bowden was the best pick
    Bowden won a grand total of 2 NC's in 34 years at FSU playing Independent 1976-1991, and then in a woefully weak ACC 1992-2009. In his last 10 years at FSU he lost 44 games and 22 in the last 5 years. Further... in his 18 seasons at FSU while playing in the ACC his record was 73-32...And for comparison sake from 1990 (the year CGS was hired) Bowden went 94-36 playing no where near the schedule Bama faced. IMO not very impressive at all.

  10. #100
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4Q Basket Case View Post
    I've said this for years. But men hear what they want to hear, and disregard the rest.
    Lie la lie
    Lie la lie lie lie lie lie
    Lie la lie
    "And if I die in Raleigh - at least I will die free"

    "In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Tuscaloosa underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the REC."

  11. July 6th, 2018, 09:38 PM

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  12. #101
    BamaNation All-SEC bama2112's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    I just hope the board has learned something from the fiasco of replacing CPB. Is history due to repeat itself. Many of you were not around when the search was on for CPB replacement. I would just hope they choose in a vacuum and at least listen to what CNS has to say about his replacement. Rumor has it the board went against CPB who want Gene Stallings.
    lem
    We really have no idea and all of this is just conjecture. I am for one glad that we will have to replace a 2nd time in my lifetime.

  13. July 6th, 2018, 10:22 PM

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  14. #102
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayshavebeen View Post
    snip
    Bowden built FSU from the ground up, Stallings was just the next emperor of a great empire that had a few bad apples.

    Bowden controlled Spurrier, Stallings couldn’t.

    Bowden at Alabama could’ve been the team of the 90’s, Stallings was just destined to be just a good strong team.
    Last edited by NationalTitles17; July 7th, 2018 at 09:38 PM.

  15. #103
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by bama2112 View Post
    I just hope the board has learned something from the fiasco of replacing CPB. Is history due to repeat itself. Many of you were not around when the search was on for CPB replacement.
    This will be ten times worse because of social media. There were long rumors of Bryant retiring plus the mandatory state law that there was the whole ruckus about getting changed or an exemption made. And Bryant actually looked older than he was, Saban looks younger than he actually is...so the rumors haven't really begun to crank up just yet. Saban's enthusiasm after the NCG game was truly remarkable, Bryant was a great interview, but he mumbled like a beloved grandfather by the end.


    Quote Originally Posted by bama2112 View Post
    I would just hope they choose in a vacuum and at least listen to what CNS has to say about his replacement. Rumor has it the board went against CPB who want Gene Stallings.
    We really have no idea and all of this is just conjecture. I am for one glad that we will have to replace a 2nd time in my lifetime.
    I'm torn on that because of the claim -and I heard it long before Saban came here - that he actually recommended Houston Nutt to replace him at LSU. Granted, he's much older and wiser now, but even at that time (2004) that has to rank as the most mind-boggling suggestion I've ever heard. It's about as stupid as faking a punt at the start of a national title game at your own 20 on fourth and 23, not that Saban would ever do anything that dumb.

    As far as the claim that Coach Bryant "wanted" Stallings to replace him....well, I've heard the same basic story about both Ray Perkins and Pat Dye. Bryant allegedly called Dye at Wyoming to tell him not to take the Auburn job when it opened up in 1980 because "you're gonna get this one." Again - how true this is, I have no idea. Bryant Jr said at the 1990 press conference, "This is what Poppa wanted," but why should anyone assume he actually knows? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.

    And what a lot of people don't recall - that would never happen today - is that Bryant announced his resignation and Perkins was announced the same day. The coaching search was rather quiet. OK, Stoops did it with Lincoln Riley, but you'd be hard-pressed for this to happen in the fall. However, I tend to doubt that Perkins would ever have been here unless Bryant gave him at least a certain level of endorsement, particularly since CPB was staying on as AD.
    "And if I die in Raleigh - at least I will die free"

    "In 1972, a crack commando unit was sent to prison by a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Tuscaloosa underground. Today, still wanted by the government, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire...the REC."

  16. July 7th, 2018, 06:18 AM

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  17. #104
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    Re: Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

    Quote Originally Posted by selmaborntidefan View Post
    This will be ten times worse because of social media. There were long rumors of Bryant retiring plus the mandatory state law that there was the whole ruckus about getting changed or an exemption made. And Bryant actually looked older than he was, Saban looks younger than he actually is...so the rumors haven't really begun to crank up just yet. Saban's enthusiasm after the NCG game was truly remarkable, Bryant was a great interview, but he mumbled like a beloved grandfather by the end.
    Agree. There was really no comparison between the two in regard to health and energy.

    I'm torn on that because of the claim -and I heard it long before Saban came here - that he actually recommended Houston Nutt to replace him at LSU. Granted, he's much older and wiser now, but even at that time (2004) that has to rank as the most mind-boggling suggestion I've ever heard. It's about as stupid as faking a punt at the start of a national title game at your own 20 on fourth and 23, not that Saban would ever do anything that dumb.
    That is not just a claim, I heard or maybe read, Coach Saban make that statement in some forum. IMO, Nutt is much better than many think. Many don't like the Rev Nutt aspect of his persona, nor do I. But in fact, he is very good as a game coach and is a great motivator. He gave Bama and Saban at LSU and Bama fits. OTOH, he is mediocre as a program coach at least in part because he is a lazy recruiter. IMO, he would have done much better than Miles for his first 3 or 4 years, then a perceptible decline would have begun. Nevertheless, I would not want him long term. But the bottom line is that CNS is not the AD. Consulted yes, decision no.

    That was not a called fake punt, it was an "automatic" call that is in place a lot of the time. I.e., if the punt team sees the return team in a certain formation, they have the option to fake. But because of Muschamp being on the UTx staff, they were aware and seduced Bama. Coach Saban's mistake, which he acknowledged, was that he should have turned off the "auto" because of CWM. But your point that CNS makes mistakes is certainly valid. We all make many.

    As far as the claim that Coach Bryant "wanted" Stallings to replace him....well, I've heard the same basic story about both Ray Perkins and Pat Dye. Bryant allegedly called Dye at Wyoming to tell him not to take the Auburn job when it opened up in 1980 because "you're gonna get this one." Again - how true this is, I have no idea. Bryant Jr said at the 1990 press conference, "This is what Poppa wanted," but why should anyone assume he actually knows? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
    While maybe no one here knows, I don't think it is a stretch to think that Coach Bryant's wishes would be know by his son and others. I believe him, especially since he has no reputation that I'm aware of for being deceitful. (I do no know him.) IMO, his statement that you quoted regarding Stallings was very true. I know that I would believe him before Pat Dye. But probably what happened with Dye was that Bryant didn't want him at AU and told him he had a legit chance and that he would support him. Not a lie, but he would support multiple choices who had a chance. Coach Bryant surely knew that he did not have full control of the process even though he was AD. He, like Coach Saban, had great respect for the COC. He supported Coach Perkins and would have supported Coach Dye and maybe others, but preferred Coach Stallings. Coach Bryant had great respect for Coach Stallings as a man and coach. He was probably his favorite. This was widely known in Alabama. I would be surprised if it were not true.

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