What was the third Saturday in October like before Fulmer?

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81usaf92

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Kinda showing my age here. First TSIO I remember was 92.


I’ve always knew that CPB always had a hatred for Tennessee, but it seems like anything talked about this rivalry in its current form always goes back to 1994 when Peyton Manning nearly beat us in Knoxville, and the next decade of back stabbing and trash talk by the Vols. That period is where Tennessee went above Auburn to me in most hated teams.

But before Fulmer was the rival still filled with vile hatred or was it just a cross state rivalry with a rich tradition?
 
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B1GTide

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Per my late FiL, it was a healthy rivalry between two programs with a lot of respect for one another.
 

AlexanderFan

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From the way people talk it was like respectful hate. The kind of rivalry where you would sit down and drink after you tried to kill each other.


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Tide&True

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It use to be a mutual respect kind of thing before Fulmer came along. Both teams knew how much it meant to the fan base. It was special to see the Crimson and Orange on a crisp October day. It was the definition of college football at its best. Also, more of the players were from each respective state...not from 5 to 10 states away. Much like the 50-50 ticket split in the Iron Bowl every year those days are long past.


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GrayTide

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Prior to the Fulmer era the Bama vs UT rivalry was the best in the SEC, one of the most followed throughout college football. With the exception of a few years here and there, the winner of The Third Saturday in October was likely the SEC champ. It was a bitter, spirited rivalry, but as I recall there was a lot of respect between the programs and its fans, unlike auburn. BTW, in those days the UT band had not introduced "Rocky Top" which now irritates the hell out of all Alabama fans.
 

DzynKingRTR

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Quite frankly if the game stopped being played annually not much of the younger generation would care. Fulmer soured me so much, I might not care either.
 

Tideflyer

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From the way people talk it was like respectful hate. The kind of rivalry where you would sit down and drink after you tried to kill each other.


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That`s pretty much it. IMHO, it wasn`t a visceral hatred per se. You knew it was going to be a war that Saturday, and it was the season`s yardstick, for the most part. Fulmer, with a big assist from Roy Kramer, changed all that and ruined the best rivalry the conference has ever seen.
 

NationalTitles18

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I remember hating the Vols but respecting Johnny Majors. It was a measure of how good the team was. It was on par with ND and AU at the time. Strong and bitter, but respectful. Respect flew out the window with Phil Fulmer's antics.
 

selmaborntidefan

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Kinda showing my age here. First TSIO I remember was 92.


I’ve always knew that CPB always had a hatred for Tennessee, but it seems like anything talked about this rivalry in its current form always goes back to 1994 when Peyton Manning nearly beat us in Knoxville, and the next decade of back stabbing and trash talk by the Vols. That period is where Tennessee went above Auburn to me in most hated teams.

But before Fulmer was the rival still filled with vile hatred or was it just a cross state rivalry with a rich tradition?
It was sheer and glorious beauty my friend. Of course, I'm assuming you know this and don't, but it was the SEC version of Alabama-Penn State. A lot of times you have Alabama fans whose "second favorite team" was Tennessee. It was like the civil war (not literally) in that two brothers would have a three-hour fist fight, the loser would raise the winner's hand, and they'd go have a beer afterwards. When Auburn beat us, there was resentment. When Tennessee beat us, there was respect.

It was all a rivalry SHOULD be. It's what the Iron Bowl SHOULD be. The only thing that's been kind of similar lately is when the two Mississippi schools were ranked in the top five in 2014, and both were publicly rooting for each other (whatever was said behind the scenes).

Coach Bryant respected Coach Neyland. His beef with Tennessee (small by comparison) might be because former Tide player Bill Battle was the Vols coach from 1970-76, and even though he never had a losing season and there were issues beyond his control, they fired him (granted, he was regressing record-wise). After all, Bryant would have had a thing with Tennessee going back through his time as Kentucky coach and on back to when he played as "the other end" to Don Hutson.

It's gone, and it's never coming back. If Phil Fulmer would have beaten us on the up and up, it would be a gallant rivalry of respect. Hell, they beat us four years in a row (1982-85) and nary a word of protest from us. They were the better team at least three of those years. But Fulmer knew his job security depended on beating Alabama at least every so often (he'd watched Battle and Majors both get canned, hell, he stuck the knife in Majors's back and told him it was a massage).

Incidentally, much of the bad blood between Florida and Tennessee (aside from their division rivalry) stems from the Vols voting in 1985 to strip Florida of their first-ever SEC title. The Gators DID win it on the field, but they opted to forego the Sugar Bowl, knowing severe sanctions were coming. In May 1985, the SEC had a vote and it was a 6-4 vote to strip Florida of the title and not recognize a champion in 1984. Florida, MSU, Alabama, and Auburn all voted to permit Florida to keep their crown. Tennessee voted against them, and given some of the crossover between the two schools (sort of like us with Clemson or ATM), this was considered a betrayal. After all, a Vols vote would have given Florida their first SEC title with a 5-5 decision (or at least forced it on Boyd McWhorter).
 

Crimson White

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As these guys have said, it was a mostly respectful rivalry till Fulmer helped to kill that, but let's not forget Roy Kramer's role in it all.
 

Go Bama

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I grew up hating UT football. My father disliked General Neyland and claimed UT always played “dirty” football. I know a lot of people on this board who live in Alabama talk about the respectful rivalry, but it was never like that at my house growing up in the 60’s. UT has always been bitterly hated. It was probably a combination of Dad having played at Vanderbilt, living in Tennessee, and working in Alabama.


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Crimson White

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Well, I think I remember reading that Coach Bryant said something to the effect of "You don't know how good you are till you play Tennessee" . That seems like respect to me, which is what I mean. I'm not sure if I hate Tennessee and Auburn, but I sure don't like either of them.

edit after reading some more posts, and no offense intended, but Tennessee was never, ever, not in a million years my 2nd favorite team. I despise em, but I don't think that precludes what used to be some respect.
 
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Crimson White

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Per my late FiL, it was a healthy rivalry between two programs with a lot of respect for one another.
Oh, so your FIL was an Alabama fan? I had wondered what connection you had to UA, because you're obviously more knowledgeable about our program than most fans that might consider UA a 2nd favorite team or whatever.

For what it's worth, I like Ohio State pretty good too, or at least I respect their program. Course, I generally like Michigan ok too (not wild about Harbaugh), and I realize that's like saying you like Alabama and Auburn. Kind of mutually exclusive.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I vaguely remember what it was like before Fat Boy Feeeel dropped a warm fresh one in the wedding punch bowl. There was a lot of respect between the programs and fanbase. Now? The punch has soured and I don't mean soured into a good bourbon/whiskey.
 

RedWave

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My stepfather claims UT as a second favorite team. My real father claims AU as a second favorite. I don't even really know how you can have one of those, especially among teams that play each other year. What, are you just hedging your bets for one of your tougher games of the year? I will say I do have a second, as I graduated from Troy State. Note this was before they dropped the State. Back then, they were, in the way I view it, what would today be an FCS team. So, not a rival of Bama and not even eligible to win the same title. Troy broke the deal by moving up, but are never a threat to Alabama, so I just pull for them to win what is in front of them.

Back on the Tennessee thing. I had always thought of that as a healthy rivalry, and was hoping we could return to that after Fulmer left. But he isn't yet all the way gone, so I guess we wait and just keep on hating.
 

BamaMoon

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I'll put a little different spin on it.

My love for the TSIO goes back to the late 70's and early 80's. It was a time when not many Bama games would be on TV, but you could count on this one. It signaled "autumn" had arrived. It was a contrast of the top two schools in the SEC, historically. And the contrasts in Crimson and Orange could not have been more unique, except in the peaceful harmony between the two in the fall foilage and in the stands of Neyland and Legion Field. It was a great rivalry!

Here's where I differ with most: I still love love the rivalry. But it's despite what Fulmer and Kramer did. It's despite the fact that since the 80's we've both had times of being up and down. But having lived in Tennessee for several years, I think the people in east Tennessee are generally good people. Although they hate Alabama with the heat of 10,000 suns, they are generally good folks. I don't blame the average fan for what the dorks who tried to ruin the rivalry.

Honestly, what the rivalry really needs is for CJP to bring the Vols back to life and, although we'll hate it, to occasionally have a good enough team to beat us and win the east. That's what the SECE needs and it will help the whole conference for Tennessee to be good again. And that's what will make this "rivalry" relevant again.
 

TomFromBama

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It was sheer and glorious beauty my friend. Of course, I'm assuming you know this and don't, but it was the SEC version of Alabama-Penn State. A lot of times you have Alabama fans whose "second favorite team" was Tennessee. It was like the civil war (not literally) in that two brothers would have a three-hour fist fight, the loser would raise the winner's hand, and they'd go have a beer afterwards. When Auburn beat us, there was resentment. When Tennessee beat us, there was respect.

It was all a rivalry SHOULD be. It's what the Iron Bowl SHOULD be. The only thing that's been kind of similar lately is when the two Mississippi schools were ranked in the top five in 2014, and both were publicly rooting for each other (whatever was said behind the scenes).

Coach Bryant respected Coach Neyland. His beef with Tennessee (small by comparison) might be because former Tide player Bill Battle was the Vols coach from 1970-76, and even though he never had a losing season and there were issues beyond his control, they fired him (granted, he was regressing record-wise). After all, Bryant would have had a thing with Tennessee going back through his time as Kentucky coach and on back to when he played as "the other end" to Don Hutson.

It's gone, and it's never coming back. If Phil Fulmer would have beaten us on the up and up, it would be a gallant rivalry of respect. Hell, they beat us four years in a row (1982-85) and nary a word of protest from us. They were the better team at least three of those years. But Fulmer knew his job security depended on beating Alabama at least every so often (he'd watched Battle and Majors both get canned, hell, he stuck the knife in Majors's back and told him it was a massage).

Incidentally, much of the bad blood between Florida and Tennessee (aside from their division rivalry) stems from the Vols voting in 1985 to strip Florida of their first-ever SEC title. The Gators DID win it on the field, but they opted to forego the Sugar Bowl, knowing severe sanctions were coming. In May 1985, the SEC had a vote and it was a 6-4 vote to strip Florida of the title and not recognize a champion in 1984. Florida, MSU, Alabama, and Auburn all voted to permit Florida to keep their crown. Tennessee voted against them, and given some of the crossover between the two schools (sort of like us with Clemson or ATM), this was considered a betrayal. After all, a Vols vote would have given Florida their first SEC title with a 5-5 decision (or at least forced it on Boyd McWhorter).
Darn you, Selma! ;) Wish I could say it better, but I can't!

So I'll just pile on! - For my "nickel" - it was a rivalry, with "hatred", but it was "sports-hatred" if you get my drift; vs. the ACTUAL HATRED so many boogs have for The University. I'd call it "Grudging Respect". If you consider, Foulmer stuck his knife in Johnny Majors' back in 1991/92 ? if memory serves. UP to that point, there were TWO clear "Top" programs in the SEC, and no one else was really even close - #1 Alabama and #2 Tennessee. Up to that time, the UA-UT game was usually the biggest SEC game of the year, and had decided MORE SEC TITLES than any other rivalry.

aubarn was like your obnoxious little brother who constantly tried to make your life miserable. Sure, you never wanted to lose to that PEST. But Tennessee was the kid across the street who could legitimately match up to you, step for step. Beating THAT guy MEANT SOMETHING. I think the UA-PSU rivalry of the 1980's is a pretty good analog - A worthy opponent that deserved respect, and Alabama earnest wanted, not just to win the game, but to BEAT that opponent every time we played.

Trivia - UT fans are quick to tell us that Bryant never beat Neyland. And that's true. But what the WON'T tell you is that Bryant only faced Neyland when Bryant was coaching UK. Neyland retired after the 1952 season, so Neyland never played a Bryant-coached Alabama team. ;)

FWIW, I really hate what foulmer did to this once great rivalry, and "IMO" UT fans deserve EVERY BIT of the "Karma" they've been going through for years now. It won't break my heart if we beat them every year for the next 100 years.

But "Once upon a time" it was indeed a fine and glorious rivalry!!!!

 

TiderMan

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We can all blame Fulmer if we want to but the majority of the issues were Alabama's own self inflicted problems and mis-management of the program from the time Coach Bryant retired till the hiring of Coach Saban. We did manage to win at a very high level when Coach Stallings was here but still were a lot of problems under the surface during his time.
 

NoNC4Tubs

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We can all blame Fulmer if we want to but the majority of the issues were Alabama's own self inflicted problems and mis-management of the program from the time Coach Bryant retired till the hiring of Coach Saban. We did manage to win at a very high level when Coach Stallings was here but still were a lot of problems under the surface during his time.
True, but Kramer and Phatimus should never have done what they did...
 

Bamabuzzard

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We can all blame Fulmer if we want to but the majority of the issues were Alabama's own self inflicted problems and mis-management of the program from the time Coach Bryant retired till the hiring of Coach Saban. We did manage to win at a very high level when Coach Stallings was here but still were a lot of problems under the surface during his time.
Everyone has to own their part of the wrong doing. But if Fat Feeel was truly interested in turning in folks for the sake of the integrity of the sport he would have "turnt in" himself. Because if my memory serves me correctly time has uncovered that his closet was full of little dirties around the same time and continued long after Alabama's little dirties got revealed.
 
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