F-35 fighter jet poised for combat debut

Bodhisattva said:

The Joint Strike Fighter is a cool - if insanely expensive - bit of war machine. I've been working on the Air Force side of the F-35 Joint Program Office for a few months.



https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/25/politics/us-f-35-combat-missions/index.html

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A neat bit of disinformation (cost overruns, questions about efficacy of the platform, etc) from the DoD during the development stage of the project. Looks like a great plane. Expensive as Hell, but probably well worth the investment.

Looks like the Russians have all but abandoned their stealth fighter (Su57).

https://youtu.be/93NdwZAeXhI

Fairly maneuverable. If the skies weren't owned before, they will be soon.


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Yikes....think of all the motorcycles I could buy with what one of these costs! :biggrin2:

Not sure Trump understands the meaning of "stealth".

GrayTide said:

Not sure Trump understands the meaning of "stealth".

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There has to be a video out there of Trump at a B-2 flyover yelling "FLIP THE SWITCH!!!"

Just saw a demonstration of the F-22 at the Norfolk air show this weekend. We already owned the skies. The things the F-22 could do compared to the other jets on display was ridiculous. Now you get a basically a little brother jet that has even more maneuverability. Not as fast overall, but slicker and more equipped for different styles of engagement. It's also cheaper to make than the F-22 ever was - though they apparently cost exactly the same to operate, that is to say, $60,000 an hour.

Intl.Aperture said:

Just saw a demonstration of the F-22 at the Norfolk air show this weekend. We already owned the skies. The things the F-22 could do compared to the other jets on display was ridiculous. Now you get a basically a little brother jet that has even more maneuverability. Not as fast overall, but slicker and more equipped for different styles of engagement. It's also cheaper to make than the F-22 ever was - though they apparently cost exactly the same to operate, that is to say, $60,000 an hour.

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My brother works in engineering for the main contractor for the F-22. He said that when the F-35 came about, they were ordered to destroy all of the plans and machines used for creating the F-22.....for fear of any of it falling into the wrong hands. If they ever wanted to build more F-22, they would basically be starting from scratch.

Its On A Slab said:

My brother works in engineering for the main contractor for the F-22. He said that when the F-35 came about, they were ordered to destroy all of the plans and machines used for creating the F-22.....for fear of any of it falling into the wrong hands. If they ever wanted to build more F-22, they would basically be starting from scratch.

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I have seen some information that the Chinese are very active in seeking plans for these large defense systems. One could conjecture that they have a huge cyber effort to gain access into the contractors information systems. These plans were likely compromised well before they were destroyed. Just conjecture obviously but our IP problem with China is a lot bigger than what is typically discussed in network news.

Intl.Aperture said:

Just saw a demonstration of the F-22 at the Norfolk air show this weekend. We already owned the skies. The things the F-22 could do compared to the other jets on display was ridiculous. Now you get a basically a little brother jet that has even more maneuverability. Not as fast overall, but slicker and more equipped for different styles of engagement. It's also cheaper to make than the F-22 ever was - though they apparently cost exactly the same to operate, that is to say, $60,000 an hour.

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There are different ways to quote unit costs but by most measures I have seen the F35 costs more, roughly 200 - 230 million vs about 150 million

I was in Ft Worth a few weeks ago at the Lockheed F-35 production plant. Impressive set-up to move through so many variants for the different Services and countries. Wish I could have spent a longer time on the production floor.

GrayTide said:

Not sure Trump understands the meaning of "stealth".

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Based on statements he has made repeatedly he 100% believes stealth planes are literally invisible to the human eye.

Bodhi, if you were doing your job, both Trump and the F-35 would be invisible!:biggrin:

Bamaro said:

There are different ways to quote unit costs but by most measures I have seen the F35 costs more, roughly 200 - 230 million vs about 150 million

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Agreed. Per jet production is supposed to be cheaper than the F-22 was. The development was the killer. Development nightmare.

My FIL works for Huntington Ingalls (formerly Northrop Grumman) building ships for the Navy. He just finished working on the USS Gerald R. Ford (Gerald R. Ford is intended to be the first of a class of aircraft carriers that offer significant performance improvements over the previous Nimitz class. Gerald R. Ford is equipped with an AN/SPY-3 and AN/SPY-4 active electronically scanned array multi-function radar,[SUP][52][/SUP] and an island that is shorter in length and 20 feet (6.1 m) taller than that of the Nimitz class; it is set 140 feet (43 m) further aft and 3 feet (0.91 m) closer to the edge of the ship. Replacing traditional steam catapults, the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) will launch all carrier aircraft. This innovation eliminates the traditional requirement to generate and store steam, freeing up considerable area below-deck. With the EMALS, Gerald R. Ford can accomplish 25% more aircraft launches per day than the Nimitz class and requires 25% fewer crew members. The Navy estimates it will save $4 billion in operating costs over a 50-year lifespan.[SUP][53][/SUP] According to an Associated Press story:These performance enhancements were problematic in Pentagon tests, but final software fixes for some of the problems were delayed until after the ship’s post-shakedown availability in 2019.)
That last little bit is what he talked about most. During the lengthy development process new technology was being created all the time, and the Navy kept wanting to stick brand new pieces on the ship that weren't originally designed to go on it. The magnetic launching is one of those things. The electronics on the ship were a complete mess. So they'd just get a grip on what they were supposed to do and then the Navy would be like, "Check out this rad new radar, or weapons, system - stick this on there!" And Huntinngton-Ingalls would be like, "Uh, ok, but there really isn't anywhere to pu-"
"I SAID PUT IT ON THERE!"
"ALRIGHT! GOD! CHILL! Let's just redesign the whole aft of the ship to make space for this laser rifle they want to have..."

This is basically what happened with the F-35 as well. It's an amazing piece of tech. I think time will tell how useful it is overall. It did not have an auspicious start. The good thing about most weaponry is that it gets such practical testing that the changes and refinements made over time are very useful.

Bodhisattva said:

I haven't been on this program that long, but I've talked to a lot of guys who have been here since the beginning. No one is saying the F-35 program is military-driven. The decision to do this is mostly political. A big pile of money got spread around to a lot of jurisdictions. Same as it ever was.

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Heard the same about the F-22. A portion of construction or element of production came from all 50 states.