Abortion

bama_wayne1 said:

As a foster parent I really don't see that as true.

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That’s why I said most, not all. And most may not be accurate beyond the most vocal I’m aware as I know there are no hard numbers. I’m referencing the people that scream about abortion but balk at ever helping the poor, hungry, and so on.

MattinBama said:

That’s why I said most, not all. And most may not be accurate beyond the most vocal I’m aware as I know there are no hard numbers. I’m referencing the people that scream about abortion but balk at ever helping the poor, hungry, and so on.

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I'm not sure who you're talking about Matt. Christians are for defending the weakest among us, infants(born and unborn), widows, homeless. My church and most I've been involved with have generous benevolent funds for assisting those in and out of the church. What we oppose is the federal government performing that role. Promoting the general welfare in no way meant social safety nets when it was written. It is better done by neighbors, families, church(or faith) communities and local charities and governments.

jthomas666 said:

In no particular order:

-- Fund and support Planned Parenthood instead of vilifying it and restricting funding.

-- Admit that pushing abstinence-only birth control is not effective; revise sex education courses to acknowledge same.

-- Do more to advocate alternatives such as adoption, particularly safe harbor laws.

But even with all these things, women should still have the right to choose.

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Just a comment to add. Wide spread poverty, birth control and lack of education is a global problem. Much of the discussion here views the issue from a developed world middle class standpoint versus what actually is the case when dealing with the inner city and the very poor nation wide where family structures have broken down for generations and the educational system is extremely ineffective. In many instances young teenage pregnancies are the norm as are premature births and all of the associated issues from lack of health care availability and effective prenatal care. I believe that it is true that if we viewed hospital records in any of our cities we would find that as much as 80% of births are paid by Medicaid and a equally high percentage are from unwed mothers.

We should face the fact that the system isn't working at any level for the very poor and develop the means to begin to address the real problem that exist through the outreach programs that you speak of.

techster79 said:

I'm not sure who you're talking about Matt. Christians are for defending the weakest among us, infants(born and unborn), widows, homeless. My church and most I've been involved with have generous benevolent funds for assisting those in and out of the church. What we oppose is the federal government performing that role. Promoting the general welfare in no way meant social safety nets when it was written. It is better done by neighbors, families, church(or faith) communities and local charities and governments.

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If you’re not sure who I’m talking about then you haven’t been paying attention to society. You watch enough Fox News that you should have seen plenty of the types of people I’m talking about.

A lot of churches do that & it’s a good thing, and also a lot if them also exist mostly to make money in a tax free haven.

The problems are bigger than neighbors, families, and churches in our modern world, and while they can do a lot it’s usually far from enough.

I don’t have a problem with social safety nets or things like universal healthcare. I think they can be done & run better than they are. I agree with Bod that there is way too much waste in government but I also don’t think it has to be that way. It could be done smarter but it would take a sea change to the way things are looked at & done.

However in the current state of our government I would rather government waste (which isn’t going away) go to helping our society be better place to live & give us all a higher quality of life rather than only going to line the pockets of the mega-rich, defense contractors, and so forth.

techster79 said:

I'm not sure who you're talking about Matt. Christians are for defending the weakest among us, infants(born and unborn), widows, homeless.

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The Catholic church would be a pretty easy example of how that is clearly not always true.

RollTide_HTTR said:

The Catholic church would be a pretty easy example of how that is clearly not always true.

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as are things like this http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/1824489

Jon said:

as are things like this http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/1824489

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but it's in the service of the lord, so it's ok.

Maybe if the issue were presented as abortion reducing the number of liberals, it would gain more conservative support.

Bazza said:

You are the ruler of the world.

You can make anything happen.

For the next 7 days...you only have one objective.

How do you address the issues you mentioned in your post?

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You see, there’s a big picture. And then you look at the big picture. Now look over here at this other thing. Did I do it right?

Bazza said:

Thanks for this post, NT. Love your passion!

If you have time, I'm interested in any clarification you could provide for the last part that I bolded.

Thanks!

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Sure. Some want to say a woman has a choice but a health care provider does not. Abortion or birth control or whatever - to be consistent one should support both the woman’s choice or the providers choice the same. My opinion is that the government should not force an action by anyone. It should be their choice.

NationalTitles17 said:

Sure. Some want to say a woman has a choice but a health care provider does not. Abortion or birth control or whatever - to be consistent one should support both the woman’s choice or the providers choice the same. My opinion is that the government should not force an action by anyone. It should be their choice.

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then we have to figure out a way to regulate the number of hospitals owned by religious organizations. Right now 1 in 6 hospital beds are in Catholic hospitals and in some states a full 40% of beds are Catholic. That means if there are complications that require a procedure many are likely not going to be able. This actually isn't hypothetical for me, I had a reaction to the local during a vasectomy and the Urologist I went to only had admit privileges at a Catholic hospital that forbid the procedure so I had to find another Doctor and have the procedure a second time. This was not a positive experience and it added a question for me when I interview docs. Fortunately this isn't life or death it is just unpleasant but there are tales of women sent home with extreme complications because the hospital couldn't go against the faith and that ain't right

Jon said:

then we have to figure out a way to regulate the number of hospitals owned by religious organizations. Right now 1 in 6 hospital beds are in Catholic hospitals and in some states a full 40% of beds are Catholic. That means if there are complications that require a procedure many are likely not going to be able. This actually isn't hypothetical for me, I had a reaction to the local during a vasectomy and the Urologist I went to only had admit privileges at a Catholic hospital that forbid the procedure so I had to find another Doctor and have the procedure a second time. This was not a positive experience and it added a question for me when I interview docs. Fortunately this isn't life or death it is just unpleasant but there are tales of women sent home with extreme complications because the hospital couldn't go against the faith and that ain't right

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dang, you had to do that twice? remember, if a sperm is wasted, god gets quite irate. maybe she was sending you a message

Jon said:

then we have to figure out a way to regulate the number of hospitals owned by religious organizations. Right now 1 in 6 hospital beds are in Catholic hospitals and in some states a full 40% of beds are Catholic. That means if there are complications that require a procedure many are likely not going to be able. This actually isn't hypothetical for me, I had a reaction to the local during a vasectomy and the Urologist I went to only had admit privileges at a Catholic hospital that forbid the procedure so I had to find another Doctor and have the procedure a second time. This was not a positive experience and it added a question for me when I interview docs. Fortunately this isn't life or death it is just unpleasant but there are tales of women sent home with extreme complications because the hospital couldn't go against the faith and that ain't right

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As said earlier: Caveats apply.

There are many problems at play here including certificate of need requirements for hospitals and other regulations that prevent competition in many markets.

Sorry you experienced that.

NationalTitles17 said:

As said earlier: Caveats apply.

There are many problems at play here including certificate of need requirements for hospitals and other regulations that prevent competition in many markets.

Sorry you experienced that.

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wasn't fun for sure but like I said just unpleasant for me. I read a story a couple of years ago about a women who died during a miscarriage that her doctors sent her home to have because the Catholic hospital wouldn't do the medically necessary procedure. The closest non catholic hospital to her was several hours in the car, want to do that in pain? Medical need should trump faith every time or the entire system falls apart. Without it some billionaire Jehovahs witness could buy up all the hospital beds in an area and ban blood transfusions or something else equally appalling. Can you imagine being in a ER and having a critical need for blood and having a priest/preacher/nun (whatever the witness term is) say no? This happens to women in this country every single day and this isn't the Republic of Gilead yet as much as our righty friends may want it to be

I have met a few people over the years that I wish their parents had considered it.