Wanted to give my take on the stadium plan...

CrimsonProf · Aug 20, 2018

One of the things that stands to kill all sports - soccer included - is travel ball, 7 on 7, and summer leagues.

Without getting preachy, there are a lot of families that are unwilling to commit the resources - time, money, etc. - to letting their kid go all out. It is incumbent on high school coaches to make it clear that they will not punish a kid for refusing to play travel ball. As families are relegated to rec leagues because they don't do this crazy travel stuff, those families are going to lose interest in high school sports, which could easily carry over into the college and pro leagues.

bamaee04 · Aug 20, 2018

Timeline on Crimson Standard project...

https://www.tidesports.com/crimson-standard-athletics-facilities-plan-timeline/

UAH · Aug 20, 2018

CrimsonProf said:
One of the things that stands to kill all sports - soccer included - is travel ball, 7 on 7, and summer leagues.

Without getting preachy, there are a lot of families that are unwilling to commit the resources - time, money, etc. - to letting their kid go all out. It is incumbent on high school coaches to make it clear that they will not punish a kid for refusing to play travel ball. As families are relegated to rec leagues because they don't do this crazy travel stuff, those families are going to lose interest in high school sports, which could easily carry over into the college and pro leagues.

I have some experience in the year around grind involved in baseball and can absolutely see where parents would opt out of that very expensive and time consuming routine.

One mitigating factor I feel however, is the fact that college sports and pro sports remain as one of the only ways out for those in the lower rungs of the economic ladder for a big payoff or merely a college degree.

This is what had driven boxing for forever even with its obvious corruption.

Taking Bama as an example there are several players whose Dads played NFL football and that separates them economically from the vast majority of the team. The majority are there because their athleticism allows them an opportunity they would not have otherwise.

Sports economics may well change but it is difficult to see in any near term a lack of supply of athletes coming to sports in general.

trenda · Aug 20, 2018

teamplayer said:
I understand what you are saying, and many people talk about wanting a tougher schedule, but we are at a level where there are only about ten teams out there every year who amount to more than a glorified scrimmage for us. I still maintain that a couple of easy out of conference games are needed each year for several reasons. Now, my reasons deal more with helping the team than worrying about what fans want; whereas, this particular discussion revolves more around what a certain segment of fans seem to want. Anyway, I'm glad the season is inching closer and closer.

The home schedule doesn't have to be chock full of top 10 opponents; but, maybe it could be better/more entertaining than it is and has been. Take Wazzu, for example. Who wouldn't be interested in seeing Mike Leach bring his team to Tuscaloosa. They wouldn't have much of a chance of beating Bama; but would be interesting nonetheless. Granted, they schedule so far out that it's hard to determine if a certain coach would still be there; but hopefully you get my point. I'd rather see Bama play Memphis, Illinois and Duke than Citadel, Arkansas State and La-Lafayette. But that's just my opinion (a long time season ticket holder). I'll still be buying my tix and going to games until I decide it's not worth it.

CrimsonProf · Aug 20, 2018

UAH said:
I have some experience in the year around grind involved in baseball and can absolutely see where parents would opt out of that very expensive and time consuming routine.

One mitigating factor I feel however, is the fact that college sports and pro sports remain as one of the only ways out for those in the lower rungs of the economic ladder for a big payoff or merely a college degree.

This is what had driven boxing for forever even with its obvious corruption.

Taking Bama as an example there are several players whose Dads played NFL football and that separates them economically from the vast majority of the team. The majority are there because their athleticism allows them an opportunity they would not have otherwise.

Sports economics may well change but it is difficult to see in any near term a lack of supply of athletes coming to sports in general.

Just deleted my posts, but my point is that all this year round, travel stuff is a rich man's game. It's already pricing out middle and lower income kids, and will only get worse.

CrimsonProf · Aug 20, 2018

trenda said:
The home schedule doesn't have to be chock full of top 10 opponents; but, maybe it could be better/more entertaining than it is and has been. Take Wazzu, for example. Who wouldn't be interested in seeing Mike Leach bring his team to Tuscaloosa. They wouldn't have much of a chance of beating Bama; but would be interesting nonetheless. Granted, they schedule so far out that it's hard to determine if a certain coach would still be there; but hopefully you get my point. I'd rather see Bama play Memphis, Illinois and Duke than Citadel, Arkansas State and La-Lafayette. But that's just my opinion (a long time season ticket holder). I'll still be buying my tix and going to games until I decide it's not worth it.

You're asking for something that's just not possible.

B1GTide · Aug 20, 2018

You guys realize that the main reason that your weaker opponents are complete pushovers is because you are so dominant, right? It wasn't so very long ago that you would have loved to go see any game. Sure, Arkansas State might not have had a chance to beat you, but teams like Southern Miss did.

IMO, you should stop complain about these games. Go to them. Enjoy the beat downs. Revel in your dominance. Pretty soon these teams won't look like such complete patsies any more.

Probius · Aug 20, 2018

I much prefer to go to a Bama game than seeing it on TV, there's just something about the live experience that I love. When I'm at the game I can see so much more of the field and there is so much that I miss while watching on TV. On TV, the entire secondary is impossible to see, so I never know what the QB is looking at. However, it is hard to make the trip to go see games in person. There is a serious committment in time involved in going to a game. I'm going to need two hours in driving down from B'ham, parking, and getting to the stadium. There is another 2 hours in getting back home after the game. That's 4 hours outside of the actual game. When I was in my 20's, I would go down with no problem. The older I get, though, the harder it is to take that much time to go down and see Bama since I have other things going on in my life, and I don't even have a spouse and children. For many people, I think it's hard to justify to themselves making the trip down to Tuscaloosa when they have so many other things going on, and it's so easy to just watch the game on TV. It's a real testament to Alabama football that so many people in this state travel so far to home games, but, when every game is on national TV, it does get harder for many people to make the trip. For many, it's just a matter of practicality in a hectic world.

Probius · Aug 20, 2018

B1GTide said:
You guys realize that the main reason that your weaker opponents are complete pushovers is because you are so dominant, right? It wasn't so very long ago that you would have loved to go see any game. Sure, Arkansas State might not have had a chance to beat you, but teams like Southern Miss did.

IMO, you should stop complain about these games. Go to them. Enjoy the beat downs. Revel in your dominance. Pretty soon these teams won't look like such complete patsies any more.

Well said. We need to enjoy this while it lasts.

teamplayer · Aug 20, 2018

B1GTide said:
You guys realize that the main reason that your weaker opponents are complete pushovers is because you are so dominant, right? It wasn't so very long ago that you would have loved to go see any game. Sure, Arkansas State might not have had a chance to beat you, but teams like Southern Miss did.

IMO, you should stop complain about these games. Go to them. Enjoy the beat downs. Revel in your dominance. Pretty soon these teams won't look like such complete patsies any more.

Not only that, but I know the primary contributors need some down time to recover, and I love seeing some guys who bust their tails but rarely get to play have some opportunities. We don't get to have many underdog stories, so a few walk-ons who get to play or earn scholarships are always stories I love. I also like seeing the young, hungry guys who are wanting to get on the field and make a name for themselves.
Edit- I forgot this was in the stadium update thread, so I will say that I like what I saw for Coleman. I am not a huge fan of the BD updates, but I am not a contributor to Tide Pride, and I certainly do not have corporate money to give, so my opinion is of no value. I do hope to make it down to T-town at least once this year, though.

BamaMoon · Aug 21, 2018

It seems clear big money rules at the end of the day, but those OOC games against push-overs is the time when many non season ticket holders can afford to take their families to a game.

I love seeing a father with his young son or a family coming to a game like that. It's how I became such a loyal fan when my dad and uncle took me to games back in the 70's at LF and BDS.

JD95 · Aug 21, 2018

JessN said:
As for what's going to happen to you specifically, $10k one-time enrollment fee per seat (meaning $40k if you have 4 seats in your name) plus a significant increase to the Tide Pride cost of each seat every year. I think it's going up to around the $3k/seat mark annually. And then you have to pay for tickets on top of that.

To be fair, the seats in West side U-1 and U-2 will be totally different from what's there now. Currently people in those areas have a chair-back seat and that's it. The new deal will include access to private Club areas (climate controlled on U-2, open air on U-1) with unlimited food and drink, access to alcohol, televisions showing others games, upscale restrooms, etc., etc. There's no question that it's a drastic increase in the amount of money people will be required to pay, but what you receive in exchange is also drastically different. It's apples and oranges when compared to the present configuration.

BamaMoon · Aug 21, 2018

JD95 said:
To be fair, the seats in West side U-1 and U-2 will be totally different from what's there now. Currently people in those areas have a chair-back seat and that's it. The new deal will include access to private Club areas (climate controlled on U-2, open air on U-1) with unlimited food and drink, access to alcohol, televisions showing others games, upscale restrooms, etc., etc. There's no question that it's a drastic increase in the amount of money people will be required to pay, but what you receive in exchange is also drastically different. It's apples and oranges when compared to the present configuration.

Basically, a "westside zone" but probably more upscale/cost than the north and south ones?

BamaMoon · Aug 21, 2018

JD95 said:
To be fair, the seats in West side U-1 and U-2 will be totally different from what's there now. Currently people in those areas have a chair-back seat and that's it. The new deal will include access to private Club areas (climate controlled on U-2, open air on U-1) with unlimited food and drink, access to alcohol, televisions showing others games, upscale restrooms, etc., etc. There's no question that it's a drastic increase in the amount of money people will be required to pay, but what you receive in exchange is also drastically different. It's apples and oranges when compared to the present configuration.

Basically, a "westside zone" but probably more upscale/cost than the north and south ones?

JD95 · Aug 21, 2018

BamaMoon said:
Basically, a "westside zone" but probably more upscale/cost than the north and south ones?

Yes, that's how I understand it. Those seats will now become the Champions Club and the Terrace Club, with specific new amenities at each level.

WRhodesTider · Aug 21, 2018

JD95 said:
To be fair, the seats in West side U-1 and U-2 will be totally different from what's there now. Currently people in those areas have a chair-back seat and that's it. The new deal will include access to private Club areas (climate controlled on U-2, open air on U-1) with unlimited food and drink, access to alcohol, televisions showing others games, upscale restrooms, etc., etc. There's no question that it's a drastic increase in the amount of money people will be required to pay, but what you receive in exchange is also drastically different. It's apples and oranges when compared to the present configuration.

Not disagreeing with you on that but as a present U-2 ticket holder, I simply can't afford the additional cost and even if I could, I doubt that I would sill keep my seats. I'm just curious if the Tide Pride office is going to work with people like me in finding new seats.

theBIGyowski · Aug 21, 2018

An analogy would be if you were a regular at your local bar...and you always drank the same beer. The bar gets new ownership but keeps things relatively the same. Then all of a sudden, they announce changes to the way the bar will operate. You can keep coming, but they will no longer serve your favorite beer. They are actually converting to a liquor-only bar that only serves top-shelf spirits. So instead of your $3 beer, you will have to pay $10 for a glass of liquor. Sure, what you are drinking is of higher quality and the ABV is much better than a bottle of beer. But if you aren't comfortable paying $10 for every drink, it doesn't matter how good it is. You can just drink at home or at a friend's house and enjoy your favorite beer.

It is an imperfect analogy, but as a Tide Pride season ticket holder who will be relocated (SS7), I have a feeling I won't be pleased with the results. I waited for 9.5 years to get my tickets...only to potentially lose them soon due to the rising costs.

4Q Basket Case · Aug 21, 2018

It's about the money. You can pay, or you can get out. Your choice.

Mrs. Basket Case and I have discussed it, and we have a monetary bar we're willing to chin. Beyond that, we'll opt out.

We've been in Tide Pride since the second year, now have expanded to season tickets for softball, and have made material (for us) contributions on top of Tide Pride annual fees and ticket purchases. We funded a National Alumni Association scholarship, named for her dairy farmer dad who never went to college.

But we also recognize that our time and our money and our loyalty are irrelevant at the program level -- it takes tons of cash to feed that beast. You want $25 million coaching staffs? Nine-figure facilities? An unlimited recruiting budget? Unlimited analysts (a lot of whom used to be P5 head coaches)? An advertising army that would be the envy of Madison Avenue? Success in all other sports?

That stuff doesn't come for free, and the fans are the ultimate sources of the cash -- whether through donations, ticket prices, putting up with infinite ads shoved in your face, whatever.

It's the real world. I wish we could have all that stuff without the cost. I also wish that I'd been Bill Gates' best friend from childhood and Warren Buffett's son. Sadly, neither happened.

The blunt truth is this: we all have options. We can pony up the cash. Or, if we don't have it, or have just reached our choke point, we can take our business elsewhere. Greg Byrne has to strike that balance, and it isn't an easy one. You pay up or you make room for someone who is willing to.

That genie is out, and you can't stuff him back into the bottle.

cuda.1973 · Aug 21, 2018

WRhodesTider said:
Not disagreeing with you on that but as a present U-2 ticket holder, I simply can't afford the additional cost and even if I could, I doubt that I would sill keep my seats. I'm just curious if the Tide Pride office is going to work with people like me in finding new seats.

OK, since I am too broke to have any skin in the game.............

My bet is there will be less seats, period, they will simply thank you for your patronage and give you a Roll Tide!

Could be wrong, just wouldn't count on it. Or try to up-sell you.

uaintn · Aug 21, 2018

4Q Basket Case said:
It's about the money. You can pay, or you can get out. Your choice.

Mrs. Basket Case and I have discussed it, and we have a monetary bar we're willing to chin. Beyond that, we'll opt out.

We've been in Tide Pride since the second year, now have expanded to season tickets for softball, and have made material (for us) contributions on top of Tide Pride annual fees and ticket purchases. We funded a National Alumni Association scholarship, named for her dairy farmer dad who never went to college.

But we also recognize that our time and our money and our loyalty are irrelevant at the program level -- it takes tons of cash to feed that beast. You want $25 million coaching staffs? Nine-figure facilities? An unlimited recruiting budget? Unlimited analysts (a lot of whom used to be P5 head coaches)? An advertising army that would be the envy of Madison Avenue? Success in all other sports?

That stuff doesn't come for free, and the fans are the ultimate sources of the cash -- whether through donations, ticket prices, putting up with infinite ads shoved in your face, whatever.

It's the real world. I wish we could have all that stuff without the cost. But I also wish that I'd been Bill Gates' best friend from childhood and Warren Buffett's son. Sadly, neither happened.

The blunt truth is this: we all have options. We can pony up the cash. Or, if we don't have it, or have just reached our choke point, we can take our business elsewhere. Greg Byrne has to strike that balance, and it isn't an easy one. You pay up or you make room for someone who is willing to.

That genie is out, and you can't stuff him back into the bottle.

This says it all, with the unsaid but understood conclusion: And the University hopes that enough people are "willing to". My NFL friends will tell you that the more you rely on corporate purchases the more "casual" fans you get. XYZ Corp might buy 10 seats, but the odds that they will go partially or completely unused at some games goes up.

Wanted to give my take on the stadium plan...

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