FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again - Page 3
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  1. #27
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    are you being serious now?

    you are doing nothing but trying to absolve the shooter.
    Black people have a duty to retreat. White people can be as aggressive as they wish and act with impunity. Not sure if blue font is needed.

    ETA: Why aren't the black man's actions being regarded as "stand your ground" and the white man's as unlawful use of deadly force?

    It seems either race is an issue in this OR last man standing wins every argument.

    Either of those is a real problem.
    Last edited by NationalTitles17; July 23rd, 2018 at 09:04 AM.
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  2. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by NationalTitles17 View Post
    Black people have a duty to retreat. White people can be aggressive as they wish and act with impunity. Not sure if blue font is needed.
    black people have a duty to not be inherently threatening. and they should probably enter all interactions with white folks with appropriate deference to avoid these types of situations.
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  3. #29
    Super Moderator NationalTitles17's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    black people have a duty to not be inherently threatening. and they should probably enter all interactions with white folks with appropriate deference to avoid these types of situations.
    I know this should be in blue font, but that seems to be the sad reality.
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  4. #30
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bazza View Post
    I know that if I were a jury member:

    I would be severely biased by the knowledge of who got physical first.
    You would be directed as to what to consider by the judge. Florida is putting interpretations on the law that other states have not. The pusher actually backs away a step or so when he sees the gun. That would get him prosecuted in the states which are still applying the "reasonable man" test as opposed to the Florida subjective test. He would also probably be convicted here...
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  5. #31
    BamaNation First Team Its On A Slab's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I don't even have to watch the video because of this here. The guy instigated and escalated the situation. He shouldn't fall under the protection of "Stand your ground" law.
    The law of unintended consequences. I think the spirit of the law is to protect the innocent. In this case, the guy started the argument, then couldn't handle it when he was about to get a beat down. He could have left the situation, or tried some way to mitigate the situation. No. He pulled a gun and killed a guy.

    I used to have a Glock that I kept in a cloth gun bag under the seat of my truck. I always thought about how quickly a road rage situation could escalate into a shooting. And it does happen. This is a very similar situation.

  6. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Its On A Slab View Post
    The law of unintended consequences. I think the spirit of the law is to protect the innocent. In this case, the guy started the argument, then couldn't handle it when he was about to get a beat down. He could have left the situation, or tried some way to mitigate the situation. No. He pulled a gun and killed a guy.

    I used to have a Glock that I kept in a cloth gun bag under the seat of my truck. I always thought about how quickly a road rage situation could escalate into a shooting. And it does happen. This is a very similar situation.
    i don't think that he was even about to get a beat down (but i think it would have been somewhat justified had it happened). he could have easily stayed down and/or slunk back to his truck, but that wouldn't satisfy his ego.
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  7. #33
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    black people have a duty to not be inherently threatening. and they should probably enter all interactions with white folks with appropriate deference to avoid these types of situations.
    I was just attempting to put myself in the place of the parent of a young black man. What would we tell our child to do in such a moment? If he flees he may be shot for fleeing the scene. If he cowers in place and keeps his mouth shut he may be fortunate to survive the situation and only experience being roughed up and humiliated. If he reacts as a normal human would he may be executed on the spot.

    When I see people begin to attempt, at a minimum, to rationalize or justify the completely unnecessary and unjustified murder of a man, I am repelled. I would ask them to attempt for one moment to live in the shoes of the victims family!

  8. #34
    BamaNation Hall of Fame cbi1972's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    All parties most likely bear some moral responsibility, but I personally draw the line at physical violence, or the imminent threat of physical violence.
    Following someone, talking to them, asking them questions, even yelling at them etc. don't meet my criteria for justifying violent response.
    The way I see it, the one to initiate violence loses.

    That said, if you intend to walk around armed, you have more than the usual duty of care to not provoke hostilities.

    Without witnessing the event, it is hard to say who is actually the "aggressor" in this situation.
    Last edited by cbi1972; July 23rd, 2018 at 09:23 AM.
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  9. #35
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Its On A Slab View Post
    The law of unintended consequences. I think the spirit of the law is to protect the innocent. In this case, the guy started the argument, then couldn't handle it when he was about to get a beat down. He could have left the situation, or tried some way to mitigate the situation. No. He pulled a gun and killed a guy.

    I used to have a Glock that I kept in a cloth gun bag under the seat of my truck. I always thought about how quickly a road rage situation could escalate into a shooting. And it does happen. This is a very similar situation.
    I don't think "starting an argument" is an accurate description of what this man did. Walking up to a total stranger and screaming/yelling at them is an act of aggression that creates a very tense situation and generates emotions of fear which leads to tendencies of self defense in those being yelled at. This guy did much more than start an argument. He started a physical confrontation without throwing the first punch. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
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  10. #36
    BamaNation All-American bobstod's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    I don't think "starting an argument" is an accurate description of what this man did. Walking up to a total stranger and screaming/yelling at them is an act of aggression that creates a very tense situation and generates emotions of fear which leads to tendencies of self defense in those being yelled at. This guy did much more than start an argument. He started a physical confrontation without throwing the first punch. He should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
    Totally agree. There is a element in law called "last clear chance'. The shooter pulls the weapon, points it at the victim, who backs up a little, or if you will, stands still. The shooter has a choice. His gun has put an end to any threat. He can get up and walk away, while still protecting himself from any perceived violence; or he can choose to shoot the man in the heart. Guilty of murder.
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  11. #37
    FB Moderator Bamabuzzard's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    this is one of the reasons i favor much stricter laws for folks who want to carry weapons around in public.
    Yep. You and I are definitely in agreement on this one. I know it's (I hate this phrase but can't find another one better) a "slippery slope" to start determining who can carry and who cannot that goes beyond non criminal things. But there are some people who have no business carrying a gun whose never even had a traffic violation. Carrying, heck, just owning a gun, comes with GREAT responsibility.
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  12. #38
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    That was murder, pure and simple.

    If the guy doing the pushing hadn't backed up about 3-5 feet once he reached for the gun and instead advanced I might be a bit more agreeable with it being a stand your ground situation. But a person backs up, has his arms at his side, and then you hesitate for a few seconds before pulling the trigger? Murder.

  13. #39
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    I'm thinking the DA will push to prosecute. Maybe not murder but at least manslaughter.

    I also see a wrongful death civil suit coming but the shooter may not have anything to go after.
    Last edited by day-day; July 23rd, 2018 at 02:42 PM.

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