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Home Schoolers vs County School Board

Tidewater

Tidewater

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Okay, I need some layman's advice. I have a question for the board. A local county school board is allowing home schooling, but requiring the parents to bring in a birth certificate and proof of residency in to the school board. The Commonwealth statute does not require the birth certificate, but it does allow counties to establish needful regulations to establish residency and the existence of the child/children.
A home schooling family is disputing the birth certificate requirement. The county school board is standing by their requirement that the parents show the birth certificate. The parents have secured the services of attorneys for the Home School Defense League (or some such). A trial will cost the county tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands in legal fees. The county cannot (or will not) provide any compelling reason why they need to see the birth certificate. They just say, in effect, "Because we said so."

So, the question: should the county follow the path of least resistance and waive the birth certificate requirement for this family? This is not in my county, but if I was a tax-payer, I would say to the school board, either (a) explain the compelling reason why you need a birth certificate or (b) waive the requirement or (c) drop the BC requirement.

Thoughts?
 
NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Tidewater said:
Okay, I need some layman's advice. I have a question for the board. A local county school board is allowing home schooling, but requiring the parents to bring in a birth certificate and proof of residency in to the school board. The Commonwealth statute does not require the birth certificate, but it does allow counties to establish needful regulations to establish residency and the existence of the child/children.
A home schooling family is disputing the birth certificate requirement. The county school board is standing by their requirement that the parents show the birth certificate. The parents have secured the services of attorneys for the Home School Defense League (or some such). A trial will cost the county tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands in legal fees. The county cannot (or will not) provide any compelling reason why they need to see the birth certificate. They just say, in effect, "Because we said so."

So, the question: should the county follow the path of least resistance and waive the birth certificate requirement for this family? This is not in my county, but if I was a tax-payer, I would say to the school board, either (a) explain the compelling reason why you need a birth certificate or (b) waive the requirement or (c) drop the BC requirement.

Thoughts?
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I agree with you. If the law allows "needful" regulation, then what is the need here? If there is no need then the regulation is outside the scope of the law. If there is need it shouldn't be difficult to establish the need. "Because we say so" isn't good enough.

They can't just waive it for this family and not waive it for everyone though. Is there any money from the county involved - as in, school choice vouchers?
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

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NationalTitles17 said:
I agree with you. If the law allows "needful" regulation, then what is the need here? If there is no need then the regulation is outside the scope of the law. If there is need it shouldn't be difficult to establish the need. "Because we say so" isn't good enough.

They can't just waive it for this family and not waive it for everyone though. Is there any money from the county involved - as in, school choice vouchers?
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Yes, the county gets money from the Commonwealth based on the number of school-aged students living in the county (whether they attend county schools or not). The home schoolers are "free riders" in the sense that they cost the county school system nothing to teach, but the county gets money for their schooling.
Of course, the home schooling family is not riding free now. The county is about to incur a big expense to go to trial.
Honestly, this sounds like a schwanz-measuring contest with the county taxpayers footing the bill.

Maybe I'm missing something, though. Is there a compelling interest in the school board seeing home-schoolers' birth certificates?
 
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NationalTitles18

NationalTitles18

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Tidewater said:
Yes, the county gets money from the Commonwealth based on the number of school-aged students living in the county (whether they attend county schools or not). The home schoolers are "free riders" in the sense that they cost the county school system nothing to teach, but the county gets money for their schooling.
Of course, the home schooling family is not riding free now. The county is about to incur a big expense to go to trial.
Honestly, this sounds like a schwanz-measuring contest with the county taxpayers footing the bill.
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Seems like the system has an interest in meeting whatever requirements exist for qualifying for the money then, but what are those requirements? That's where the rubber meets the road. If a BC is not required for the money or some other purpose I'd have a hard time justifying the requirement.

Some "public servants" have an insatiable desire to show everyone how important and powerful they are and hate being challenged. HSDL membership includes legal services and this organization has a good deal of experience litigating similar types of cases. The county is up against a formidable foe and if their case has holes they will be exposed.
 
Tidewater

Tidewater

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Honestly, this is what popped into my mind when thinking about the home-schooling family:

Maybe they are just challenging just to be challenging.

Then again, the county has not publicly articulated a compelling reason why they need to see the birth certificate, so my libertarian tendencies tell me they should take pity on the county taxpayers and just drop the BC requirement. That money surely could be spent better inside school building than on lawyers' fees going to a trial they will probably lose defending a policy they probably should not defend.
 
D

day-day

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Seems like the Commonwealth would have requirements that ensure verification that the children exist, reside in the county and provides their ages.

ETA: Didn't refresh in time to see NT17's recent post or I would have just liked it and skipped posting...
 
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seebell

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https://heav.org/blog/2018/06/13/birth-dates-noi/

Home Educators Association of Virginia website above includes the pertinent Virginia statute. Their position is that age must be reported but a birth certificate is not required.

AS TW says maybe the local school board should just require a statement of age. Or ask for an expedited opinion from the state attorney general.

 
NationalTitles18

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https://hslda.org/content/hs/state/...hool-Until-You-Submit-a-Birth-Certificate.asp

In Virginia Code §22.1-254.1 (the home instruction statute), the Virginia General Assembly has said, in effect, that school districts must accept statements on the notice of intent as to residence and parentage at face value—that school districts must presume parents are honorable people.The Franklin policy turns this premise on its heads. It presumes, in effect, that homeschool parents are incipient liars.
Fortunately, school boards have no authority to add their own idiosyncratic demands to state law. But unfortunately, the Franklin County School Board recently put those unlawful demands into their formal homeschool policy (Policy LBD). It could take a while for them to correct their error. This may be a long fight.
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https://hslda.org/content/hs/state/...rd-threatens-family-with-DIY-requirement.aspx

When a school representative demanded those documents from the Sosebee family, the Sosebees asked Home School Legal Defense Association for help.I told the school representative that Virginia law does not empower school boards to insist that families submit those documents. The school board refused to budge. In fact, they pushed even further and threatened the family with enforcement action if they did not submit to the unlawful demands.
Members of HSLDA, the Sosebees authorized us to file a lawsuit on their behalf. HSLDA attorney Peter Kamakawiwoole filed a petition asking the court to declare that Franklin’s policy is unlawful.
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Seems to me that if the interpretation of the law is correct here it is the Franklin County authorities that are "challenging just to be challenging".

Full disclosure: I am a member of HSLDA (I'm so into it that I forgot the correct acronym) because I have homeschooled all my children at one point or another. I'm not a religious fanatic. At times it was just better to homeschool my kids for varying reasons. Two things prompted me to join: 1. moving to CA and 2. A previous experience in IL that did not involve homeschooling at all, but rather an episode with CPS after I reported a school principal for physical abuse. In short, I wished I had a lawyer's advice a couple of times considering I witnessed and reported the abuse but was being treated like a criminal myself.

I also am not a fan of school boards or their schools WRT how children with special needs are treated overall, so I have an adversarial attitude at the onset.

That said, the law is the law and the board needs to follow it every bit as much as the parents.
 
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Tidewater

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NationalTitles17 said:
https://hslda.org/content/hs/state/...hool-Until-You-Submit-a-Birth-Certificate.asp

https://hslda.org/content/hs/state/...rd-threatens-family-with-DIY-requirement.aspx


Seems to me that if the interpretation of the law is correct here it is the Franklin County authorities that are "challenging just to be challenging".

Full disclosure: I am a member of HSLDA (I'm so into it that I forgot the correct acronym) because I have homeschooled all my children at one point or another. I'm not a religious fanatic. At times it was just better to homeschool my kids for varying reasons. Two things prompted me to join: 1. moving to CA and 2. A previous experience in IL that did not involve homeschooling at all, but rather an episode with CPS after I reported a school principal for physical abuse. In short, I wished I had a lawyer's advice a couple of times considering I witnessed and reported the abuse but was being treated like a criminal myself.

I also am not a fan of school boards or their schools WRT how children with special needs are treated overall, so I have an adversarial attitude at the onset.

That said, the law is the law and the board needs to follow it every bit as much as the parents.
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I think you're right. I just wish that the school board would take pity on the taxpayers and withdraw the requirement. The money could be better spent on just about anything than lawyer fees in a losing case.
 
CrimsonNagus

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I’m gonna be that guy...


What’s the big deal with just showing the birth certificate and being done with the whole mess? I know, it’s the big bad government just bullying us. I honestly wouldn’t have even known the law didn’t require the bc, which is what the are probably counting on.
 
jthomas666

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Tidewater said:
Yes, the county gets money from the Commonwealth based on the number of school-aged students living in the county (whether they attend county schools or not). The home schoolers are "free riders" in the sense that they cost the county school system nothing to teach, but the county gets money for their schooling.
Of course, the home schooling family is not riding free now. The county is about to incur a big expense to go to trial.
Honestly, this sounds like a schwanz-measuring contest with the county taxpayers footing the bill.
Maybe I'm missing something, though. Is there a compelling interest in the school board seeing home-schoolers' birth certificates?
Click to expand...
What is needed to establish residency? For a family, it's usually something like a utility bill. But the child doesn't appear on the utility bill. You might argue that proof of legal guardianship is needed; in which case a birth certificate might be warranted.

Maybe, maybe not. Neither side looks particularly good here, imo.
 
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