FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again - Page 9
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  1. #105
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Oh yes it does, very much so. All other states also have the "reasonable" test. I think most here would agree the shooter had no reason to think he was in immediate danger of death or immediate great physical harm, with an opponent who was backing up when shot. Florida has basically decided to ignore the "reasonable" aspect and focus on how the shooter, in this case, subjectively felt. That's the reason I said he would be prosecuted here but probably not in Florida...
    I think I see now. I was thinking the wording on immediate danger of death or great physical harm was referencing another law and not the Stand Your Ground.

    I thought this applied pretty much everywhere if someone does not have the opportunity to flee. The shooter in this case didn't have the opportunity to flee but also was no longer in danger once he pulled his pistol. I think I'm putting my own definition in place based on the name Stand Your Ground...
    Last edited by day-day; July 23rd, 2018 at 11:03 PM.

  2. #106
    Senior Administrator TIDE-HSV's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by day-day View Post
    I think I see now. I was thinking the wording on immediate danger of death or great physical harm was referencing another law and not the Stand Your Ground.

    I thought this applied pretty much everywhere if someone does not have the opportunity to flee. The shooter in this case didn't have the opportunity to flee but also was no longer in danger once he pulled his pistol. I think I'm putting my own definition in place based on the name Stand Your Ground...
    Well, under common law, you were under an affirmative duty to retreat rather than to engage, until you could retreat no further. It's more complex than that, but that will do for understanding the principles. If you were in your home, you were deemed to have retreated as far as you could and were free to defend yourself. The original idea of the SYG laws was to place one in the same position out in public as if he/she were in the home - no duty to retreat. So far, so good. However, in FL, the courts seem to have subtracted the "reasonably" from the wording of the statute. I would say that prosecutors don't operate in a vacuum and the police chief is not the last word in whether this shooter gets charged...
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  3. #107
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by day-day View Post
    I thought this applied pretty much everywhere if someone does not have the opportunity to flee. The shooter in this case didn't have the opportunity to flee but also was no longer in danger once he pulled his pistol.
    Once he had pulled the gun and the other guy had backed off, he most certainly DID have the opportunity to flee.
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  4. #108
    BamaNation Hall of Fame AlexanderFan's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    You can't put your hands on people. You just can't.




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  5. #109
    BamaNation Hall of Fame 92tide's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderFan View Post
    You can't put your hands on people. You just can't.




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    you can't shoot people that don't pose an imminent threat to you. you just can't.
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  6. #110
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by jthomas666 View Post
    Once he had pulled the gun and the other guy had backed off, he most certainly DID have the opportunity to flee.
    Yeah, kinda, but my point was he was assaulted before he realized that he was being threatened.
    Last edited by day-day; July 24th, 2018 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #111
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    i just have to wonder what the reactions to this story would be if it was a black guy yelling at a white woman about being in the handicapped place and her white husband/father was shot after defending his girlfriend/wife
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  8. #112
    BamaNation All-SEC major tidefan's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    you can't shoot people that don't pose an imminent threat to you. you just can't.
    Unless of course you're in the Dumbshine State.

  9. #113
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i just have to wonder what the reactions to this story would be if it was a black guy yelling at a white woman about being in the handicapped place and her white husband/father was shot after defending his girlfriend/wife
    I think most people would be just as upset.

  10. #114
    BamaNation Hall of Fame MattinBama's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    i just have to wonder what the reactions to this story would be if it was a black guy yelling at a white woman about being in the handicapped place and her white husband/father was shot after defending his girlfriend/wife
    One would no doubt be "You can't yell at a man's wife outside their car. You just can't."

    My stance has softened slightly. When I initially watched the video it felt like 3-5 seconds before the man pulled the trigger after aiming the gun. When going frame by frame I realized it was around 2 seconds from the time the gun left the holster until the victim reacted to being hit. That isn't a ton of time to make a decision and completely register that the other man is backing away although he still should have felt the immediate threat was gone and taken the side of caution.

    I still think he should be charged, although I would go with manslaughter. Although if it can be proved that he's been itching for a confrontation (as some reports would indicate) and a chance to whip out his pistol then I would say second-degree murder.

  11. #115
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by MattinBama View Post
    *One would no doubt be "You can't yell at a man's wife outside their car. You just can't."

    My stance has softened slightly. When I initially watched the video it felt like 3-5 seconds before the man pulled the trigger after aiming the gun. When going frame by frame I realized it was around 2 seconds from the time the gun left the holster until the victim reacted to being hit. That isn't a ton of time to make a decision and completely register that the other man is backing away although he still should have felt the immediate threat was gone and taken the side of caution.

    I still think he should be charged, although I would go with manslaughter. **Although if it can be proved that he's been itching for a confrontation (as some reports would indicate) and a chance to whip out his pistol then I would say second-degree murder.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
    There was no sound in the video but you could tell by the other patrons' reaction the guy was yelling. Two of the patrons who pulled up toward the security camera immediately turned their heads that direction when exiting their car. That tells me the guy was yelling. You start yelling at someone's wife and I'm sorry. You're basically holding up a sign that reads "PUNCH MY LIGHTS OUT!!!". One reaction would have never occurred if it weren't for another person's actions. Did the deceased do the "right thing"? Probably not, but the rules drastically change when you start screaming at another man's wife. Much like when you start messing with someone's child. Protective instincts start to kick in. There's no way the distribution of responsibility is equal in this situation. Not even close.

    **Wasn't it indicated the store had a history of problems with this guy? So maybe if someone kept digging a bit this M.O. could be established.
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  12. #116
    BamaNation Hall of Fame selmaborntidefan's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by 92tide View Post
    black people have a duty to not be inherently threatening. and they should probably enter all interactions with white folks with appropriate deference to avoid these types of situations.
    Well,sure, you know, next thing they'll expecting to be able to vote or something...
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  13. #117
    BamaNation Hall of Fame jthomas666's Avatar
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    Re: FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

    Quote Originally Posted by day-day View Post
    Yeah, kinda, but not before he was assaulted.
    irrelevant
    This is the darkest timeline.

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