FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

92tide

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As am I. I hope every single post I make does not have to state that, for you to understand that I am. If so, let me know. I can make it happen....especially if it helps diffuse any conflict.....:wink:
but you haven't stated that or anything really close to that in a single post in this thread. in fact, your first post on the matter was implying the victim won a stupid prize.
 

AlexanderFan

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i am actually interested in not having folks who cannot control themselves carrying firearms in public.
But you're ok with the guy's first response to the confrontation was to shove a grown man hard enough to send him flying?

There's not a single correct decision made in this entire scenario, from parking in the spot illegally, to yelling at the woman, to shoving the man, to shooting the man. There is absolutely no defense for any of those actions, and applying different thought processes provides evidence that each action is the primary reason the man is dead. I know the chain convenience stores I visit in Atlanta (QTs, Racetracs, etc.) have a security guard outside, maybe to prevent incidents like this.

Bazza, I think the "Hill of beans" comment was in regards to the man's reaction to the infraction. You go tell the store manager or an LEO, you don't go psycho in the parking lot attempting to shame them.
 

92tide

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But you're ok with the guy's first response to the confrontation was to shove a grown man hard enough to send him flying?

There's not a single correct decision made in this entire scenario, from parking in the spot illegally, to yelling at the woman, to shoving the man, to shooting the man. There is absolutely no defense for any of those actions, and applying different thought processes provides evidence that each action is the primary reason the man is dead. I know the chain convenience stores I visit in Atlanta (QTs, Racetracs, etc.) have a security guard outside, maybe to prevent incidents like this.

Bazza, I think the "Hill of beans" comment was in regards to the man's reaction to the infraction. You go tell the store manager or an LEO, you don't go psycho in the parking lot attempting to shame them.
oh please.
 

jthomas666

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The gun was followed by the escalation which was the push. Before that there was some yelling about where someone parked which I wouldn't describe as an escalated situation..
Have to disagree with you. If you walk up and start yelling at someone, you are escalating the situation.

Also, you observed that few incident result in a fatal shooting--hence my comment that the only reason there was a fatal shooting is that a gun was present.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Couldn't the same be said for the man who carried out the assault? If he was that concerned about the yelling couldn't he have called police who is an entity that could have actually done something about the situation? It's not his business to be the police either wouldn't you say?
Apples to oranges comparison. The shooter willingly created the emotionally charged situation and whereas the husband walked into it. The husband walks into a situation where a stranger is two foot from his wife and kid yelling and screaming. It is very reasonable to think he had no clue what the guy would do next if he didn't immediately step in. The shooter had full control over the situation before making his decision and did not have the tense environment to operate within as did the husband.
 

CrimsonForce

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Have to disagree with you. If you walk up and start yelling at someone, you are escalating the situation.

Also, you observed that few incident result in a fatal shooting--hence my comment that the only reason there was a fatal shooting is that a gun was present.
But this is the question. Does yelling = physical assault. Not sure how the answer could be anything but no..
 

CrimsonForce

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Apples to oranges comparison. The shooter willingly created the emotionally charged situation and whereas the husband walked into it. The husband walks into a situation where a stranger is two foot from his wife and kid yelling and screaming. It is very reasonable to think he had no clue what the guy would do next if he didn't immediately step in. The shooter had full control over the situation before making his decision and did not have the tense environment to operate within as did the husband.
I guess I just have a different opinion on what's considered an escalated or "emotionally charged situation" since I don't consider someone yelling to be that. I don't think it's right to counter a verbal attack with a physical attack.

Also, the guy coming out of the store could've stepped in without pushing the other guy. His mere presence would've probably been enough for the other guy to back down some. In my mind I would never put my hands on somebody who was merely yelling at me or my family..
 
I digress here, but I don't think they were married.
Where you're losing me is it's coming across (whether it's your intentions or not) that you're attempting to distribute a portion of the blame on the woman as to why her husband got shot. When IMO she has absolutely nothing to do with why her husband got shot. The reason her husband got shot was because a guy decided to create an emotionally hostile situation about something that amounts to a hill of beans on the scale of offenses in society.

If the guy would have been civilly talking to her in a calm voice about illegally parking. My guess is he wouldn't of gotten shoved. The husband would have probably approached the guy and asked "What's going on here?", minus the shove. But when he walks out of the store and the guy is screaming and yelling at his wife (with his kid in the car) from two foot away? Nothing in this is the woman's fault. Nothing.
 

Bamabuzzard

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But this is the question. Does yelling = physical assault. Not sure how the answer could be anything but no..

Does being shoved=shooting a person as he's backing up and not pursuing further physical confrontation? That was not what the SYG law was intended to allow when passed.

Again, you're completely dismissing or trying to greatly minimize the fact that this man's wife and kids were being yelled at from two foot away by a total stranger, and treating it like it's some old grandma sitting on the front porch screaming at the neighborhood kids to get off her lawn. Unreal.
 

CrimsonForce

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Does being shoved=shooting a person as he's backing up and not pursuing further physical confrontation? That was not what the SYG law was intended to allow when passed.

Again, you're completely dismissing or trying to greatly minimize the fact that this man's wife and kids were being yelled at from two foot away by a total stranger, and treating it like it's some old grandma sitting on the front porch screaming at the neighborhood kids to get off her lawn. Unreal.
Actually, after the shove the next steps were toward the man on the ground. So even after the shove he was still showing aggression towards the guy on the ground. The gun shot and the step back happened almost at the same time. He was taking 1 step back at best and that can be hard to discern for the guy on the ground who had just been assaulted.

I haven't been in this exact situation but I've been yelled at (along with my wife) while walking our dog and got into a confrontation with another dog owner. I know what it's like when someone is very rude, vocal and right in your face but I never thought about putting my hands on the other party. We walked away and called the police which didn't turn out well for the other guy since he kept saying he was a sheriff and when it turned out he wasn't the police weren't very happy with him. So yea, I'm not completely dismissing or minimizing the yelling aspect but it still doesn't rise to the level of warranting physical assault in my opinion..
 
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Actually, after the shove the next steps were toward the man on the ground. So even after the shove he was still showing aggression towards the guy on the ground. The gun shot and the step back happened almost at the same time. He was taking 1 step back at best and that can be hard to discern for the guy on the ground who had just been assaulted.

I've been yelled at (along with my wife) face to face while walking our dog and got into a confrontation with another dog owner. I know what it's like when someone is very rude, vocal and right in your face but I never thought about putting my hands on the other party. We walked away and called the police which didn't turn out well for the other guy since he kept saying he was a sheriff and when it turned out he wasn't the police weren't very happy with him. So yea, I'm not completely dismissing or minimizing the yelling aspect but it still doesn't rise to the level of warranting physical assault in my opinion..
You know the first time I looked at the video I didn't see that. I have seen it since. He pulled up his shorts and everything. That's what men who sag do when they are getting into an altercation.
 

day-day

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Absolutely. But that doesn't excuse the guy who was yelling for doing it first. I don't think anyone here seriously thinks the right move was to push that guy.
Then you haven't read all of the posts...or I have misread some. I remember one that stated the pusher should have beat the guy even more.

Maybe it is the Mengele Effect.
 
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RollTide_HTTR

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Then you haven't read all of the posts...or I have misread some. I remember one that stated the pusher should have beat the guy even more.

Maybe it is the Mengele Effect.
For the most part I don't think anyone here seriously believes that.
 

CrimsonForce

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You know the first time I looked at the video I didn't see that. I have seen it since. He pulled up his shorts and everything. That's what men who sag do when they are getting into an altercation.
Yes, it's subtle but you can see the intent. If he had taken steps back after the push that'd be a different story. The fact he continued towards the guy on the ground in an aggressive manner means he more than likely wasn't finished with his assault..
 

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