Tua's Heisman Campaign watch

Ledsteplin

Hall of Fame
Nov 20, 2013
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I'd argue that Tua's stats would be as good or better than Murray's if he played against Big 12 defenses every week. Iowa State leads the Big 12 in total defense but there are currently 5 SEC team defenses ranked higher than Iowa State's defense. Tua also has proven he can handle pressure and lead a team to a National Championship while it is still unknown if Murray could do the same.
And as far as stats go, Tua has racked up his in most games in 1½ quarters of play. I haven't checked, but I think it took Murray more than that to compile his stats. Had Tua played the same length of time as Murray against Big 12 defenses, he'd be way ahead.
 

JustNeedMe81

Hall of Fame
Sep 30, 2011
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He passed the test yesterday. He likely will need one more game against Auburn to lock up the Heisman and the Georgia game won't matter to some extent. He just need to play well next weekend and it's done.

Voters will vote early if they are convinced Tua is fine.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
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D's in the Big 12 don't stat. well because O's in the Big 12 do. No conference has the overall fire power the Big 12 does. I'm not saying Tua is better or worse he just has more help from his D.
How is the defense helping Tua? Yes, it is helping Alabama, but how is it helping Tua? We are talking about an individual award here. Being in the Big 12 helps Murray because it helps his individual stats. Even if OU were undefeated right now, Tua would still be the runaway leader - and it has nothing to do with the Alabama defense.

If you want to argue that Alabama has more offensive weapons, I'll concede that. But this makes no sense at all.
 

rgw

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Sep 15, 2003
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D's in the Big 12 don't stat. well because O's in the Big 12 do. No conference has the overall fire power the Big 12 does. I'm not saying Tua is better or worse he just has more help from his D.
Yep, and that help from the defense diminishes his pure statistics. Tua in a shootout would undoubtedly put up Grier or Murray numbers.
 

crimsonaudio

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Sep 9, 2002
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D's in the Big 12 don't stat. well because O's in the Big 12 do. No conference has the overall fire power the Big 12 does. I'm not saying Tua is better or worse he just has more help from his D.
I'd argue that throwing against air vs throwing against real defenses means it's much tougher for Tua to rack up the numbers he has.
 

rgw

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Murray's 2018 OU would be a lot like Manziel's 2013 Aggies in the SEC. He'd be a big time QB and put up huge stats but their defense would give up 40+ to every competent offense they play.
 

cmmiller711

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Nov 24, 2006
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D's in the Big 12 don't stat. well because O's in the Big 12 do. No conference has the overall fire power the Big 12 does. I'm not saying Tua is better or worse he just has more help from his D.
If it were true that offenses were that much better in the Big 12 than the SEC, wouldnt the big 12 have won.... like... any national titles at all since the Bush administration?
 

uafan4life

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Mar 30, 2001
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Take away all of Murrary's 4th quarter stats and then compare them to Tua's . Tua has thrown all of one pass in the 4th quarter all year. That would be interesting.

Raw Stats:

-- Tua --
Passing: 164 of 237 (69.2%) for 2865 yards, 31 TDs, 2 INT, 212.22 Passer Rating
Rushing: 41 for 184 yards, 4 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 196 of 279 (70.3%) for 3310 yards, 34 TDs, 6 INTs, 205.82 Passer Rating
Rushing: 104 for 739 yards, 10 TDs


Second half plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 34 of 53 (64.2%) for 601 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT, 186.77 Passer Rating
Rushing: 10 for 73 yards, 2 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 65 of 104 (62.5%) for 1175 yards, 12 TDs, 3 INTs, 189.71 Passer Rating
Rushing: 48 for 324 yards, 5 TDs


Fourth quarter plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 1 of 1 (100%) for 24 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 301.60 Passer Rating
Rushing: 0 for 0 yards, 0 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 23 of 32 (71.9%) for 303 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 202.98 Passer Rating
Rushing: 19 for 231 yards, 3 TDs


So, it seems that Murray, at least somewhat similarly to Tua, has gotten the majority of his stats in the first half but not nearly as high a percentage as Tua. Give Tua equal second half passing and rushing attempts to Murray and - assuming he maintains his numbers, and there's absolutely no reason to think he wouldn't have against the overmatched competition - his raw numbers would be significantly higher than Murray's.

Also, think about this: the vast majority of Tua's second-half snaps have come against two Top 10 in the nation passing defenses.

Meanwhile, Murray hasn't faced a single Top 40 in the nation passing defense.
 
Last edited:

BayouBama75

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Dec 7, 2001
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Raw Stats:

-- Tua --
Passing: 164 of 237 (69.2%) for 2865 yards, 31 TDs, 2 INT, 212.22 Passer Rating
Rushing: 41 for 184 yards, 4 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 196 of 279 (70.3%) for 3310 yards, 34 TDs, 6 INTs, 205.82 Passer Rating
Rushing: 104 for 739 yards, 10 TDs


Second half plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 34 of 53 (64.2%) for 601 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT, 186.77 Passer Rating
Rushing: 10 for 73 yards, 2 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 65 of 104 (62.5%) for 1175 yards, 12 TDs, 3 INTs, 189.71 Passer Rating
Rushing: 48 for 324 yards, 5 TDs


Fourth quarter plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 1 of 1 (100%) for 24 yards, 0 TDs, 0 INTs, 301.60 Passer Rating
Rushing: 10 for 73 yards, 2 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing: 23 of 32 (71.9%) for 303 yards, 5 TDs, 0 INTs, 202.98 Passer Rating
Rushing: 19 for 231 yards, 3 TDs


So, it seems that Murray, at least somewhat similarly to Tua, has gotten the majority of his stats in the first half but not nearly as high a percentage as Tua. Give Tua equal second half passing and rushing attempts to Murray and - assuming he maintains his numbers, and there's absolutely no reason to think he wouldn't have against the overmatched competition - his raw numbers would be significantly higher than Murray's.

Also, think about this: the vast majority of Tua's second-half snaps have come against two Top 10 in the nation passing defenses.

Meanwhile, Murray hasn't faced a single Top 40 in the nation passing defense.

Second half plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 34 of 53 (64.2%) for 601 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT, 186.77 Passer Rating
Rushing: 10 for 73 yards, 2 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing:
Rushing:
Second half plus overtime:

-- Tua --
Passing: 34 of 53 (64.2%) for 601 yards, 5 TDs, 1 INT, 186.77 Passer Rating
Rushing: 10 for 73 yards, 2 TDs

-- Murray --
Passing:
Rushing:
Thanks for the break down... I think the Tua rushing numbers for the 4th quarter may not be right. I don't think he ran it 10 times in the 4th qtr against LSU
 

TideMom2Boys

Hall of Fame
Nov 17, 2010
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I still feel that if he has his typical games against Auburn and UGA...he will win it easily.


Sometimes you can't really look at the numbers, I think people will look at "how" he plays. He is just fun to watch and that will help him if the numbers aren't on par with Murray's.
 

prattalumni

BamaNation Citizen
May 25, 2013
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I went on certain forum of a different crimson team and it's amazing how much better they think Murray is than Tua. They forget that Kyler is putting up all those stats against incredibly inferior defenses. Every big 12 game I've seen, their QB's throw to receivers with a ten yard cushion Every Single Time! Heck, I'd have repectable passing stats in that circumstance. Oh and don't get me started on Klatt and Brando. Their only job as sports analysts is to put anyone and anything above Alabama because of ratings (and jealousy).
 

RollTide_HTTR

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2017
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If I were a voter I would have a tough time. I think the biggest knock on Murray is his 2 TOs vs Texas both of which lead to points IIRC.

I think Tua is probably going to win it but these next 2 games could be enough to swing it one way or the other depending on how they play out.
 

TiderJack

Hall of Fame
Jul 9, 2010
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If I were a voter I would have a tough time. I think the biggest knock on Murray is his 2 TOs vs Texas both of which lead to points IIRC.

I think Tua is probably going to win it but these next 2 games could be enough to swing it one way or the other depending on how they play out.
It could but OU is going to lose to WVU and this will end the debate. You don't give Heisman's to the best 7-on-7 league QB and that is what the Big 12 is.
 

KrAzY3

Hall of Fame
Jan 18, 2006
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I find it amazing that people can have a conversation about Murray and the stats he is putting up and just completely ignore the fact that the previous Oklahoma quarterback threw for 4627 yards and 43 TDs last season.

Are we all really to believe that the Big 12 offenses and the system Oklahoma is running doesn't account for a decent portion of the production we're seeing? C'mon... Murray wouldn't do this against the SEC and Mayfield wouldn't have put up those kind of numbers either. How do I know this? Mayfield's numbers last year would have broken the single season passing yardage record and put him second in TDs. Big 12? He was 6th in single season TDs and 12th in passing yards.

Anyone who can't tell the difference between what Tua faces and what Murray faces doesn't understand football.
 

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