Are you guys trying to make the point that the Browns are such a dumpster fire that ANY current or future HOF QB would have washed out of the league completely or are you just applying that to Brady??
If so.... why??
Jalen Ramsey's opinion on every QB in the NFL
- Thread starter Bamabuzzard
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If so.... why??
Just gotta say that Brady is 41 and just had his 3rd most accurate passing season at 66.3%.
He also just Led the League is passing yards at 4,577 yards (5th highest career) and 32 TD's (7th Highest of Career)
In the Playoffs he was 64% for 1,132 yards (2nd Highest) and 8 TD's (2nd Highest)
He might start slipping anytime soon but just last year at 40+ he is playing as good as anyone has ever played at the position.
It blows my mind that anyone thinks he success is purely by luck of the dice.
I am saying that Brady was an afterthought draftee who no one had given a second thought and who was not going to get another chance elsewhere unless he lit up the world where he was drafted. That is the way it works in the NFL. Very talented players wash out of the league every year while less talented players sign contracts because they are fortunate enough for 2 things to happen:
They land on a team with a need at their position
They get an opportunity to prove that they can meet that need before their rookie contract expires
With the Browns he would have been surrounded by poor players and coaches. He would have had horrible stats and his W/L percentage would have been garbage. As a result, he would not have been picked up by another team after the Browns gave up on him like they have given up on so many great players at other positions.
Well I do see where you are coming from now.... but I would just add that just because maybe he washes out there it doesn't mean he's gone for good.
He has the drive and tenacity that few do..... and if Kurt Warner can wash out at Green Bay, go play Arena Ball for 5 years, Catch on at St Louis and go on to a HOF career...
Then why would it not be possible to imagine Brady going to NFL tryout camps for any team that will give him a shot, or go play CFL or Arena League and then go to NFL tryout camps.
Eventually he's going to land somewhere where he completely out plays the other QB's on the roster and gets signed.
1) Brady wasn’t starting in 2000
2) there was no way they were going to push him over Tim Couch in 2001
3) the Browns were a dumpster fire in 2000, the Pats weren’t. Brady had an all time great defense in his first 4 SB trips, he has had better offenses in his last 5 than he had in his first 3. Point is from 04- present the strategy has been to surround Brady. The Browns have showed historically to be the KC Royals of the NFL in the willing and dealing game and not build a franchise
Matt Cassel looked good in the Pats offense and turned it into a big sign with Kansas City. Some of his other back-ups that have played when he was hurt or suspended for cheating have looked good as well and gotten contracts because of it. While Brady is great, he is only great because of where he plays and who he plays for. Cleveland is where talent goes to die, and Brady would have been just another failed QB there in a long list a failed QBs in Cleveland.
Simply not true. He has done it with below average RBs, avg at best WRs and TEs. Except for Moss for 2 seasons and Gronk, injured half the time, he has had nothing but decent, journeyman offensive weapons that he made look good. E.g., Welker did little before NE and little afterward, same with Branch, David Patton, et al. Their rec corp in the 2016 season SB was Edelman, Chris Hogan, M. Mitchell and Martellus Bennet; RBs White and Lewis. Last year it was Amendola, Gronk, Hogan (Edelman was out and Cooks got injured early), the RBs were White, Lewis and Burkhead. It was often worse in the early years.
They weren't even the best in the NFL at that time, much less all time great. In order their NFL rank was: 6, 17, 2, 4. They were good - that's all. But a very large part of Brady's greatness was that he almost always came through at crunch time and even played well in the losses. Last year 505 yds, 3 TDs, 0 ints. In contrast, P. Manning didn't even play well in his 2 wins.81usa92 said:
Oh, I agree that Brady is still great, but IMO, his accuracy, despite stats is not as consistent as before, especially the long ball. One reason his accuracy stats are better now is that he is throwing a much different pass. The game overall and especially the passing game is much different now than in 2001 and following. They're not close but he has adapted.
"It blows my mind that anyone thinks he success is purely by luck of the dice." I agree completely.
I bet you within the next 10-20 years that defense that won 38 will have 6 HOF on that defense. Maybe not great compared to The 1st and 2nd Steel Curtains, the 85 bears, LOB, or the 00 Ravens but that defense had more to do with winning those first 3 SB than Brady. Brady’s first SB was by far his worst, 2nd was okay, and 3rd 4th and 5th were just average. Yes he was clutch when he needed to be on his first 2 but was very average in them. His best SBs have been his last 3. I think Brady’s greatness is his clutchness and his work ethic, but he has been at his best later in his career. I think the Belichick defense in the early 2000’s was the difference between the Steelers having 3 more SBs and Brady having more than 3.
FWIW Peyton Manning is probably one of the biggest chokers of all time. He had three of the worst qbrs in a SB. Luckily for him Cam is a scaredy-cat and Rex Grossman was worse than him.
Brady got his first start in 2001 after Bledsoe got hurt. Keep in mind he was the 7th QB taken in the draft and pick 199. Bledsoe was a darn good QB, and thought of as an elite QB. Meaning no one, and I mean no one ever thought Brady was going to see the field. So he was in the same boat AJ was in at Cincinnati. But it’s very lucky that he landed in an organization that knew the value each player brought. So if he ever did the seemingly impossible at the time he was going to get all the tools and resources to succeed.
But what if any of those doofuses picked Brady instead of their busts.
1) NYJ 18 (Pennington)it is entirely possible a coach like Parcells and Herm Edwards could find a way to use him, but let’s not kid ourselves Herm and Brady aren’t winning more than 2 SBs at the most. Good situation
2) SF 65 (Carmazzi)- Brady returns home to his childhood team. Mooch had dug a line in the sand and was going to ride Garcia until they would’ve fired him. Mooch also didn’t like Brady so it would probably be until Erickson got there before he got a shot. Bad situation
3) Ravens 75 (Redman)- this is probably a good location because the Ravens tried to make Redman into something. I think if Brady could survive until Harbaugh got there he could be close to what he is now. The Ravens would surely have more sbs good situation
4) Steelers 163 (Tee Martin)- by far the best situation besides the Pats. Steelers were ready to move on from Slash, they had a great defense in the making, and they had great infrastructure. Brady would probably have the same amount of success if the Steelers would pony up the cash to keep him
5) Saints 168 (Bulger) the saints were still reeling from the most ludicrous draft trade in history so basically they had a lot of missing pieces. Bad situations
6) Browns 183 (Wynn) already disscussed horrible situation
So that’s 3 horrible places, 2 great places, and two unknown locations Brady could’ve landed with none of them seriously looking at him to be a starter. It was extremely lucky that he landed at the team he did, and got the break he needed with Bledsoe going down. No one is questioning his greatness but we are saying he would probably be like AJ and fighting for a stewardship position had he landed anywhere but the Steelers or the Pats in that draft.
Brady success in his career was not lucky, Brady getting on the field to play and then put into position to be successful was lucky.
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As for Ramsay, clown comment from a clown.
I agreed that he was fortunate in 2 ways: one that the starter was injured, though that happened all the time in the NFL at that time; and 2 that he was in an organization like NE that was intelligence driven. But after he played, Belichick realized that he had something special in Brady and let a physically superior QB like Bledsoe leave. Not that he was not intelligent also, but Brady was the better QB and CBB knew it.
I remember well when Bama was preparing to play Mich in the Orange Bowl and most were concerned that Henson would recover to play. I was far more concerned about Brady even though he was a statue back there because he was incredibly accurate. And he killed Bama with that precision. A D that had held Spurrier's O to ~ 114 yds total offense and 7 points in the SECC game - the lowest yds in CSS's career, at least til that point. Brady: 34-46 369 yds, 4 TDs, 0 ints. Lloyd Carr and Mich were very unwise to value Henson's superior athletic ability over Brady's intelligence and accuracy. In fact, even in that game Mich kept trying to run the ball against a stone wall. It wasn't until they reluctantly allowed him to throw that then Brady ate Bama's D up. Programs and franchises are still to this day seduced by athletic ability. Accuracy and intelligence are far more important - there's no comparison. Brady has always had both and more.
Brady is a great QB and would have thrived in other systems as well. Not saying every organization, but he was not dependent on NE.
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I don't think it played out like that, but who knows? I mean, Bledsoe played very well for Belichick before his injury, and Brady played no better. IMO, the reason that Brady kept his job is that the Pats won the Super Bowl that same season. Brady was named the SB MVP, but that was a joke. The defense won that game, and everyone who watched it knows it.
The Pats were handed a 17-3 lead because the defense forced 3 early turnovers - one was a pick-six. All 17 points in that lead came from the turnovers as they were handed the ball right at FG range the other 2 times. They have to hold on to win 20-17. They only had 267 total yards of offense in that game. They won on a 48 yard FG by one of the best FG kickers in the history of the game.
Brady's stats - 16 of 27 for 145 yards and one TD pass. The only thing he did was not turn the ball over. But they won, Brady was handed the SB MVP award and Bledsoe was done. Luck - right place, right time. Nothing special about his play or presence. No one expected Brady to be special after that game. No one.
ETA - I like Brady, and I really like Belichick. I hope they win another championship or two before they walk away from the game. But, to take this discussion back to where it started, AJ could have the same ability that Brady had at this point in his career and we would never know it. He had a chance to win a playoff game in Cincy. Instead of his defense helping him win the game, his entire team made sure that the Bungles lost that game. If AJ had stepped in for Peyton in the playoffs that season, he would be a starter somewhere right now.
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Henson wasn’t starting after Nick Saban made Lyodd Carr look like the stupidest coach in football that year. The Henson-Brady debate was well over by the time Bama played them in the Orange Bowl.
I’m not sure I could agree that BB had as much faith in TB until he got them to the AFCCG. If the Brady tuck rule doesn’t happen then we are probably still seeing Brady as a great qb, but just not as a Patriot. I just don’t think anyone was advocating for Brady until the AFCCG.
I think Brady is a better QB than AJ, but they are very similar in style, and situation. I think the only way AJ ever fully beat out Dalton was to reach the divisional round, and maybe even AFCCG.
Early in his career, Brady was not a great QB. He worked on his craft and became one. AJ has the same opportunity if he lands in the right place. Will he ever be as good as Brady has become? Highly doubtful. But Brady was not nearly the QB in 2001 that he has become. That was my only point there.
Yeah I don’t Tom Brady became Tom Brady until 04. But by then Josh McDaniels had more impact on Brady’s mechanics. They also started to switch to building around him instead of reloading the defense. I think Charlie Weis gets way too much credit for Brady, but I think McDaniels is the real genius.
AJ really needs a similar environment and similar favorable bounce in order to succeed long time for a program.
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I had forgotten how serious Bledsoe’s injury actually was. He nearly died, no exaggeration. No one knew Brady was going to be great, no one. If the refs had not gifted the Pats with the most ridiculous call in the history of the NFL, maybe the Pats trade him away. I hate Oakland, but they got hosed by a dumb call. It was a fumble. I believe Brady got dinged up in one of the playoff games and Bledsoe actually finished the game and led them to victory. If memory serves there was even a question at the time as to whether or not Bledsoe should start the rest of the games. My whole point is Brady got lucky and fell into a great situation and the browns are terrible and no one can be great there ever.
Back to the original topic. Jalen Ramsey is a loud mouth second rate DB. I do agree with him somewhat about Ryan and others, but he needs to shut-up and play. Look for a lot of these QBs to try and go right at him after these comments.
Back to the original topic. Jalen Ramsey is a loud mouth second rate DB. I do agree with him somewhat about Ryan and others, but he needs to shut-up and play. Look for a lot of these QBs to try and go right at him after these comments.
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