25 years ago today the Battle for Mogadishu was fought ( black hawk down)

81usaf92 said:

I agree with when we first went in, but like always we really shouldn’t stay because we have a tendency to make things worse. But believing Somalis were nothing more than rock slinging savages was the government’s grave mistake.

I’ll give Clinton this, at least he learned from his mistake and fought the Malosovich wars mostly through the air instead of mostly through the ground.

But the cat was out of the bag and just reaffirmed the suspicions about the USA weaknesses from Vietnam: No third world country could beat the US military but you could beat the US public opinion. It gave folks like Bin Laden the idea of drawing the US into long engagements and into costly urban battles that could change the US mindset amongst the people. Win the long game by losing the short game. Which is why democracies in general are weaker in long wars as opposed to dictatorships. Democracies don’t do well in long engagements when power is centralized.

Am I saying I want a dictatorship?!?! No and hell no. I’m saying we don’t need to try to win a war in an occupying manner vs a third world nation or failed state. If we go in then we need to win it fast and with a force as big a reasonably necessary with a clear plan.

But I do think letting Adidd off the hook after October 3rd, 1993 was ill advised. I also think Gothic Serpent should’ve never been implemented in the first place, but after soldiers were drug through the streets Adidd needed to be removed from power regardless of what should or shouldn’t happened before that day.

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Its On A Slab said:

Our recent foreign entanglements have come with rose-colored glasses. Thinking Iraq would be a push-over, that the Iraqis would welcome our troops as liberators and with flowers. Getting rid of Saddam, Muammar Qaddaffi, without realizing that the region has no experience with liberal democracy - in fact, it will never work in that part of the world. The only reason Israel is a liberal democracy is that it was settled primarily by Ashkenazi/European Jews.

I admit that I was hoodwinked by the Arab Spring, thinking that overthrowing the despotic regimes would lead to greater freedom and democracy in the region. When all that did is create a vacuum under which ISIS and other Islamist groups could thrive. Even in the war in Syria, does anyone really believe that the force we were backing were interested in liberal democracy and freedom? I think we cast our lot with them because they seemed to be less odious than the murderous Assad forces and the sinister and evil ISIS terrrorists. There were other assorted Islamist groups in coalitions as well. What a mess.

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GrayTide said:

Well, the Russians spent 13 years fighting the Afghans before they threw in the towel and pulled out and we have now been there longer and we still haven't figured it out.

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GrayTide said:

Well, the Russians spent 13 years fighting the Afghans before they threw in the towel and pulled out and we have now been there longer and we still haven't figured it out.

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Its On A Slab said:

Like the British, and Alexander the Great before them.

Afghanistan is quicksand for empires. We were too stupid to realize it. We made great hay about how we toppled the Taliban so quickly, when all they did was run to the hills and continue fighting the low-grade fight until we got tired of it.

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MattinBama said:

Yeah but the profits have been rolling in for the bomb-makers. It's a great place to fight if you want unending war for your military industrial complex and you aren't worried about any human costs.

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