Tua's Heisman Campaign watch

Stats matter, but they just get you in the conversation. Then as it should be, it's other factors such as level of competition, contribution to the team's success, leadership, etc. Then it's things that should not matter such as being in a high profile program and other cosmetic factors. In Tua's case he already had the often overrated "Heisman moment" in last year's NC game. His greatest accomplishment is what no one else could have done: dramatically facilitated the change in the attitude and approach (much more fun to watch) to the game late in the career of the game's greatest coach by his play, character and personality. He is the field general of a historic team. Barring a shocking collapse, Tua is a shoe-in at this point - it doesn't matter what Murray does. He could throw 12 TD passes vs WVU and it probably would not change things enough.

BamaInBham said:

Stats matter, but they just get you in the conversation. Then as it should be, it's other factors such as level of competition, contribution to the team's success, leadership, etc. Then it's things that should not matter such as being in a high profile program and other cosmetic factors. In Tua's case he already had the often overrated "Heisman moment" in last year's NC game. His greatest accomplishment is what no one else could have done: dramatically facilitated the change in the attitude and approach (much more fun to watch) to the game late in the career of the game's greatest coach by his play, character and personality. He is the field general of a historic team. Barring a shocking collapse, Tua is a shoe-in at this point - it doesn't matter what Murray does. He could throw 12 TD passes vs WVU and it probably would not change things enough.

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Murray may have to throw 12 TDs because his defense will give up 11 TDs.

Not that Tua needs to the "perception" help over Murray, but Murray is doing what he's doing in a system made for big numbers and stats and this is something OU QBs have done at other times too in a league noted for defenses giving up huge amounts of yardage.

Tua, on the other hand, stands out even more because he's doing it in the SEC, with a team that normally doesn't faciliate huge QB numbers AND he's doing it at such an amazing and efficient way that he's only having to play 2-3 quarters a game. He's doing it with a program that has won NCs and Heismans in recent years, but Tua's trancended our recent winning style and has taken it into another stratesphere!!!!

This is what college football has feared since CNS came to Bama. The fear of "What if CNS ever gets a real good QB???" With all respect to Jalen, Coker, Sims and McElroy and even acknowledging AJ as the best modern Bama and the greatest QB CNS coached up til now, Tua is just at another level.

I know we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, but if we win it all this year and go undefeated, there are already some who are saying they don't think Tua will lose a game as the starting QB at Bama IN HIS WHOLE CAREER.

With the youth of our team this year, just imagine how much better we can be next year!!!

BamaMoon said:

Not that Tua needs to the "perception" help over Murray, but Murray is doing what he's doing in a system made for big numbers and stats and this is something OU QBs have done at other times too in a league noted for defenses giving up huge amounts of yardage.

Tua, on the other hand, stands out even more because he's doing it in the SEC, with a team that normally doesn't faciliate huge QB numbers AND he's doing it at such an amazing and efficient way that he's only having to play 2-3 quarters a game. He's doing it with a program that has won NCs and Heismans in recent years, but Tua's trancended our recent winning style and has taken it into another stratesphere!!!!

This is what college football has feared since CNS came to Bama. The fear of "What if CNS ever gets a real good QB???" With all respect to Jalen, Coker, Sims and McElroy and even acknowledging AJ as the best modern Bama and the greatest QB CNS coached up til now, Tua is just at another level.

I know we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves, but if we win it all this year and go undefeated, there are already some who are saying they don't think Tua will lose a game as the starting QB at Bama IN HIS WHOLE CAREER.

With the youth of our team this year, just imagine how much better we can be next year!!!

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That was my prediction after the CFPCG last year - 30-0 as a starter. He is that good, and all of your best players on offense came in with him so will be there through next season. Your o-line will have to replace RP and JW, but the players behind them are amazing. And your defense will be better next year from day 1.

BamaInBham said:

Stats matter, but they just get you in the conversation. Then as it should be, it's other factors such as level of competition, contribution to the team's success, leadership, etc. Then it's things that should not matter such as being in a high profile program and other cosmetic factors. .

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Lamar Jackson says Hi

B1GTide said:

That was my prediction after the CFPCG last year - 30-0 as a starter. He is that good, and all of your best players on offense came in with him so will be there through next season. Your o-line will have to replace RP and JW, but the players behind them are amazing. And your defense will be better next year from day 1.

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I'm a fan so I can say this.. I want a 3-peat.

B1GTide said:

That was my prediction after the CFPCG last year - 30-0 as a starter. He is that good, and all of your best players on offense came in with him so will be there through next season. Your o-line will have to replace RP and JW, but the players behind them are amazing. And your defense will be better next year from day 1.

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Not as sure about our defense next year being better from day one. I have a feeling we lose our entire starting DL and potentially 3 of 4 from the LB core. Our DBs will be more experienced though.

Pulled from the Heisman website: The article was from November 2017.

1. Electronic ballots will go out to 870 media members plus 58 former winners on Monday, November 27. They have until Monday, December 4, at 5 p.m. ET, to return their ballots to Deloitte, the accounting firm that tabulates the votes.

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So, for this year, it probably will be November 26th.

Frequently asked questions
How many voters submit their ballots before all the games are completed?
Very few. In 2016, just 15% of voters submitted ballots early. The vast majority (85%) waited until after the final games were played.

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So, If Tua has another good game against MSU, it might be enough to see over 30 percent of people vote early on November 26th. It's probably a possibility that voters will decide before Auburn game.

FThomas said:

Not as sure about our defense next year being better from day one. I have a feeling we lose our entire starting DL and potentially 3 of 4 from the LB core. Our DBs will be more experienced though.

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Davis and Moses will be back. Mack should stay another year, but he might leave. He could be a top 5 pick if he stays one more season. Not sure if Lewis will come back, but he needs to. Jennings is only a junior. The only second team guy that you lose to graduation is Mosley. Compared to last year, you lose almost no one.

81usaf92 said:

Seem to remember reading that the biggest runaway heisman winners were Troy Smith, Baker, and Oj in that order. The article also said Tua might break Troy’s runaway record.

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I’ll still never understand how Troy Smith not only won the Heisman but rant away with it. Baker and OJ rightly deserved it.

BamaJama17 said:

I’ll still never understand how Troy Smith not only won the Heisman but rant away with it. Baker and OK rightly deserved it.

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I went back and looked. There was just no one else compelling. Darren McFadden finished second. And while he was probably the most talented player in the country, Arkansas wasn't a great team that year. Not in the national conversation. Brady Quinn of Notre Dame was 3rd, and was probably only up that high because he was Notre Dame's QB and they were 10-2. Those two losses were blowouts to Michigan and USC though. Steve Slaton was 4th. Does anyone here even remember what team he played for? Well, you all probably do but most fans probably don't.

That was a very underwhelming Heisman field, and Smith led an Ohio State team that was dominant and looked like a runaway NC winner heading into the Fiesta Bowl against Florida that year. Ohio State was not really challenged until the #1 vs. #2 showdown against Michigan that year (other than Illinois for some weird reason).

B1GTide said:

Davis and Moses will be back. Mack should stay another year, but he might leave. He could be a top 5 pick if he stays one more season. Not sure if Lewis will come back, but he needs to. Jennings is only a junior. The only second team guy that you lose to graduation is Mosley. Compared to last year, you lose almost no one.

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And by all accounts our DL recruiting class is going to be CNS's best ever!

Number of minutes played isn't the reason Murray is a real threat. It's about efficiency and Murray is right there or ahead of Tua when it comes to those numbers.

RollTide_HTTR said:

Number of minutes played isn't the reason Murray is a real threat. It's about efficiency and Murray is right there or ahead of Tua when it comes to those numbers.

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His problem - he plays no one, so he has no chance to have a Heisman moment until the playoffs. Going into the season, he had no resume.

Tua started the season as a superstar because of what he did last year. Add what he has done this year and his legend has grown. So, fair or not, Tua's edge is what he did against GA, and it is a huge one.

B1GTide said:

His problem - he plays no one, so he has no chance to have a Heisman moment until the playoffs. Going into the season, he had no resume.

Tua started the season as a superstar because of what he did last year. Add what he has done this year and his legend has grown. So, fair or not, Tua's edge is what he did against GA, and it is a huge one.

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Yea I agree completely. But there is still time. Tua can't afford to have a bad game IMO.

TideEngineer08 said:

I went back and looked. There was just no one else compelling. Darren McFadden finished second. And while he was probably the most talented player in the country, Arkansas wasn't a great team that year. Not in the national conversation. Brady Quinn of Notre Dame was 3rd, and was probably only up that high because he was Notre Dame's QB and they were 10-2. Those two losses were blowouts to Michigan and USC though. Steve Slaton was 4th. Does anyone here even remember what team he played for? Well, you all probably do but most fans probably don't.

That was a very underwhelming Heisman field, and Smith led an Ohio State team that was dominant and looked like a runaway NC winner heading into the Fiesta Bowl against Florida that year. Ohio State was not really challenged until the #1 vs. #2 showdown against Michigan that year (other than Illinois for some weird reason).

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Yes I remember quite well. McFadden’s campaign suffered from being on a 4 loss team, sharing carries in 2006 (284-154) with Felix Jones, and not exactly eye popping numbers. His 2007 season was statistically better. Michael Hart of Michigan had even a lesser case.

Brady Quinn (among with Notre Dame) had ALL of the preseason hype in the world. ESPN and every magazine was all over him. He was the front runner and put up better numbers than Smith by a good margin. He did get exposed against the better defenses he faced. Especially against LSU. Brady Quinn was pribIf ND somehow ran the table and played against Ohio State, he for sure wins the Heisman. Maybe not by the same landslide margin....

Steve Slaton was never going to win. He (along with West Virginia) was just that shiny new toy that fresh out the factory of their 2006 Sugar Bowl upset of Georgia. Heck their QB Pat White was voted Big East offensive player of the year and didn’t even finish top 10 in the Heisman race that year. Now had Slaton played for Ohio State, well it may have been a different story...Same more or less with Ray Rice at Rutgers.

Troy Smith’s Heisman moment/game came against Michigan when it was #1 vs. #2 and it was a “Game of the Century”. He was 29/41 for 316 yards with 4 TD’s to 1 int. His only 300 yard passing game of the season. He was Gino Toretta 2.0.

Then there was Colt Brennan who played for Hawaii and threw the ball like 40 times a game against WAC nobodies. Seriously I don’t need to go any further with an explanation. Same with Ian Johnson at Boise State.

Dwayne Johnson and Calvin Johnson aka Megatron both had respectable seasons but they were always behind the 8-ball because the Heisman has never been kind to receivers.

I’ll agree, 2006 was a year where there was nobody in the top 10 was particularly overwhelming although Brady Quinn was the closest thing to it. Long story short somebody had to win it and man did he ever get exposed in the worst way possible.

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JamieSPC said:

Well, Tua is the unanimous #1 in ESPN's Heisman Watch, and this past weekend only REINFORCED it, according to the commentary. We've come to expect so much (too much?) that we can't even appreciate an incredible performance anymore (and Tua WAS incredible at LSU).

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I don't think anyone disagrees with this?

Tua is the unanimous #1 in this week's ESPN Heisman Watch. Kyler is not even the unanimous #2, much less getting a first place vote. According to the commentary, this week at LSU only REINFORCED his #1 ranking.

Are we expecting so much from Tua that we don't even recognize a brilliant performance anymore, because it's not AS brilliant as it was against weaker competition? I think so.