Tua's Heisman Campaign watch

RollTide_HTTR said:

This just reads of someone who doesn't pay attention to the NFL much. Bradford if healthy was probably going to be a good if not great NFL QB. Mayfield while imperfect has certainly flashed. Kyler Murray is VERY talented. Yes the system helps(Lincoln Riley is brilliant offensively) but that doesn't mean those guys aren't talented. Plenty of advanced stats that show theyre/were good.

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His point is that their stats probably would not lead to Heismans if they played in the SEC.

KrAzY3 said:

What about Jason White and Heisman runner up Josh Heupel? How can I overstate the fact that a full time starter there has an extremely high chance of making it to New York? That's just reality, and it's obviously not because they have a bunch of superstar QBs. Bradford got cut and Mayfield as of right now is one of the NFL's lower rated passers. It's not like they're producing superstars, but they're darn trying to give them all Heismans.

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But who deserved it more than Baker? Sam Bradford? Jason White?

In all 3 of those races they all WERE the CLEAR choice. Kyler has competition, none of those 3 did.

B1GTide said:

His point is that their stats probably would not lead to Heismans if they played in the SEC.

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Yeah I just don't know if I agree with that.

RollTide_HTTR said:

This just reads of someone who doesn't pay attention to the NFL much. Bradford if healthy was probably going to be a good if not great NFL QB. Mayfield while imperfect has certainly flashed. Kyler Murray is VERY talented. Yes the system helps(Lincoln Riley is brilliant offensively) but that doesn't mean those guys aren't talented. Plenty of advanced stats that show theyre/were good.

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I do pay attention and have followed Bradford's career (he was not worth the #1 overall pick and did not play well for the Rams). He had a lot of potential, he hasn't lived up to it. And thus far Baker reminds me a bit too much of Johnny Football, flashes yes but that's it. I've watched Murray play, he's good but he's not in Tua's league as a passer.

I never said any of those were bad players, never.

But at this point there have been 7 full time starting QBs at Oklahoma since Stoops put his system into place. As of right now, we're looking at 3 winners, and 5 finalists. Out of 7 full time starters! That's ridiculous! No, they don't all deserve Heismans, no playing in that system in the Big 12 does not warrant everyone getting a Heisman and I'm saying this definitively. Oklahoma quarterbacks are overrated! Want to take bets on who has a better NFL career? Murray or Tua?

tusks_n_raider said:

I still can't believe that Deshaun Watson didn't win in 2016.

Sometimes they get it wrong..... hopefully this year they get it right.

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Agreed. I think Tua is the better player but idk that the Heisman is just about who is the best player.

KrAzY3 said:

I do pay attention and have followed Bradford's career. He had a lot of potential, he hasn't lived up to it. And thus far Baker reminds me a bit too much of Johnny Football, flashes yes but that's it. I've watched Murray play. He had talent but got eaten up by the SEC.

I never said any of those were bad players, never.

But at this point there have been 7 full time starting QBs at Oklahoma since Stoops put his system into place. As of right now, we're looking at 3 winners, and 5 finalists. Out of 7 full time starters! That's ridiculous! No, they don't all deserve Heismans, no playing in that system in the Big 12 does not warrant everyone getting a Heisman and I'm saying this definitively. Oklahoma quarterbacks are overrated! Want to take bets on who has a better NFL career? Murray or Tua?

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Tua is a wayyyyy better NFL prospect but that's not what the Heisman is about. Again, I don't completely disagree with you but I think you're underrating some or those QBs

tusks_n_raider said:

I still can't believe that Deshaun Watson didn't win in 2016.

Sometimes they get it wrong..... hopefully this year they get it right.

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Lamar Jackson and RGIII are probably the two weakest heisman campaigns that I’ve ever seen. I still believe that RGIII was given it to give the Big XII a bone for the SEC NCG. How and why Lamar won over Deshaun is crazy.

RollTide_HTTR said:

Yeah I just don't know if I agree with that.

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Then I can't help you. Facts are facts - the SEC plays defense. The Big 12 does not. Tua is better than any of those guys were in college and he isn't putting up numbers like that against the better SEC defenses. So, believe what you like, but it is a straight fact that the SEC plays defense and the Big 12 does not.

B1GTide said:

Then I can't help you. Facts are facts - the SEC plays defense. The Big 12 does not. Tua is better than any of those guys were in college and he isn't putting up numbers like that against the better SEC defenses. So, believe what you like, but it is a straight fact that the SEC plays defense and the Big 12 does not.

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I don't think I ever disagreed with that? Just disagreed that those guys were only Heisman winners because of where they played. Bradford, Murray and Mayfield are/were all legitimately good.

KrAzY3 said:

I do pay attention and have followed Bradford's career. He had a lot of potential, he hasn't lived up to it. And thus far Baker reminds me a bit too much of Johnny Football, flashes yes but that's it. I've watched Murray play, he's good but he's not in Tua's league as a passer.

I never said any of those were bad players, never.

But at this point there have been 7 full time starting QBs at Oklahoma since Stoops put his system into place. As of right now, we're looking at 3 winners, and 5 finalists. Out of 7 full time starters! That's ridiculous! No, they don't all deserve Heismans, no playing in that system in the Big 12 does not warrant everyone getting a Heisman and I'm saying this definitively. Oklahoma quarterbacks are overrated! Want to take bets on who has a better NFL career? Murray or Tua?

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Well seeing how Murray is playing in the MLB I don’t think that is a fair question.

But again out of those 3 OU QBs, which one in their particular race didn’t deserve it?

White was going against Larry Fitzgerald.
Bradford was going against Colt McCoy
Baker was going against Bryce Love.

I don’t think there is a compelling argument that any of those runner ups deserved it.

KrAzY3 said:

Want to take bets on who has a better NFL career? Murray or Tua?

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I’ll take that bet. I already know the answer.

Tua.

Kyler is moving on to baseball after this season. He was an MLB first round pick and is already a millionaire.

RollTide_HTTR said:

Agreed. I think Tua is the better player but idk that the Heisman is just about who is the best player.

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What else does Murray have going for him ... his arrogance?

RollTide_HTTR said:

I don't think I ever disagreed with that? Just disagreed that those guys were only Heisman winners because of where they played. Bradford, Murray and Mayfield are/were all legitimately good.

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That's the thing - great QBs don't win the Heisman very often. The QBs who win the Heisman tend to have flashy stats. So, yes, they were very good QBs, but their chances of winning the Heisman would have been greatly diminished because their stats would have been diminished. Some other player, with flashy stats, would have grabbed ESPN's attention and won the award.

The Heisman does not go to the best player very often. Generally, it goes to the flashiest player.

editder said:

What else does Murray have going for him ... his arrogance?

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Y'all gotta take the crimson colored glasses off a little. I think Tua should and will win the Heisman (depending on the next 2 games) but that doesn't mean Kyler isn't really good. Because he is.

Wolken is a troll. Don't feed the troll.

The numbers all stack in Tua's favor when viewed in context. I agree, he can't go out and have a bad game tomorrow or next week and stay in the lead or ultimately, win. But he is still in the lead. It's just not something to worry about folks. Either he plays his usual game and we finish the regular season 13-0 and he wins the Heisman, or he struggles, and we struggle, and likely lose because of it. IMO, the NC will follow the Heisman for Tua, just like it did Ingram and Henry.

Murray is a great player. But it's not just that the defenses he faces are bad. They are dramatically bad, severely lacking in fundamentals, and very nearly completely inept. Ole Miss would be an 8-4 team in that league. He doesn't deserve the Heisman this season, unless Tua's next 2 games go off the rails. But, if enough of the voters fall into the mental sludge pond that someone like Dan Wolken spends all his time in, I'll take the NC and I know Tua will too.

RollTide_HTTR said:

Y'all gotta take the crimson colored glasses off a little. I think Tua should and will win the Heisman (depending on the next 2 games) but that doesn't mean Kyler isn't really good. Because he is.

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He is, but he also has 9 turnovers this season. He had 2 turnovers against Texas, which caused them to lose. 9 turnovers against air. So, he is good, but he is not nearly as good as Tua.

Just win baby.


Sent from my iPad[emoji208]

I'm gonna tap out for tonight. Roll Tide!

81usaf92 said:

But again out of those 3 OU QBs, which one in their particular race didn’t deserve it?

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The question is does Murray deserve it, almost solely on the basis of his stats. I'm not here to try to strip people of their trophies, I'm just pointing out that Oklahoma and the Big 12 helps skew the production in such a way that their quarterbacks look better than they actually are. So, they win Heisman trophies.

The real irony? The only one to win a championship since Stoops system was put in place, is the one that was only a runner up. Those other guys didn't win championships, so for instance they gave White the trophy and he goes out and loses the championship game, they gave Bradford the trophy and he goes out and loses the championship game. So, it isn't even like those guys are doing great on the big stage either. They're just putting up great numbers and I've already addressed that.