Wanted to give my take on the stadium plan...

Isaiah 63:1

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This would be monumentally stupid. You pay for your seat, it is yours to do with as you wish. If Alabama does this you will end your Tide Pride program. It will die overnight.
Agreed. UA can maximize revenue, or control ticket use, but not both.

Using the airline industry as an avatar, one sure way to recognize the peak of the cycle is when companies start spending to reduce capacity. It’s not a law of economics that I’m aware of; it appears to be a law of hubris...


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NationalTitles18

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I'm glad Coleman will finally get some love. I would have thought they'd build a new arena, but $70mil is a lot of money. Something had to be done for the basketball program.

I also like the changes to the guts of BDS. I like the idea of a jumbo-tron and even a "playpen" of sorts, but I'm not sold on the aesthetics or practicality. Not sure that I like the press box move but it might turn out OK.
 

81usaf92

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I'm not for higher ticket prices, and I'm really not for smaller seats like Tennessee did. Jumbotron... MAYBE.
I'm personally not for the Tide Pride having all the season tickets to begin with because it makes it harder for an average fan to get face value to a game, and the majority of those tickets wind up on StubHub anyways. Sure I'm for some season tickets, maybe even a majority of it, but I do think there should be a significant allotment be given to the average joes. Because once the prices go up for season tickets, the prices are going to go up on scalper sites even more. To be honest, Alabama makes more money with folks actually coming to the games, and not as much in selling tickets. Sure Ill still be able to go because I know when to buy, and its usually just for myself, but judging by how many folks on here that believe they are expensive already I think its safe to assume there will be less folks going in the future.

What I'm guessing that happens is down the line they are going to do away with TP and going to an NFL corporate sponsorship kinda thing, and selling all remaining tickets through the university.
 

B1GTide

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I'm personally not for the Tide Pride having all the season tickets to begin with because it makes it harder for an average fan to get face value to a game, and the majority of those tickets wind up on StubHub anyways. Sure I'm for some season tickets, maybe even a majority of it, but I do think there should be a significant allotment be given to the average joes. Because once the prices go up for season tickets, the prices are going to go up on scalper sites even more. To be honest, Alabama makes more money with folks actually coming to the games, and not as much in selling tickets. Sure Ill still be able to go because I know when to buy, and its usually just for myself, but judging by how many folks on here that believe they are expensive already I think its safe to assume there will be less folks going in the future.

What I'm guessing that happens is down the line they are going to do away with TP and going to an NFL corporate sponsorship kinda thing, and selling all remaining tickets through the university.
TP represents the PSL model that has been so successful across the NFL. They don't want to kill that golden goose. They just have to figure out how to handle that model within the construct of college football, where too many home games are not competitive at all.

The NFL PSL model works because every game is a potential loss. Fans feed off of that competition. Fans will pay for tickets to "bad" games and those games all sell out. Corporate sponsors buy the skyboxes and leverage them - clients and prospects love that special treatment. Does all of that translate to the college schedule? in Tuscaloosa?

So how do you make the PSL model work at Alabama?
 

CoolBreeze

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Fascinating discussion here Jess. This is exactly what happened...

What I think happened here is the school made this decision without a lot of consideration for downside risk management. Maybe the school did it because Saban walked into Byrne's office and said, "Here's what I want, and I want it posthaste," and Byrne delivered without any kind of objections.
I have no skin in the game and simply cannot afford it. From an outsider's perspective (so to speak), I am glad to see the infrastructure being improved, staying ahead of the arms race and actualizing in brick and mortar what a Mecca the University has become. Supply and demand dictate that the price for a ticket will rise as the interest in the program does. So what better time to build top notch facilities all around while we are on top. Because your are correct...when Saban leaves it is over. We'll get good coaches but we will slide. It could be 10-15 years in ebbing before we find another generational coach again and in that time ticket prices will slide. But the Mecca will be built. I don't know, I just see it as a great thing for the University. Although I do sympathize with all of you season ticket holders (with a tinge of jealousy :D) I think the nature of the beast in being successful is that market forces push prices higher just as market forces as a program competing in athletics push us to build increasing more attractive facilities.
 

bamacpa

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I'm 53, so my days as a Tide Pride member may be dwindling anyway. But, I just don't see the value of the big Jumbotron. Those end zone seats aren't being fully used by students, but spending millions on a TV is for the younger folk, I guess. Making the concourses nicer is a good thing, in my view.
 

rgw

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The big concern I have is that we're getting spendy kinda late in the game. We should've been doing this right after the expansion and SEC Network money came into play. I've been worried about the television revenue future for a few years now and we may be running up some big debt when a downsizing comes in the mid-2020s. We better hope the corporate money they're playing for with all these luxury arrangements comes through or the post-Saban AD is gonna be in trouble.
 
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uaintn

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Coleman should go first. I'm no fan of the BDS plans from an aesthetic standpoint. Not sure who'd sit in those end zone wings. My company has 8 seats. There is zero appetite for paying more for them. If prices go up, my guess is they will surrender them all, giving TP the finger on the way out, especially after a home season as bad as this one. We have little customer interest in attending Arky State or LLU. Don't even think about the Citadel. Any attempt to limit private sales by season ticket holders might cause a riot. I hope they have carefully considered all the ramifications of what they have planned. I tend to doubt it.
 

edwd58

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I'm personally not for the Tide Pride having all the season tickets to begin with because it makes it harder for an average fan to get face value to a game, and the majority of those tickets wind up on StubHub anyways. Sure I'm for some season tickets, maybe even a majority of it, but I do think there should be a significant allotment be given to the average joes. Because once the prices go up for season tickets, the prices are going to go up on scalper sites even more. To be honest, Alabama makes more money with folks actually coming to the games, and not as much in selling tickets. Sure Ill still be able to go because I know when to buy, and its usually just for myself, but judging by how many folks on here that believe they are expensive already I think its safe to assume there will be less folks going in the future.
What I'm guessing that happens is down the line they are going to do away with TP and going to an NFL corporate sponsorship kinda thing, and selling all remaining tickets through the university.
You state a significant ticket allotment should be given to average joes. They already do that. I'm an average joe that happens to be in Tide Pride. I dare say the majority of Tide Pride members, at least those that I know and those that sit around me, are average fans too. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you were a TP member - especially if you were a thirty year member. It is easy to be anti-something when you're not a part of it. For a variety of reasons members leave TP every year and there is a long, long list of people that have been waiting years to join, so your viewpoint on TP might not be widely held. If you're not on the list, get on it, there's always room for a few more average joes, it's a great way to avoid StubHub and scalper ticket prices. ;)
 
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81usaf92

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You state a significant ticket allotment should be given to average joes. They already do that. I'm an average joe that happens to be in Tide Pride. I dare say the majority of Tide Pride members, at least those that I know and those that sit around me, are average fans too. Perhaps you'd feel differently if you were a TP member - especially if you were a thirty year member. It is easy to be anti-something when you're not a part of it. For a variety of reasons members leave TP every year and there is a long, long list of people that have been waiting years to join, so your viewpoint on TP might not be widely held. If you're not on the list, get on it, there's always room for a few more average joes, it's a great way to avoid StubHub and scalper ticket prices. ;)
My issue is that everytime the issue of empty seats comes up the trend is "Its because of lack of quality of home games", "its the students", etc. But the one thing almost never aimed at the real problem.... Tide Priders either selling their seats or just not coming. Ive sat in a Tide Pride section for 4 years with a friend and the folks behind me, and the folks in front of me never come to games. We always saw opposing fans, empty seats, or different folks every week in front or behind us every week. Its kinda embarrassing knowing that LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans are going to have a half of a row in front and a half of a row behind you in a TP section everytime they come to BDS. That's crap, and those seats should be going to more committed Alabama fans who have been on the list for awhile. If you give a significant amount to the non TP public then attendance will go up, and BDS will have far less empty seats.

FWIW I'm not against TP, I'm more for scaling TP and student seats (the upper deck) back a few thousand and giving it to the non tide pride public.
 
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Bamabuzzard

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If by "win multiple NCs" you mean competing for two, then OK. If Tua supplants Jalen as the starter, he's gone to the NFL after the 2019 season. You won't see him finish out his eligibility here. Ditto DeVonta Smith, Jerry Jeudy, etc., barring injury.

In my opinion, anything that takes the actual players into consideration as a determining factor -- beyond their health and well-being -- is poor business. You see this mostly when schools let players have a say in replacing a head coach. But it also comes up when schools try to capitalize on a certain player's popularity or performance. There is no less reliable, repeatable factor than whatever a teenager happens to be doing at any given moment. I think you can capitalize on Saban, but once you extend that to Tua and Co.,. you're in the danger zone if you're letting that drive $600MM decisions.

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Anyone would be a total idiot to base a $600 million decision on a player or players who will only be there three years. What I'm saying is that since they've already made the decision to go forward with the $600 million project. It would be advantageous for them to take full advantage of the current climate surrounding Alabama football. You've got a legendary rock star coach just coming off winning his 5th NC at the school in 9 years, a group of sensational sophomores who basically won the NCG for you, and a potential phenom quarterback who is already the favorite (according to Vegas odds) to win the Heisman. That is a recipe ripe for raking in money. On big projects like this the goal is to get as much money on the front end of the project as possible and I think we have a golden opportunity now and through 2019 to capitalize on it.
 
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JessN

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My issue is that everytime the issue of empty seats comes up the trend is "Its because of lack of quality of home games", "its the students", etc. But the one thing almost never aimed at the real problem.... Tide Priders either selling their seats or just not coming. Ive sat in a Tide Pride section for 4 years with a friend and the folks behind me, and the folks in front of me never come to games. We always saw opposing fans, empty seats, or different folks every week in front or behind us every week. Its kinda embarrassing knowing that LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans are going to have a half of a row in front and a half of a row behind you in a TP section everytime they come to BDS. That's crap, and those seats should be going to more committed Alabama fans who have been on the list for awhile. If you give a significant amount to the non TP public then attendance will go up, and BDS will have far less empty seats.

FWIW I'm not against TP, I'm more for scaling TP and student seats (the upper deck) back a few thousand and giving it to the non tide pride public.
It's them and the students both, but yes, we have a problem with that.

The students, I've long said, need to be held very accountable for not coming. Admins want the students there, because they're louder, rowdier, and create a good show for recruits and TV audiences. But the fact of the matter is they're not going to show up for an 11 a.m. Coastal Carolina kickoff unless they're made to do so through threat of not having tickets to AU/LSU/UT. As soon as the technology came in late 90s to scan ACT cards and figure out who was actually in the stadium, we should have been tying attendance at the crap games to attendance at the good games: Show up for crap, or don't bother showing up for the showpiece.

As for TPers not coming to Bryant-Denny, one of the things we haven't talked about is gameday ingress/egress issues. The university decided about a decade ago that it wanted everyone who came to the games to park in a university-owned or university-leased lot, then walk to the stadium or bus in. The problem with that is if you park on the east side of the stadium, which is where they want most people to park so they can control them, you're a very long walk away from Bryant-Denny and for early games in September, the handicapped and elderly can't make that walk and a lot of us younger folks simply don't want to.

For decades, there was plenty of parking on the west side of the stadium, in yards or at houses, but those homes are being demolished at a frightening rate, replaced by multi-story condos that hire security guards for game day to make sure no one parks there. On top of that, the city went full-on draconian about towing vehicles just a few inches over a sidewalk or a yellow line. I'm sure they did it because UA was right there pushing them to do it, hoping those vehicles would move east of Bryant-Denny. However that killed the mood for a lot of people, not to mention that parking on the west side of the stadium typically cut your walk by half or more. And if you were going either north to the Shoals or south to Mobile, parking on the west side cut 1-2 hours off your get-home time.

None of this, UA even cares about. Not one whit. What we're headed towards is a scenario where UA controls 80% or more of all parking zones, charges for them (thus maximizing revenue) yet not having a shuttle service that can keep up with demand. Again, they. do. not. care. I worked for UA back in the 90s and they wanted it then. They just couldn't figure out how to lasso it. Now the condo boom is helping do it for them, because every time a condo goes up, you lose about 5 parking spaces, on average, that UA doesn't control.

The worse this gets, the less likely TPers are going to want to fool with it all. TV technology will never replace good seats high up, where you can see the defensive backfield and receiver patterns emerge (TV focuses on who has the ball) -- unless every game gets the multi-camera, multi-feed treatment -- but there's a balancing point here where it's just not worth coming to the stadium anymore. I paid out about $250 in parking fees last year to park on private land so I could get the heck out of there after games and file stories here. I'm sure that's going up to $300 or more this year. Add that to cost of attendance/tickets, concession prices and the like, and "everyday fans" are being subtly told to get out and make room for corporate/high-dollar folks who don't complain. How much you want to bet a special UA shuttle system for high-level donors isn't already in the works (or already exists)?
 

81usaf92

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It's them and the students both, but yes, we have a problem with that.

The students, I've long said, need to be held very accountable for not coming. Admins want the students there, because they're louder, rowdier, and create a good show for recruits and TV audiences. But the fact of the matter is they're not going to show up for an 11 a.m. Coastal Carolina kickoff unless they're made to do so through threat of not having tickets to AU/LSU/UT. As soon as the technology came in late 90s to scan ACT cards and figure out who was actually in the stadium, we should have been tying attendance at the crap games to attendance at the good games: Show up for crap, or don't bother showing up for the showpiece.

As for TPers not coming to Bryant-Denny, one of the things we haven't talked about is gameday ingress/egress issues. The university decided about a decade ago that it wanted everyone who came to the games to park in a university-owned or university-leased lot, then walk to the stadium or bus in. The problem with that is if you park on the east side of the stadium, which is where they want most people to park so they can control them, you're a very long walk away from Bryant-Denny and for early games in September, the handicapped and elderly can't make that walk and a lot of us younger folks simply don't want to.

For decades, there was plenty of parking on the west side of the stadium, in yards or at houses, but those homes are being demolished at a frightening rate, replaced by multi-story condos that hire security guards for game day to make sure no one parks there. On top of that, the city went full-on draconian about towing vehicles just a few inches over a sidewalk or a yellow line. I'm sure they did it because UA was right there pushing them to do it, hoping those vehicles would move east of Bryant-Denny. However that killed the mood for a lot of people, not to mention that parking on the west side of the stadium typically cut your walk by half or more. And if you were going either north to the Shoals or south to Mobile, parking on the west side cut 1-2 hours off your get-home time.

None of this, UA even cares about. Not one whit. What we're headed towards is a scenario where UA controls 80% or more of all parking zones, charges for them (thus maximizing revenue) yet not having a shuttle service that can keep up with demand. Again, they. do. not. care. I worked for UA back in the 90s and they wanted it then. They just couldn't figure out how to lasso it. Now the condo boom is helping do it for them, because every time a condo goes up, you lose about 5 parking spaces, on average, that UA doesn't control.

The worse this gets, the less likely TPers are going to want to fool with it all. TV technology will never replace good seats high up, where you can see the defensive backfield and receiver patterns emerge (TV focuses on who has the ball) -- unless every game gets the multi-camera, multi-feed treatment -- but there's a balancing point here where it's just not worth coming to the stadium anymore. I paid out about $250 in parking fees last year to park on private land so I could get the heck out of there after games and file stories here. I'm sure that's going up to $300 or more this year. Add that to cost of attendance/tickets, concession prices and the like, and "everyday fans" are being subtly told to get out and make room for corporate/high-dollar folks who don't complain. How much you want to bet a special UA shuttle system for high-level donors isn't already in the works (or already exists)?
If they controlled the Tpers like they do the students then I guarantee you that there would be more butts in seats or newer Tpers every year.

The students for home games are given tickets on their ACT cards in which they receive a penalty if they don’t go, or transfer/donate too late. Get enough penalties, I think like 2 games, and they can’t get tickets the next year. Meaning that any selling of the ticket is usually done between students.

I know they would never implement this for TPers, but they really need to crack down on who comes and who sells tickets to LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans instead of coming.
 

trenda

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If they controlled the Tpers like they do the students then I guarantee you that there would be more butts in seats or newer Tpers every year.

The students for home games are given tickets on their ACT cards in which they receive a penalty if they don’t go, or transfer/donate too late. Get enough penalties, I think like 2 games, and they can’t get tickets the next year. Meaning that any selling of the ticket is usually done between students.

I know they would never implement this for TPers, but they really need to crack down on who comes and who sells tickets to LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans instead of coming.
The student section is nowhere near filled - frequently. If THAT is controlling the students, then why bother with Tide Pride?

Jess has made some great points; but I also think a couple of other things are factoring in to attendance issues. One, TV. Besides the obvious issue of it being so easy to catch every game on TV, the games drag on FOREVER. a 6:30/7:00 game will run until 10:00 (or later); and, heaven forbid, those ridiculous 8:00 kick offs. By the time you're out of the stadium and into traffic, it's near midnight. Why pay the exorbitant costs of attending a game for that???

Two, scheduling. I've had season tickets for twenty years; and, while it's great to be on this run our program is on, when half of the home schedule is filled with Arkansas State, LA-Lafayette and the Citadel . . . it's just not a lot of fun anymore to watch the Tide beat up on these schools. Schedule one of these schools, okay; but THREE???? Come on . . . Honestly, for what my donation and four tickets cost, I have a hard time justifying my time (driving in from Nashville) and money.

To me, it doesn't matter what upgrades you make to the stadium, if you can't put good competition out there for the price you're charging people are going to push back (by not showing up). You're putting a great product on the field for the home side; but, who wants to pay all of that cash to watch a glorified scrimmage?
 

Isaiah 63:1

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If they controlled the Tpers like they do the students then I guarantee you that there would be more butts in seats or newer Tpers every year...
I’m not a Tide Pride Member, but I’m willing to bet the selling of Tide Pride tickets is a perk that allows many members to justify the cost. Restrict their resale and, all things being equal, the University would see demand and revenue drop. TIde Pride is about maximizing risk-adjusted revenue, not game-by-game loyalty.

The market for Tide Pride tickets is likely inefficient, because of a combination of the fixed costs of the donations, the variable cost of the bundled tickets, and, for now at least, psychology - people will pay more, probably irrationally so, for tickets to a winning program. Some season ticket holders, like 2000s Wall Street investment bankers, are creating derivatives, using the inefficiencies to their advantage by selling off individual games for something more closely approximating their true value, thereby wringing some of the inefficiencies from the system and lowering the cost of their investment. Outlaw the derivatives, and the value of the underlying assets (the Tide Pride packages) will fall. The University doesn’t want that. They are almost certainly aware that there are inefficiencies, but tolerate them as part of a portfolio strategy - locking in some revenue even if it means leaving some on the table.


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81usaf92

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The student section is nowhere near filled - frequently. If THAT is controlling the students, then why bother with Tide Pride?

Jess has made some great points; but I also think a couple of other things are factoring in to attendance issues. One, TV. Besides the obvious issue of it being so easy to catch every game on TV, the games drag on FOREVER. a 6:30/7:00 game will run until 10:00 (or later); and, heaven forbid, those ridiculous 8:00 kick offs. By the time you're out of the stadium and into traffic, it's near midnight. Why pay the exorbitant costs of attending a game for that???

Two, scheduling. I've had season tickets for twenty years; and, while it's great to be on this run our program is on, when half of the home schedule is filled with Arkansas State, LA-Lafayette and the Citadel . . . it's just not a lot of fun anymore to watch the Tide beat up on these schools. Schedule one of these schools, okay; but THREE???? Come on . . . Honestly, for what my donation and four tickets cost, I have a hard time justifying my time (driving in from Nashville) and money.

To me, it doesn't matter what upgrades you make to the stadium, if you can't put good competition out there for the price you're charging people are going to push back (by not showing up). You're putting a great product on the field for the home side; but, who wants to pay all of that cash to watch a glorified scrimmage?
Students who get too many penalties don’t get the option to order tickets the following year
 

81usaf92

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I’m not a Tide Pride Member, but I’m willing to bet the selling of Tide Pride tickets is a perk that allows many members to justify the cost. Restrict their resale and, all things being equal, the University would see demand and revenue drop. TIde Pride is about maximizing risk-adjusted revenue, not game-by-game loyalty.

The market for Tide Pride tickets is likely inefficient, because of a combination of the fixed costs of the donations, the variable cost of the bundled tickets, and, for now at least, psychology - people will pay more, probably irrationally so, for tickets to a winning program. Some season ticket holders, like 2000s Wall Street investment bankers, are creating derivatives, using the inefficiencies to their advantage by selling off individual games for something more closely approximating their true value, thereby wringing some of the inefficiencies from the system and lowering the cost of their investment. Outlaw the derivatives, and the value of the underlying assets (the Tide Pride packages) will fall. The University doesn’t want that. They are almost certainly aware that there are inefficiencies, but tolerate them as part of a portfolio strategy - locking in some revenue even if it means leaving some on the table.


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Then why don’t we allow students to sell their tickets on stubhub? Yes it still does happen but it is far more restricted. I think it’s worse to have LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans all around you in a TP section while there is a long list than splotches of empty seats in the student section imo.
 

B1GTide

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Then why don’t we allow students to sell their tickets on stubhub? Yes it still does happen but it is far more restricted. I think it’s worse to have LSU, Auburn, and Tennessee fans all around you in a TP section while there is a long list than splotches of empty seats in the student section imo.
Students receive tickets at a discounted rate. As part of that agreement, almost no students can sell their tickets to non-students. 30 years ago I used to go to many games using student tickets from friends, but it is very hard to get around the security in place for student ticket entry in most stadiums today - ll because of the discounted pricing.
 

BamaMoon

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It's them and the students both, but yes, we have a problem with that.

The students, I've long said, need to be held very accountable for not coming. Admins want the students there, because they're louder, rowdier, and create a good show for recruits and TV audiences. But the fact of the matter is they're not going to show up for an 11 a.m. Coastal Carolina kickoff unless they're made to do so through threat of not having tickets to AU/LSU/UT. As soon as the technology came in late 90s to scan ACT cards and figure out who was actually in the stadium, we should have been tying attendance at the crap games to attendance at the good games: Show up for crap, or don't bother showing up for the showpiece.

As for TPers not coming to Bryant-Denny, one of the things we haven't talked about is gameday ingress/egress issues. The university decided about a decade ago that it wanted everyone who came to the games to park in a university-owned or university-leased lot, then walk to the stadium or bus in. The problem with that is if you park on the east side of the stadium, which is where they want most people to park so they can control them, you're a very long walk away from Bryant-Denny and for early games in September, the handicapped and elderly can't make that walk and a lot of us younger folks simply don't want to.

For decades, there was plenty of parking on the west side of the stadium, in yards or at houses, but those homes are being demolished at a frightening rate, replaced by multi-story condos that hire security guards for game day to make sure no one parks there. On top of that, the city went full-on draconian about towing vehicles just a few inches over a sidewalk or a yellow line. I'm sure they did it because UA was right there pushing them to do it, hoping those vehicles would move east of Bryant-Denny. However that killed the mood for a lot of people, not to mention that parking on the west side of the stadium typically cut your walk by half or more. And if you were going either north to the Shoals or south to Mobile, parking on the west side cut 1-2 hours off your get-home time.

None of this, UA even cares about. Not one whit. What we're headed towards is a scenario where UA controls 80% or more of all parking zones, charges for them (thus maximizing revenue) yet not having a shuttle service that can keep up with demand. Again, they. do. not. care. I worked for UA back in the 90s and they wanted it then. They just couldn't figure out how to lasso it. Now the condo boom is helping do it for them, because every time a condo goes up, you lose about 5 parking spaces, on average, that UA doesn't control.

The worse this gets, the less likely TPers are going to want to fool with it all. TV technology will never replace good seats high up, where you can see the defensive backfield and receiver patterns emerge (TV focuses on who has the ball) -- unless every game gets the multi-camera, multi-feed treatment -- but there's a balancing point here where it's just not worth coming to the stadium anymore. I paid out about $250 in parking fees last year to park on private land so I could get the heck out of there after games and file stories here. I'm sure that's going up to $300 or more this year. Add that to cost of attendance/tickets, concession prices and the like, and "everyday fans" are being subtly told to get out and make room for corporate/high-dollar folks who don't complain. How much you want to bet a special UA shuttle system for high-level donors isn't already in the works (or already exists)?
Wow, that's eye opening.

Sounds like the UA officials are going to simply push out the little guy. And, here's the sad fact, if in the future we go thru another "shula skid" it'll be sad to see BDS only half full.
 

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