75th Anniversary of Allied Invasion of Sicily

Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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Monty and Patton now that was a marriage made in heaven!
Monty was, in my view, fairly good in a set-piece battle which did not involve fleeting opportunities and require rapid decisions. He was dreadfully slow, however. His slowness to Messina allowed tens of thousands of German troops to escape, German troops the Allies would have to face again and again. At the same time, the Allied Supreme Commander should have had every submarine and airplane in the theater working the Straits of Messina to sink anything ferrying troops from Sicily to the Toe of Italy, but he didn't. That was on Ike.

Paton was the kind of guy you want on your team, but you sure did not want to work for him.
 

GrayTide

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Nov 15, 2005
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If not out of respect for Churchill and the willingness of GB to hang on for so long against overwhelming odds, would Eisenhower have yielded to Monty's arrogance? As for Patton, he got things done, but ultimately suffered the consequences for what was not then called "political correctness".
 

BamaInMo1

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Oct 27, 2006
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This, im my opinion, was one of the hardest fought campeigns in Europe. The Germans constantly held the high ground in the mountains making this an uphill battle all the way (no pun intended). I think fighting in the mountains like that could be worse than urban fighting. In that day anyway.
 

Tidewater

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This, im my opinion, was one of the hardest fought campeigns in Europe. The Germans constantly held the high ground in the mountains making this an uphill battle all the way (no pun intended). I think fighting in the mountains like that could be worse than urban fighting. In that day anyway.
The Allies needed to be fighting somewhere to prove to Stalin they were doing something to draw German troops away from the Russian front.
If I was "Smiling Albert" Kesselring (German theater commander), I would have prayed that the Allies would invade Italy exactly as they did: starting at the toe and working their way up.
On the other hand, what would have worried me a lot was an invasion around Livorno (the Allies liberated Corsica in September 1943, so Livorno was within range of land-based fighter aircraft). A landing at Livorno should have kept Kesselring up at night with worry.
 

UAH

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The Allies needed to be fighting somewhere to prove to Stalin they were doing something to draw German troops away from the Russian front.
If I was "Smiling Albert" Kesselring (German theater commander), I would have prayed that the Allies would invade Italy exactly as they did: starting at the toe and working their way up.
On the other hand, what would have worried me a lot was an invasion around Livorno (the Allies liberated Corsica in September 1943, so Livorno was within range of land-based fighter aircraft). A landing at Livorno should have kept Kesselring up at night with worry.
There is an interesting documentary on Netflix about Churchill's advocating for attacking what he called "Hitler's Soft Underbelly". I believe that it can be said that Marshall advocated for a channel crossing as soon as possible but Churchill argued against it due the specter of Dunkirk and British losses in WW l.

The Brits position was no doubt much enhanced by Monty's success at El Alamein and the American's receiving a bloody nose in their first time out in Africa.

It was said that the soft underbelly had become the Crocodile's tough snout with the allied armies mired down slogging their way up the boot. Monte Cassino proved to be a classic example of facing an entrenched enemy who possessed command of the high ground.

Regardless of the correctness of the strategy of invading Italy one could say that the American's were well battle hardened for the final assault on the continent.
 

Tidewater

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There is an interesting documentary on Netflix about Churchill's advocating for attacking what he called "Hitler's Soft Underbelly". I believe that it can be said that Marshall advocated for a channel crossing as soon as possible but Churchill argued against it due the specter of Dunkirk and British losses in WW l.

The Brits position was no doubt much enhanced by Monty's success at El Alamein and the American's receiving a bloody nose in their first time out in Africa.

It was said that the soft underbelly had become the Crocodile's tough snout with the allied armies mired down slogging their way up the boot. Monte Cassino proved to be a classic example of facing an entrenched enemy who possessed command of the high ground.

Regardless of the correctness of the strategy of invading Italy one could say that the American's were well battle hardened for the final assault on the continent.
Interesting.
The only division I believe that saw action in Sicily and then went to England for the Normandy invasion was the 1st Infantry Division (1ID) and the 82nd Airborne Division. Most of the troops used in Normandy had been sent directly to England and then straight to Normandy.
There were three divisions that were withdrawn from action in Italy and used to invade southern France (3ID, 36ID and 45ID), but most of the troops that went to Italy got battle hardened in Italy and stayed in Italy.

Churchill was a great war PM, but this "soft underbelly" stuff was garbage. A huge waste of time, treasure, and blood. (Which is NOT to say the men who fought there were not brave and doing their best, just that their efforts did not contribute very much to Germany's defeat).
 

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