Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

NationalTitles18 · Jul 9, 2018

We can look at these hires objectively without context prior to the hire or in hindsight and get different results/opinions. Without context some hires that were good may look bad and some that were good may look bad.

For instance, in context Coach Stallings was a good hire because he could unite and stabilize a fractured convulsing base. He had some good experience, but nothing exciting or that would indicate he should run a program like Alabama necessarily. In hindsight it was mostly a good hire, though he was far from perfect. He was and is an outstanding man.

81usaf92 · Jul 9, 2018

KrAzY3 said:
I was around then, and admittedly Rich Rod looked better than, let's say Curry when he was hired... However, no one, no one at all from what I can recall was actually convinced that Rich Rod was as good as or better than Saban (I'd have argued at the time Spurrier was a better choice than those other three). And that's the point I was trying to make, go with the obvious choice, once that's out of the picture then you can go with plan b. Once the obvious choice was Bowden, once it was Saban, if this all went down tomorrow the obvious choice would be Dabo. And if Alabama finds a way out of making the obvious choice it will once again by their folly. There's plenty of young up and coming coaches a team can take a shot on, they're always there.

To underscore my viewpoint, which was the better hire, Saban at LSU or at Alabama? I'd argue Saban at Alabama was the better hire. Alabama at that point knew positively what they were getting. LSU couldn't have been as sure. So, to me a sure thing as a hire, and they might be rare but they exist, are many, many times better than taking a gamble on a up and comer.

Thanks, I was too young to remember the Curry hiring process. I remember him being the coach there but not further back, heh.

Really, what you described, along with being like watching a train wreck, I think really shows how a program can get lost trying to make a hire. I get one thing, I get worrying a race car driver will crash the car. I get saying hey look, if this guy wrecks our car, we can't even race so let's find someone who won't. I understand that part of it, but when you get to the point you're like well... this guy isn't even a good race car driver, but he never, ever, ever crashes, that's what the Curry and Shula hires felt like to me. For some reason in both cases Alabama set aside almost all football related elements of the choice, and chose what they saw as the safest possible choice. They just didn't bother with making how good a football coach either were part of the equation.

Spurrier and Saban both turned us down before we moved to Rich Rod. I think the issue was Mal was willing to take his time and force CNS to say no after the season but the BOT and others believed the home run picks were done and we were looking at Rich Rod as the best available at that time.

Bazza · Jul 9, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
In 1963, leaving Florida for Alabama would have made perfect sense.

Why would anyone do that now?

I don't think Mullen is "in the cards" nor do I think he would come. I don't think Smart would come, either, but I'd be open to the possibility. Dabo is the wild card because he has been successful building and sustaining a program and played here. But would he want to do that?

1963?

He wasn't born until 1972 so not sure what you mean, unless you are talking about 2008 - when he left Florida to become head coach at Mississippi State.

I'm not sure he would come either - just wondered if anyone on this board would consider him as a potential candidate.

For me, this coming season at Florida will be very interesting (on several levels) seeing what he can do there.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 9, 2018

Bazza said:
1963?

He wasn't born until 1972 so not sure what you mean, unless you are talking about 2008 - when he left Florida to become head coach at Mississippi State.

I'm not sure he would come either - just wondered if anyone on this board would consider him as a potential candidate.

For me, this coming season at Florida will be very interesting (on several levels) seeing what he can do there.

I'm speaking hypothetically.

Let's say Coach Bryant was at Florida in 1963 and Alabama called. It was the better job then, the more success launch. (This, of course, assumes
a limited vacuum that Bryant would himself have fixed).

I can't see say a Spurrier or Urban Meyer NOWADAYS leaving Florida to go TO Alabama to coach. That's what I was saying.

DzynKingRTR · Jul 9, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
Indeed, in the name of honesty, who I wanted.....

Perkins - didn't know enough about it
Curry - Bowden
Stallings - Bowden
DuBose - Beamer
Franchione - Tommy Bowden (yes, I'm stupid sometimes myself)
Price - Coughlin (I did, however, think Price was one of the better of the names I was hearing
Shula - Shula (because I figured whoever got it was toast)
Saban - Saban

The hiring of Saban was the ONLY one about which I was ever ecstatic.

Don't beat yourself up. After Stallings stepped down, I wanted Rick Neuheisel. That keeps me up at night.

RedWave · Jul 9, 2018

DzynKingRTR said:
Don't beat yourself up. After Stallings stepped down, I wanted Rick Neuheisel. That keeps me up at night.

Yep. Me too. Him and Davis. To be honest, I barely knew who Beamer was at the time, or he might have been my choice.

BamaInBham · Jul 9, 2018

DzynKingRTR said:
Don't beat yourself up. After Stallings stepped down, I wanted Rick Neuheisel. That keeps me up at night.

Don't let it keep you up. He had coached for 2 years at Colorado: 10-2, 10-2. He was one of the hottest coaches in the country. He would tail off the next 2 years, then go to Wash where in his 2nd year he went 11-1 won a PAC 10 title and the Rose Bowl and finished 3rd in the AP. Again he tailed of a bit and was fired 2 years later over the bogus "office pool" fiasco. He had problems in his program, but the reason given for his firing seemed like a joke. Several years later he would bomb at UCLA. But in 1997 he was hot, though IMO he would not have been a good fit at Bama. He did have ties to Bama via friendship with Pat Trammell's son and has attended Bama home game(s) with him.

Bazza · Jul 9, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
I'm speaking hypothetically.

Let's say Coach Bryant was at Florida in 1963 and Alabama called. It was the better job then, the more success launch. (This, of course, assumes
a limited vacuum that Bryant would himself have fixed).

I can't see say a Spurrier or Urban Meyer NOWADAYS leaving Florida to go TO Alabama to coach. That's what I was saying.

OK....gotcha....makes sense now.

I agree about Coaches Spurrier and Meyer -- but Mullen is so much younger and IMHO he'd be a better fit than some mentioned earlier in the thread. But yeah...why would he leave Florida to go to Bama.....wouldn't make sense.

BamaInBham · Jul 9, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
The Bill Curry hiring was one of the most insane coaching searches I have ever seen. It was the first where I lived close enough to get the day to day details, plus Perkins was announced the day that Bryant stepped down (as should have been the case). I have no way of knowing what went on behind the scenes, but I seriously wonder - if the story about Culverhouse taking Perkins off our hands was true - well, how in the world did we wind up with BILL CURRY from the list I showed above?

I can tell you what my 17-year old mind at the time was thinking when I heard the names:

Jackie Sherrill - cheater, we don't want him (this is who I feared we would get) IMO, he was never under consideration.

Danny Ford - cheater, we don't want him (to be fair - bayoutider knew Danny Ford as both were from Gadsden; he insisted over and over that while Ford did bear the ultimate responsibility for what was uncovered, Ford had tried to clean up the mess set in place by his predecessor, Charley Pell. But in 1986, Ford was still "the guy who was there when Clemson got put on probation") IMO, he was never under consideration.

Howard Schnellenberger - I didn't know about his trouble with the sauce at the time (or the repeated claims of him propositioning women), but I didn't want him, and I'll tell you why: at that time, Schnellenberger was quickly getting a rep as a Larry Brown or even an early career Nick Saban, a guy who didn't stay in one place too long. Some of it was not his fault. He won a national title, bolted for a nonexistent USFL gig, and wound up at Louisville's then disaster.

Steve Sloan - a totally inept head coach who would have been a disaster He did a great job at Vanderbilt - went 7-3-2 his 2nd/last year and took them to their 2nd bowl in history, had a winning record in his 2 years; Parcells on his staff. At Texas Tech in 2nd yr went 10-2 and won/tied SWC; winning record all 3 years. Don't know what happened at OM, then Duke - bad but not terrible. (When he left Bama as a player, I was sure he would replace Coach Bryant. I was a kid. )

I thought Bobby Bowden - even BEFORE he built the Florida State dynasty - was THE choice for us to replace Ray Perkins.

Indeed, in the name of honesty, who I wanted.....

Perkins - didn't know enough about it AD Bryant wanted Stallings - I believe his son - but supported Perkins and I would guess others. Perkins was one of the few Bama players I never liked. He seemed hard as flint, though he turned out more personable than I thought and his players loved him. Which shocked me. Joab Thomas....

Curry - Bowden Agree completely. And I was convinced it was going to happen. I was ecstatic. Joab Thomas....

Stallings - Bowden Not sure that Bowden would take the job at this time. Maybe if it was just offered to him, but possibly not even then.

DuBose - Beamer Agree

Franchione - Tommy Bowden (yes, I'm stupid sometimes myself) IMO, T. Bowden would not have been a bad choice at the time, though, like DF, he would not have been a good fit. There were no homerun hires for Bama at that time, nor many good fits. He was a decent coach, though IMO, not as good as DF.

Price - Coughlin (I did, however, think Price was one of the better of the names I was hearing) IMO, Coach Moore did a good job going with Price because Coughlin would almost assuredly have left soon apart from some type of agreement. TC had done a good job at BC and a great job at expansion Jax. He would be in demand and the Giants hired him the next year.

Shula - Shula (because I figured whoever got it was toast) Again, I think Coach Moore's choice of Richard Williamson was far superior to Shula. Though Mike's teams fought hard and never embarrassed, he just rarely got over the hump against a good opponent. OTOH, he almost always played them tough and tight.

Saban - Saban

The hiring of Saban was the ONLY one about which I was ever ecstatic.

All of the above goes to show that the AD must make the hire. In each case there was a bad hire or almost one (RRod) it was because the Pres/ persons of influence/boosters/etc. or fans overrode the wishes of the AD. Every AD choice IMO was a good choice under the circumstances. If those in authority don't trust the AD to make the choice then replace him with one you do trust. The AD should be a person who understands what it takes to be a successful coach at this place, at this time. That's his job, that is what he has experience doing. There is frequently a fine line between a good choice and a bad one. He is the person who is most qualified to perceive it. Even the horrible Bob Bochrath's choice to replace Stallings with Beamer, or others if ncessary, was far superior to the fans' and persons' of influence choice of DuBose.

BamaMoon · Jul 9, 2018

DzynKingRTR said:
Don't beat yourself up. After Stallings stepped down, I wanted Rick Neuheisel. That keeps me up at night.

I admit I wanted Steve Spurrier after Shula. I think he could have been successful at Bama, but probably nothing like CNS.

TomFromBama · Jul 9, 2018

BamaInBham said:
All of the above goes to show that the AD must make the hire. In each case there was a bad hire or almost one (RRod) it was because the Pres/ persons of influence/boosters/etc. or fans overrode the wishes of the AD. Every AD choice IMO was a good choice under the circumstances. If those in authority don't trust the AD to make the choice then replace him with one you do trust. The AD should be a person who understands what it takes to be a successful coach at this place, at this time. That's his job, that is what he has experience doing. There is frequently a fine line between a good choice and a bad one. He is the person who is most qualified to perceive it. Even the horrible Bob Bochrath's choice to replace Stallings with Beamer, or others if ncessary, was far superior to the fans' and persons' of influence choice of DuBose.

Respectfully, friend - What you've presented is a FALSE CHOICE.

IF the choice was between the AD on the one hand, vs. the Boosters/Power-Brokers/Meddling-University-Presidents on the other hand - Heck Yea!!!
Athletics Director choice Every Single Time!

But what you were arguing back on page 4 (and I was disagreeing with) is that the COACH should NOT make the hire, OR even have "an inordinate amount of influence" on hiring his replacement.

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE! I think Coach Saban SHOULD have an "Inordinate amount of influence" - IF not an outright "Carte Blanche" grant to make the hire on his own. I stand by that.

Look, I have TONS of respect for Greg Byrne! I think he's probably doing a competent job at UA. He made some good hires back at MSU. At UA, ..... well, to be charitable, lets just say "the jury is still out"..... (Brad Bohannon says Hi! )
But,
- IS BYRNE The INDISPUTABLE BEST A.D. In The HISTORY OF COLLEGE ATHLETICS?

Maybe he is - but I am NOT prepared to bestow that accolade on him Just yet.....

All I'm saying is - as between the guy that hired Bohannon, and Coach Saban, one of THE Very Best HC's in the Entire History of the game - I'm going to give the ball to Nick Saban.

And JUST as a "PS" - we've had AD's make WRETCHED hires!
Bockrath may not have "Wanted" Dumbose as his "First Choice" - but he Still consented to it. Worst hire in the history of Alabama football, IMO! (And before anyone says it - Ears Whitworth did NOT get us on Probation!

)
I LOVE Coach Moore, but he was 100% responsible for hiring Coach Fraud - an absolute BUST of a hire, AND Coach Price - who came here with a MASSIVE DRINKING PROBLEM And an "0-fer-life" record in Big Games. Perhaps the second worst coaching hire at Alabama in the past 50 years.....

Just sayin'. . . .

GrayTide · Jul 9, 2018

I agree with Bill, I always figured Steve Sloan would return to Alabama as HC. He won at Vanderbilt and Texas Tech which is hard to figure, but bombed at Ole Miss. Sloan was always one of Coach Bryant's favorites and had all the qualities you would want in a HC; if he had won at Ole Miss I am sure he would have been the HC at Alabama at some point, but that is pure speculation.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 9, 2018

GrayTide said:
I agree with Bill, I always figured Steve Sloan would return to Alabama as HC. He won at Vanderbilt and Texas Tech which is hard to figure, but bombed at Ole Miss. Sloan was always one of Coach Bryant's favorites and had all the qualities you would want in a HC; if he had won at Ole Miss I am sure he would have been the HC at Alabama at some point, but that is pure speculation.

I'm researching newspapers for a write-up for the 1978 national championship team and Sloan's name has come up during that year more than once as the presumed successor to Bryant. IF he had won at Ole Miss, I think it would have been him - at least based on what was reported (who knows behind the scenes, as I always pointed out).

selmaborntidefan · Jul 9, 2018

BamaMoon said:
I admit I wanted Steve Spurrier after Shula. I think he could have been successful at Bama, but probably nothing like CNS.

I didn't, but let me mansplain why.

I thought Spurrier left Florida IN PART because that national title had raised expectations to the point that most seasons were going to be disappointments. The pressure was enormous. I figured his taking the SC job was a way for him to build something, to keep things on an even keel, and not spend 24/7 of his life worrying about appeasing anyone. When he took over, SC celebrated nine-win seasons and decent bowl game wins about like we do national titles.

I just couldn't imagine him jumping back into that frying pan in 2007.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 9, 2018

DzynKingRTR said:
Don't beat yourself up. After Stallings stepped down, I wanted Rick Neuheisel. That keeps me up at night.

This reminds me of something totally weird.

One of my Sunday School teachers at the time was a UGA fan (he was from the Atlanta area so what do you expect?). I was there at church the Sunday night we hired Bill Curry, and this guy is thinking we hired the perfect coach. And when I rolled my 17-year old eyes, he snorted, "It could be much worse, you get Charley Pell running things and wind up on probation. Curry will win nine games a year and run a clean program. You have to accept that Bear Bryant's days are long gone and never coming back."

Three years and a week later, I was the one who informed him at a Wednesday night service that Gene Stallings was the new coach. He thought Stallings was a horrible hire, a sub-.500 coach and big-time loser in the NFL. I have to admit I wasn't sure he was wrong.

Neuheisel? Just one look at that due and I saw, "CHEATER!" in neon lights. Eddie Haskell no doubt.

selmaborntidefan · Jul 9, 2018

BamaInBham said:
All of the above goes to show that the AD must make the hire. In each case there was a bad hire or almost one (RRod) it was because the Pres/ persons of influence/boosters/etc. or fans overrode the wishes of the AD. Every AD choice IMO was a good choice under the circumstances. If those in authority don't trust the AD to make the choice then replace him with one you do trust. The AD should be a person who understands what it takes to be a successful coach at this place, at this time. That's his job, that is what he has experience doing. There is frequently a fine line between a good choice and a bad one. He is the person who is most qualified to perceive it. Even the horrible Bob Bochrath's choice to replace Stallings with Beamer, or others if ncessary, was far superior to the fans' and persons' of influence choice of DuBose.

I actually agree with you that Sherrill and Ford were not under consideration - BECAUSE of their pasts. Sloan did okay at first, but......

The Bobby Bowden miss hurt us on so many levels, though.

81usaf92 · Jul 9, 2018

TomFromBama said:
Respectfully, friend - What you've presented is a FALSE CHOICE.

IF the choice was between the AD on the one hand, vs. the Boosters/Power-Brokers/Meddling-University-Presidents on the other hand - Heck Yea!!!
Athletics Director choice Every Single Time!

But what you were arguing back on page 4 (and I was disagreeing with) is that the COACH should NOT make the hire, OR even have "an inordinate amount of influence" on hiring his replacement.

I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE! I think Coach Saban SHOULD have an "Inordinate amount of influence" - IF not an outright "Carte Blanche" grant to make the hire on his own. I stand by that.

Look, I have TONS of respect for Greg Byrne! I think he's probably doing a competent job at UA. He made some good hires back at MSU. At UA, ..... well, to be charitable, lets just say "the jury is still out"..... (Brad Bohannon says Hi! )
But,
- IS BYRNE The INDISPUTABLE BEST A.D. In The HISTORY OF COLLEGE ATHLETICS?

Maybe he is - but I am NOT prepared to bestow that accolade on him Just yet.....

All I'm saying is - as between the guy that hired Bohannon, and Coach Saban, one of THE Very Best HC's in the Entire History of the game - I'm going to give the ball to Nick Saban.

And JUST as a "PS" - we've had AD's make WRETCHED hires!
Bockrath may not have "Wanted" Dumbose as his "First Choice" - but he Still consented to it. Worst hire in the history of Alabama football, IMO! (And before anyone says it - Ears Whitworth did NOT get us on Probation! )
I LOVE Coach Moore, but he was 100% responsible for hiring Coach Fraud - an absolute BUST of a hire, AND Coach Price - who came here with a MASSIVE DRINKING PROBLEM And an "0-fer-life" record in Big Games. Perhaps the second worst coaching hire at Alabama in the past 50 years.....

Just sayin'. . . .

But again where has a Bama coach’s endorsement let alone a Saban coaching endorsement ever worked? Keep in mind Saban recommended Houston Nutt for LSU. I think the AD who hired Miles had a better recommendation of Saban’s replacement than Saban.

GrayTide · Jul 9, 2018

I will admit that I was somewhat disappointed when CGS was announced as our new HC. Even though he beat Coach Bryant in the Cotton Bowl while at TAMU; he was eventually fired at College Station. He was a solid assistant in Dallas, but did not do well with the Cardinals. After he started 0-3 in 1990 I went into a deep funk. Of course he salvaged that season, beating both UT and auburn. The rest is history as they say, which is evidence that no one knows what the hell may or may not happen when hiring a HC, especially at Alabama.

BamaMoon · Jul 9, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
I didn't, but let me mansplain why.

I thought Spurrier left Florida IN PART because that national title had raised expectations to the point that most seasons were going to be disappointments. The pressure was enormous. I figured his taking the SC job was a way for him to build something, to keep things on an even keel, and not spend 24/7 of his life worrying about appeasing anyone. When he took over, SC celebrated nine-win seasons and decent bowl game wins about like we do national titles.

I just couldn't imagine him jumping back into that frying pan in 2007.

You are probably right...but I really didn't understand the benefit CNS would bring (nobody did fully - see thread on NC expectations). I remember hearing CSS didn't like recruiting and it was widely reported he'd rather be on the golf course (USC became a good choice for that), but I do think he was a good enough coach that Bama would've sharpened him and not broke him. I think he could have won 1 or 2 titles at Bama, but again, if he comes CNS doesn't so I would change a thing now.

CullmanTide · Jul 9, 2018

I hope this thread last another 10 years or so.

Offseason Question: When Saban Retires.....Who?

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