FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
i hope my agenda doesn't make you uncomfortable.

You realize black on black crime far exceeds white on black crime, right? So should black people also show deference to black people in all situations? Or does that not fit the agenda?

92tide said:
black people should probably enter all interactions with white folks with appropriate deference to avoid these types of situations.

Bazza · Jul 25, 2018

Hey you guys...get a room! :biggrin2:

jthomas666 · Jul 25, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
Because I knew you two would ask :biggrin:

An interesting assumption, particularly given that

1. I made no mention of race in my OP, and

2. 92 didn't even mention the issue until someone else (NationalTitles17) broached the subject (post 16)--and NT17 made it clear that he was talking about broader issues, not just this one incident.

92tide · Jul 25, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
You realize black on black crime far exceeds white on black crime, right? So should black people also show deference to black people in all situations? Or does that not fit the agenda?

actually, this fits right in my agenda. thanks.

92tide · Jul 25, 2018

jthomas666 said:
An interesting assumption, particularly given that

1. I made no mention of race in my OP, and

2. 92 didn't even mention the issue until someone else (NationalTitles17) broached the subject (post 16)--and NT17 made it clear that he was talking about broader issues, not just this one incident.

i heard a rumor that nt17 is an extreme leftist.

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
actually, this fits right in my agenda. thanks.

Perfect, just want equality for all

. Thanks

NationalTitles18 · Jul 25, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
I feel like the aggressor took a step back just about simultaneous with the shot being fired. It wasn't like he was backpedaling for several steps. The backward motion started at about the same time the gun went off. To me, I can see how the guy on the ground was in fear for his safety. He had just been violently pushed and the aggressor was still standing aggressively in front of him. Tragic situation that could have been avoided several ways but once you put your hands on somebody else it escalates the situation which was otherwise just an exchange of words. Race has nothing to do with my perspective on this. If the skin colors were reversed I'd feel the same way. I didn't even know the races of the 2 individuals from the video until I started reading the comments here by the same people who bring race into everything like this..

I was not aware that I bring race into everything. Thank you for that enlightenment. /blue font

the original aggressor was the shooter.

NationalTitles18 · Jul 25, 2018

Bazza if the guy never starts trouble by allegedly yelling at people he’s never in the situation where he fears supposedly for his life. Maybe the education starts with people like him on how to avoid shooting and killing fathers of little children.

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
I was not aware that I bring race into everything. Thank you for that enlightenment. /blue font

the original aggressor was the shooter.

Wasn't referring to you. I have no problem discussing race when it's applicable but IMO it had no bearing in this situation. I watched the video and had no idea of the race of either party because of the low quality video.

The aggressor was the man who carried out the physical assault. Before that assault it was just an exchange of words which happens all the time. I think we've all had situations where someone speaks to us or our family disrespectfully or in a rude manner but we don't go around assaulting everyone who does that. Call the police or just walk away. Same could be said for the shooter but I can understand why he was in fear after being physically assaulted..

crimsonaudio · Jul 25, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
if the guy never starts trouble by allegedly yelling at people he’s never in the situation where he fears supposedly for his life.

While true, at what point is it appropriate for someone to run up physically assault another because of what they're saying to a third party?

I've said this many times - I don't think physical assaults are the appropriate response to verbal assaults.

Keep in mind I might well respond just as the shooting victim did in a similar situation (though my wife wouldn't be self-absorbed enough to park in a handicapped parking spot in the first place) - but I also know that I would be the one escalating the situation at that point.

92tide · Jul 25, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
While true, at what point is it appropriate for someone to run up physically assault another because of what they're saying to a third party?

I've said this many times - I don't think physical assaults are the appropriate response to verbal assaults.

Keep in mind I might well respond just as the shooting victim did in a similar situation (though my wife wouldn't be self-absorbed enough to park in a handicapped parking spot in the first place) - but I also know that I would be the one escalating the situation at that point.

i don't care if my wife is doing something stupid, i'm not going to stand by and let someone treat her like that.

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
While true, at what point is it appropriate for someone to run up physically assault another because of what they're saying to a third party?

I've said this many times - I don't think physical assaults are the appropriate response to verbal assaults.

Keep in mind I might well respond just as the shooting victim did in a similar situation (though my wife wouldn't be self-absorbed enough to park in a handicapped parking spot in the first place) - but I also know that I would be the one escalating the situation at that point.

See this is where I line up. Verbal disagreements or an exchange of words about situations happen all day every day. It's not right to escalate from an exchange of words to assault. Once you assault somebody all bets are off. They could retaliate in any sort of way - some legal and maybe some not legal. But at worse if you assault somebody then you're asking for a physical altercation which may or may not go your way..

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
i don't care if my wife is doing something stupid, i'm not going to stand by and let someone treat her like that.

So your answer is to physically assault anyone who is outspoken to your wife even if your wife is in the wrong?

92tide · Jul 25, 2018

CrimsonForce said:
So your answer is to physically assault anyone who is outspoken to your wife even if your wife is in the wrong?

you are quite being quite special today. and i doubt i would physically assault someone, that's not who i am, but yes i support and stand up for my wife regardless.

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
and i doubt i would physically assault someone, that's not who i am, but yes i support and stand up for my wife regardless.

Well, when you say "I'm not going to stand by and let someone treat her like" even if she's "doing something stupid" that sounds like more than just having a conversation with the other party.

92tide said:
you are quite being quite special today.

Just adding a little diversity to NS :smile:

crimsonaudio · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
i don't care if my wife is doing something stupid, i'm not going to stand by and let someone treat her like that.

Nor am I - but that doesn't mean my reaction isn't an escalation or an invitation of the use of force.

If I were to react to a situation like this I know full well beforehand that I might end up dead, or at the very least, in jail. I make that choice and live (or die) with the consequences.

But we can't equate verbal assault with physical assault.

92tide · Jul 25, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
Nor am I - but that doesn't mean my reaction isn't an escalation or an invitation of the use of force.

If I were to react to a situation like this I know full well beforehand that I might end up dead, or at the very least, in jail. I make that choice and live (or die) with the consequences.

But we can't equate verbal assault with physical assault.

i've made it 49 years without physically assaulting someone, so i'm not too worried about it going too far. and i don't really find myself in situations like that very much if at all.

that being said, i just don't think it is that cut and dried.

CrimsonForce · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
i've made it 49 years without physically assaulting someone, so i'm not too worried about it going too far.

that being said, i just don't think it is that cut and dried.

If you put your hands on someone you're asking for a fistfight at the bare minimum. It is that cut and dried. Or, in certain states where people know their rights and are legally carrying, it could escalate past a fist fight..

crimsonaudio · Jul 25, 2018

92tide said:
i've made it 49 years without physically assaulting someone, so i'm not too worried about it going too far. and i don't really find myself in situations like that very much if at all.

Similar here. Just saying, if the boyfriend had walked up and tried to de-escalate this instead of taking a verbal situation and making it physical, we likely wouldn't have this thread. Lots of fault to go around here - all three adults in the video did something stupid and if any one of them had handled the situation in a more mature manner, this would have been another non-story.

that being said, i just don't think it is that cut and dried.

Keep in mind I've not said it's cut and dried - I'm simply saying that physically assaulting someone over their words is a leap - they're simply not equivalent. I'll need more data before I can determine what I believe to be the truth of the situation.

I mean, if there's any instances where verbal assault can rightfully lead to physical violence then we need know what, if anything, the boyfriend said to the man as / after he shoved him to the ground. If he threatened "I'm going to kill you" as he shoved him, then that might change things.

RollTide_HTTR · Jul 25, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
Bazza if the guy never starts trouble by allegedly yelling at people he’s never in the situation where he fears supposedly for his life. Maybe the education starts with people like him on how to avoid shooting and killing fathers of little children.

Bazza said:
There should be more education on how to avoid getting shot by someone claiming they are "standing their ground".

It happens so often......you would think people would be more careful about getting into confrontations.

Public Service Announcement: "Hello there...my name is Bazza...and I represent the ACLU. We want to remind everyone that in the state of Florida - they have this crazy law that gives persons the right to shoot you, should they feel their life is in danger. It could be a simple situation where you are breaking and entering and all of a sudden the property owner walks in on you. Or you get into a disagreement with someone - and all of a sudden violence ensues. We all know how easy it is to find yourself in situations like this. Please for the love of God....watch out for those people who might be armed (and dangerous). If you're going to get into it with someone - make sure they're not carrying!.

Run that spot every day during the evening news.....it could help!

Wait, I need to clarify how much of this is serious. I originally thought Bazza meant this mostly in jest but maybe I'm wrong?

FL's Stand Your Ground Law Strikes Again

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