Question: Your thoughts on solicitation of fundraisers in the workplace.

seebell

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Of course it doesn't belong in the workplace. It's not my responsibility to fund someone else's kid's activities. If their kid wants to play sports, etc. they can pay for it.
Listen here Mister Scrooge! :biggrin: Usually the fundraisers are for something extra. New dugouts, new concession stand , fencing, batting cages, sod for the fields, and whatever else you can think of. Not really for the kids to play the sport. Buddy of mine took a bunch of chocolate bars to work, put 'em in a dish and marked a jar $1 each. Take the candy put a dollar in the jar. He sold them all. I agree though, fundraisers can get out of hand. I just usually made a donation equal to what I was supposed to sell.
One time in baseball we had 500 sets of parents all selling the same Tupperware. What a nightmare!

Now if a kid comes up, I always buy from them.
 
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jthomas666

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At my last job the approved method was to send a company email explaining the sale, and people who were interested could go to the parent's cubicle. I had the pleasure of buying a set of Bama tumblers from an Aub. ;)
 

92tide

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May 9, 2000
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Listen here Mister Scrooge! :biggrin: Usually the fundraisers are for something extra. New dugouts, new concession stand , fencing, batting cages, sod for the fields, and whatever else you can think of. Not really for the kids to play the sport. Buddy of mine took a bunch of chocolate bars to work, put 'em in a dish and marked a jar $1 each. Take the candy put a dollar in the jar. He sold them all. I agree though, fundraisers can get out of hand. I just usually made a donation equal to what I was supposed to sell.
One time in baseball we had 500 sets of parents all selling the same Tupperware. What a nightmare!

Now if a kid comes up, I always buy from them.
all work the parents and kids could do :)
 

seebell

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Mar 12, 2012
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Gurley, Al
all work the parents and kids could do :)
That is true, Sometimes the material can be donated and parents do the work. But bleachers and sport specific items have to be bought. We-I aged out years ago-are an independent county association. If something is done the association members do it. I think in the city most of the stuff is done by the city.

Here is a link to photos of some of the latest projects. Scroll down toward. the bottom.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/playcyaa/photos/
 

selmaborntidefan

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I hate them, and my approach is about the same as most of you have listed here.


Let me give a near parallel that angered me, too. I never could get my ex to see the big picture.

Jerry Jones has a racket going on over at his stadium. He hires these high schools to have volunteers (obviously parents as you'll see in a second) who sell beer at the football games. In fact, the night Ohio State played Oregon here, my ex was selling beer. But what he does is he has a set reserve profit that he has to make. Anything they sell ABOVE that they get a percentage of. There were times she worked eight hours up there and they didn't make a single nickel. Jerry, meanwhile, doesn't have to pay concessionaires to work there, either, because it's "volunteer."

She was bugging me to "help our child" by doing this.

I said, "How much is our expected contribution?" Because she probably went and spent 60 to 100 hours over there to make almost nothing. I pointed out she could have worked 60-100 hours at her normal job and it would have paid for it, but what do I know?

Or the kid could do something with an actual return.

I still cannot believe how stupid she turned out to be, but I digress. The point being that it's almost always easier to do the fund-raising thing by just paying for the damn trip.
 

Bodhisattva

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Aug 22, 2001
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I hate them, and my approach is about the same as most of you have listed here.


Let me give a near parallel that angered me, too. I never could get my ex to see the big picture.

Jerry Jones has a racket going on over at his stadium. He hires these high schools to have volunteers (obviously parents as you'll see in a second) who sell beer at the football games. In fact, the night Ohio State played Oregon here, my ex was selling beer. But what he does is he has a set reserve profit that he has to make. Anything they sell ABOVE that they get a percentage of. There were times she worked eight hours up there and they didn't make a single nickel. Jerry, meanwhile, doesn't have to pay concessionaires to work there, either, because it's "volunteer."

She was bugging me to "help our child" by doing this.

I said, "How much is our expected contribution?" Because she probably went and spent 60 to 100 hours over there to make almost nothing. I pointed out she could have worked 60-100 hours at her normal job and it would have paid for it, but what do I know?

Or the kid could do something with an actual return.

I still cannot believe how stupid she turned out to be, but I digress. The point being that it's almost always easier to do the fund-raising thing by just paying for the damn trip.
Why do you hate the children?
 

Intl.Aperture

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on a work trip to ecuador last year i counted 5 large groups of u.s. teens going through immigration at the same time we were (each group was in their matching t's).
I see this ALL the time in my travels. Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras - mostly Latin American and South American countries. Most don't want to fork over the cash to help the people in Africa - that's mostly a joke. But talk about the fundraiser needed for a round-trip flight to Liberia and then accomodations and food. Some of this is subsidized by a local church - but for a 2 week trip it's a couple thousand dollars to send you kids out there.

Instead - we always say that instead of spending 3k for your kid to read to African kids, pass out tracks, and incorrectly build the retaining wall of a school - go ahead and send us all that money and we'll do medical missions, provide micro-enterprise opportunities, drill a well, and fund a modern school.

If a mission trip with 10 kids and 3 adults spent 3k for a trip like that it would cost approximately $39,000. The amount of good a responsible and well structured NGO could do with that kind of money in an African country like Liberia is absurd.
 

crimsonaudio

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Listen here Mister Scrooge! :biggrin: Usually the fundraisers are for something extra. New dugouts, new concession stand , fencing, batting cages, sod for the fields, and whatever else you can think of. Not really for the kids to play the sport.
Unless my kid is playing, what concern is that of mine? Why on earth should I fund someone else's kid's hobby?

If you cannot afford to pay for your kid's hobby, not my problem. And yes, 'stadium upgrades' and the like are part of your kid's hobby.

Hard pass. Pay your own way.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Aug 15, 2004
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Unless my kid is playing, what concern is that of mine? Why on earth should I fund someone else's kid's hobby?

If you cannot afford to pay for your kid's hobby, not my problem. And yes, 'stadium upgrades' and the like are part of your kid's hobby.

Hard pass. Pay your own way.
So other than that you'll take 2 candy bars for $15? Would you like a receipt? :biggrin2:
 

AlexanderFan

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I see this ALL the time in my travels. Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras - mostly Latin American and South American countries. Most don't want to fork over the cash to help the people in Africa - that's mostly a joke. But talk about the fundraiser needed for a round-trip flight to Liberia and then accomodations and food. Some of this is subsidized by a local church - but for a 2 week trip it's a couple thousand dollars to send you kids out there.

Instead - we always say that instead of spending 3k for your kid to read to African kids, pass out tracks, and incorrectly build the retaining wall of a school - go ahead and send us all that money and we'll do medical missions, provide micro-enterprise opportunities, drill a well, and fund a modern school.

If a mission trip with 10 kids and 3 adults spent 3k for a trip like that it would cost approximately $39,000. The amount of good a responsible and well structured NGO could do with that kind of money in an African country like Liberia is absurd.
I would hope that a trip like that is beneficial to the mindset of the people making the journey as well. To return home from a mission like that with a new outlook and a perspective on life is priceless.


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81usaf92

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we brought it back, so borrowed was appropriate
In the military we are taught that there are no theives in the military because no one steals... they tactically acquire things.

It was a load of crap but it was always funny going to court martials hearing a young airman say “ I didn’t steal it. I tactically acquired it.” Thinking it was his get out of jail free card.
 

Intl.Aperture

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I would hope that a trip like that is beneficial to the mindset of the people making the journey as well. To return home from a mission like that with a new outlook and a perspective on life is priceless.


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It can be, but my argument is "What is more valuable? The mindset of your kid or providing permanent life sustaining water for a community of 800 people?"

The argument you posited is the one I hear the most - it's not so much about what the kids accomplish, it's about them gaining the experience and broadening their minds, which is one of the most selfish 1st world things I've ever heard.

They are not close in value. You can have a fulfilled life and an empathetic mindset without leaving the country. Does it help? Sure. But it is not close to essential.
But the money spent in helping your kid have an experience could actually change the course of multiple people's lives if used differently.
For 3k we could put together the pieces of a medical mission with doctors and meds.

People around the world are suffering - some due to their own actions, some because their government is corrupt, some because natural disaster has struck them and wiped out their livelihood. Yet we are so prosperous that we will spend more money than many of these people will make in 3-5 years just so our kids can have an experience.

Absolutely do what you want with your money. If you want to send your kid on a trip to Guat or Senegal or Peru, go for it - but understand that, value wise, there are better options. They are having less of an impact on whatever community they are entrenched in and the value of their personal experience is not even close to comparable to the life-altering aid that could have been delivered to the people there.

I know I'm coming off as jaded, and most of this is NOT directed at you. I've just seen too many kids go on these trips, sing some worship songs, take some pictures with some foreign kids that they can slap up on their Facebook page and Instagram and come back with an "experience" - which is mostly them telling their friends about the cool places they visited on their off-days (which are most of them) abroad.

I just think about the reverse - I think of the first time you turn on the tap of a new well in a community that hasn't had access to safe water in years - or you deliver life sustaining medicines to an elderly couple in a remote mountainous village in Agua Buena, Honduras. I'm so sorry to be up on a soap box because I'm really NOT a bleeding heart type of guy, but I just think the "value" is miles off and I find it incredibly selfish to spend that much money on a trip that really isn't going to change your kid all that much and pass up the opportunity to radically impact the lives of others in a permanent and tangible way.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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I see this ALL the time in my travels. Haiti, Guatemala, Honduras - mostly Latin American and South American countries. Most don't want to fork over the cash to help the people in Africa - that's mostly a joke. But talk about the fundraiser needed for a round-trip flight to Liberia and then accomodations and food. Some of this is subsidized by a local church - but for a 2 week trip it's a couple thousand dollars to send you kids out there.

Instead - we always say that instead of spending 3k for your kid to read to African kids, pass out tracks, and incorrectly build the retaining wall of a school - go ahead and send us all that money and we'll do medical missions, provide micro-enterprise opportunities, drill a well, and fund a modern school.

If a mission trip with 10 kids and 3 adults spent 3k for a trip like that it would cost approximately $39,000. The amount of good a responsible and well structured NGO could do with that kind of money in an African country like Liberia is absurd.
First, I think you are absolutely right. But to play devils advocate I have 2 thoughts.

A lot of that money if not spent on those trips would be spent on other trips or other material things that are likely less beneficial than a service type trip. Many people are more willing to spend money on their or other children taking service trips than they are donating that much to an NGO.

Also, I think the other benefit of travel in general is it helps expose people to different cultures and communities, this should help create a more accepting, tolerant and global world which IMO is invaluable. I would be curious if service type trips actually help to increase donations because people feel more connected and involved to those communities.
 

92tide

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It can be, but my argument is "What is more valuable? The mindset of your kid or providing permanent life sustaining water for a community of 800 people?"

The argument you posited is the one I hear the most - it's not so much about what the kids accomplish, it's about them gaining the experience and broadening their minds, which is one of the most selfish 1st world things I've ever heard.

They are not close in value. You can have a fulfilled life and an empathetic mindset without leaving the country. Does it help? Sure. But it is not close to essential.
But the money spent in helping your kid have an experience could actually change the course of multiple people's lives if used differently.
For 3k we could put together the pieces of a medical mission with doctors and meds.

People around the world are suffering - some due to their own actions, some because their government is corrupt, some because natural disaster has struck them and wiped out their livelihood. Yet we are so prosperous that we will spend more money than many of these people will make in 3-5 years just so our kids can have an experience.

Absolutely do what you want with your money. If you want to send your kid on a trip to Guat or Senegal or Peru, go for it - but understand that, value wise, there are better options. They are having less of an impact on whatever community they are entrenched in and the value of their personal experience is not even close to comparable to the life-altering aid that could have been delivered to the people there.

I know I'm coming off as jaded, and most of this is NOT directed at you. I've just seen too many kids go on these trips, sing some worship songs, take some pictures with some foreign kids that they can slap up on their Facebook page and Instagram and come back with an "experience" - which is mostly them telling their friends about the cool places they visited on their off-days (which are most of them) abroad.

I just think about the reverse - I think of the first time you turn on the tap of a new well in a community that hasn't had access to safe water in years - or you deliver life sustaining medicines to an elderly couple in a remote mountainous village in Agua Buena, Honduras. I'm so sorry to be up on a soap box because I'm really NOT a bleeding heart type of guy, but I just think the "value" is miles off and I find it incredibly selfish to spend that much money on a trip that really isn't going to change your kid all that much and pass up the opportunity to radically impact the lives of others in a permanent and tangible way.
i heard a priest from a church in haiti basically say, we don't need bodies to do the work, we need money to pay our people to do the work and buy needed supplies.
 

AlexanderFan

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It can be, but my argument is "What is more valuable? The mindset of your kid or providing permanent life sustaining water for a community of 800 people?"

The argument you posited is the one I hear the most - it's not so much about what the kids accomplish, it's about them gaining the experience and broadening their minds, which is one of the most selfish 1st world things I've ever heard.

They are not close in value. You can have a fulfilled life and an empathetic mindset without leaving the country. Does it help? Sure. But it is not close to essential.
But the money spent in helping your kid have an experience could actually change the course of multiple people's lives if used differently.
For 3k we could put together the pieces of a medical mission with doctors and meds.

People around the world are suffering - some due to their own actions, some because their government is corrupt, some because natural disaster has struck them and wiped out their livelihood. Yet we are so prosperous that we will spend more money than many of these people will make in 3-5 years just so our kids can have an experience.

Absolutely do what you want with your money. If you want to send your kid on a trip to Guat or Senegal or Peru, go for it - but understand that, value wise, there are better options. They are having less of an impact on whatever community they are entrenched in and the value of their personal experience is not even close to comparable to the life-altering aid that could have been delivered to the people there.

I know I'm coming off as jaded, and most of this is NOT directed at you. I've just seen too many kids go on these trips, sing some worship songs, take some pictures with some foreign kids that they can slap up on their Facebook page and Instagram and come back with an "experience" - which is mostly them telling their friends about the cool places they visited on their off-days (which are most of them) abroad.

I just think about the reverse - I think of the first time you turn on the tap of a new well in a community that hasn't had access to safe water in years - or you deliver life sustaining medicines to an elderly couple in a remote mountainous village in Agua Buena, Honduras. I'm so sorry to be up on a soap box because I'm really NOT a bleeding heart type of guy, but I just think the "value" is miles off and I find it incredibly selfish to spend that much money on a trip that really isn't going to change your kid all that much and pass up the opportunity to radically impact the lives of others in a permanent and tangible way.
What if that trip inspired that first world kid to solve third world problems?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. If I could predict which kid would be inspired and use that experience to make the world better, I would.

There is no price tag on becoming a better human being.


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Intl.Aperture

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What if that trip inspired that first world kid to solve third world problems?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. If I could predict which kid would be inspired and use that experience to make the world better, I would.

There is no price tag on becoming a better human being.


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I anticipated this argument. Playing odds and probability you are FAR FAR FAR more likely to help a native child that will solve his OWN communities problems later in the future by providing him with access to medical care, education, and livelihood.

Because of how many more people are reached and affected by NGO work as opposed to how many kids can go on a missions trip, statistically it's much more likely for change to be enacted from within.

And, like 92 pointed out, there is a HUGE issue of NGO's and mission trip groups actually taking away money from the local community by providing free labor instead of local labor getting the cash. Often these groups are hurting more than they are helping. I'll take the tangible widespread difference being made over the probability that maybe 1 or 2 kids from a group will gain a heart for the hurting.

NGO's are adapting to this crisis as well. For example, we recently built a HUGE water tower in the western Kenya, near the border with Tanzania as the base of Kilimanjaro. The tower pumps safe water to over 15,000 people in the county - just from this one point. It's huge. Taps run to the center of each community so people just go to their "city center" to get safe water instead of walking like 5 miles to a river that they share with wild animals.

However, there were water vendors who would cart in water and disinfecting pills from across the border in Tanzania to these villages and make their trade that way. They weren't consistent and they were overpriced but it was their trade and it was how they fed their families. One flip of the switch and we'd put them clean out of business. Instead, we trained them how to operate the tower, repair and replace the components on the faucets, piping and borehole and now, each resident pays a fraction of the cost they were paying to them to us, and we pay them to maintain the system. Because of it's reach, they make the same amount but the residents pay far far less and have access at any and all times to water - not just when the cart comes round once a week.

To HTTR's point, yes, people WOULD spend it that way, I'm saying if it were raised and donated instead. In some cases it would actually be better for the trip to never happen in the first place. Sometimes some good comes out of it. But always that same amount of money in the hand of a good NGO is 50x more powerful. To your last point about it encouraging further donations- our data has not reflected that. We work very closely with churches and the ones that travel vs the ones that don't have no difference in average donation size relative to their size, and socio-economic location within the country, state, and city.

By and large, going on a trip like this does little. I was raised in the church with a majority of my friends and family taking trips like these. I never went on a missions trip. None of my friends give to charity, and I ended up working for an NGO. I think it's more about the principles your family raises you with rather than a one off experience.
 

AlexanderFan

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I anticipated this argument. Playing odds and probability you are FAR FAR FAR more likely to help a native child that will solve his OWN communities problems later in the future by providing him with access to medical care, education, and livelihood.

Because of how many more people are reached and affected by NGO work as opposed to how many kids can go on a missions trip, statistically it's much more likely for change to be enacted from within.

And, like 92 pointed out, there is a HUGE issue of NGO's and mission trip groups actually taking away money from the local community by providing free labor instead of local labor getting the cash. Often these groups are hurting more than they are helping. I'll take the tangible widespread difference being made over the probability that maybe 1 or 2 kids from a group will gain a heart for the hurting.

NGO's are adapting to this crisis as well. For example, we recently built a HUGE water tower in the western Kenya, near the border with Tanzania as the base of Kilimanjaro. The tower pumps safe water to over 15,000 people in the county - just from this one point. It's huge. Taps run to the center of each community so people just go to their "city center" to get safe water instead of walking like 5 miles to a river that they share with wild animals.

However, there were water vendors who would cart in water and disinfecting pills from across the border in Tanzania to these villages and make their trade that way. They weren't consistent and they were overpriced but it was their trade and it was how they fed their families. One flip of the switch and we'd put them clean out of business. Instead, we trained them how to operate the tower, repair and replace the components on the faucets, piping and borehole and now, each resident pays a fraction of the cost they were paying to them to us, and we pay them to maintain the system. Because of it's reach, they make the same amount but the residents pay far far less and have access at any and all times to water - not just when the cart comes round once a week.

To HTTR's point, yes, people WOULD spend it that way, I'm saying if it were raised and donated instead. In some cases it would actually be better for the trip to never happen in the first place. Sometimes some good comes out of it. But always that same amount of money in the hand of a good NGO is 50x more powerful. To your last point about it encouraging further donations- our data has not reflected that. We work very closely with churches and the ones that travel vs the ones that don't have no difference in average donation size relative to their size, and socio-economic location within the country, state, and city.

By and large, going on a trip like this does little. I was raised in the church with a majority of my friends and family taking trips like these. I never went on a missions trip. None of my friends give to charity, and I ended up working for an NGO. I think it's more about the principles your family raises you with rather than a one off experience.
I think along the lines of httr in that these trips could influence far more than sitting in an auditorium listening to someone like you tell them how bad it is over in a country.

As to your point about not going on any mission trips, sounds like you didn't need to expand your perspective. Not everyone is as fortunate and a trip like that could tip the balance, and certainly would stand a better chance than Mommy and Daddy writing a check to some abstract organization.


Finally, I'm not arguing anything.

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