Link: #MeToo darkside: Student has to spend $12,000 defending against false claims.

CrimsonNagus · Oct 10, 2018

I fear this is happening all over this country on college campuses. I think this is a scary side effect of the #MeToo movement because it has convinced everyone to believe the victims at all cost. Unless there is a more balanced approach in the future, this could end up being a very dangerous road for this country to go down.

Two Students Hooked Up. It Was Clearly Consensual. He Still Spent $12,000 Defending Himself.

James, a freshman at the University of California-Davis, was on his way to math class when he received an email that would derail his life for the next few months: The university's Title IX office, which handles sexual misconduct disputes between students, was investigating a complaint against him.

This was in February 2018, at a time of heightened public attention to the problem of predatory men taking advantage of vulnerable women. Journalists had exposed Harvey Weinstein, Al Franken, Louis C.K., Kevin Spacey, Roy Moore, and others for committing a variety of sexual misdeeds.

"This was not a good time to get accused of something like this," James tells Reason.

I agree with the conclusions from the article:

There's little doubt that the #MeToo movement has accomplished much good, or that sexual misconduct is a serious problem—in Hollywood, in politics, in the media, in the workplace, and on college campuses. The bitter confirmation fight over Brett Kavanaugh's nomination to the Supreme Court, marred by accusations of sexual assault and harassment against him, shows that we haven't come close to figuring out the right balance between respect for victims and fairness for alleged perpetrators. It's certainly the case that a lot of powerful men are still getting away with terrible behavior, but we have also seen plenty of public lynchings of men whose failures seemed far less serious or obvious. Jezebel recently called for the #MeToo movement to boldly wade into "the gray areas"—encounters that are problematic but fall short of actionable sexual assault. I wonder if that would mean encouraging more women like Becky to see themelves as victims and behave accordingly.

In the midst of the Kavanaugh battle, President Donald Trump remarked that it was a "very scary time for young men in America," which drew indignant scoffs from the left. The president's interest in due process and the presumption of innocence is, as always, highly selective. But this doesn't mean Trump's critics should completely reject the sentiment. There are many victims of sexual mistreatment, but there are victims of bad-faith accusations as well. James was lucky to get through his "very scary time" unscathed, and those who carry the banner of #MeToo should denounce excesses and overreaches like the one he experienced.

RollTide_HTTR · Oct 10, 2018

Here is my thing. While I would love for cases like this to be stopped but these are the parts of the article that stood out to me.

he received an email that would derail his life for the next few months

He was elated, and in the months since the outcome he has been able to move on with his life.

The kid had a few rough months. Actual victims of sexual assault suffer from the assault often for the rest of their lives. While we should look to create a culture where people aren't falsely accused I'm MUCH more concerned about those who were assaulted and nothing has or will ever been done about it.

92tide · Oct 10, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
Here is my thing. While I would love for cases like this to be stopped but these are the parts of the article that stood out to me.

The kid had a few rough months. Actual victims of sexual assault suffer from the assault often for the rest of their lives. While we should look to create a culture where people aren't falsely accused I'm MUCH more concerned about those who were assaulted and nothing has or will ever been done about it.

false accusations should be addressed and dealt with,

but there is a concerted effort right now to make these types of false accusations seem like regular occurrences wrt sexual assault when they are not.

AlexanderFan · Oct 10, 2018

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...e-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/amp/

Using the 98/2 method l provided by our liberal friends does this mean that the next 196 accusations are absolutely, positively, pinky swear Truth?

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RammerJammer14 · Oct 10, 2018

That girl sounds like a 10 on the crazy scale.

RollTide_HTTR · Oct 10, 2018

92tide said:
false accusations should be addressed and dealt with,

but there is a concerted effort right now to make these types of false accusations seem like regular occurrences wrt sexual assault when they are not.

Not to mention there are still tons of sexual assault cases that are never reported or anything. Literally every single woman that I am close to in my life has experienced sexual assault to varying degrees. Not one of them has ever reported it authorities for their own reasons. It makes me sick that those scumbags are still out there.

92tide · Oct 10, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
Not to mention there are still tons of sexual assault cases that are never reported or anything. Literally every single woman that I am close to in my life has experienced sexual assault to varying degrees. Not one of them has ever reported it authorities for their own reasons. It makes me sick that those scumbags are still out there.

and all of the rape kits (the evidence that so many demand to see) around the country that have gone missing, untested, weren't stored properly, etc.

CrimsonNagus · Oct 10, 2018

What if they are more regular then some want to admit?

Yes, this guys situation worked out for him, although his family is out $12,000, but, what about the cases were the person ends up getting kicked out of school because they can't afford to defend themselves? I just don't like that someone is allowed to changed their mind weeks latter and potentially ruin someone else's life even though consent was given during the moment.

The problem with false accusations on a college campus is that the person being accused, many times, has no way to defend themselves. The schools are not bound by the same laws as the criminal justice system and don't have to find someone guilty to expel them, they just have to think something may have happened.

With sexual assault, it is quickly becoming guilty until proven innocent but, that's not the way it is suppose to work in this country. I use to work at a small local college and we had to go to meetings about this stuff all the time. So much weight is put on the accuser's account that the accused has very little resources to dig out of the hole. It's become "you have been accused of this so prove to us beyond a reasonable doubt that you didn't do anything. If there is any doubt then your are gone."

I'm not saying that the accuser should have to prove everything either, just that there should be a better middle ground. I don't know, I just fear that with how everyone is so quick to chose sides that things are going to get much worse before they start getting better.

I've seen a situation similar to this story play out at my former employer except, it didn't end good for the accused, they were kicked out of school. He had no defense because the school basically said that a women has a right to change their mind even if they said yes originally. That's not right IMO and no one will ever convince me that it is right.

92tide · Oct 10, 2018

AlexanderFan said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...e-students-false-sex-assault-allegations/amp/

Using the 98/2 method l provided by our liberal friends does this mean that the next 196 accusations are absolutely, positively, pinky swear Truth?

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not if you understand extrapolating from cherry picked data

twofbyc · Oct 10, 2018

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NationalTitles18 · Oct 11, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
Here is my thing. While I would love for cases like this to be stopped but these are the parts of the article that stood out to me.

The kid had a few rough months. Actual victims of sexual assault suffer from the assault often for the rest of their lives. While we should look to create a culture where people aren't falsely accused I'm MUCH more concerned about those who were assaulted and nothing has or will ever been done about it.

The answer to the wrongs of the past is not to create new wrongs or to downplay them when they occur. This guy was actually lucky that he could afford to get his life back on track.

I do realize that victims of sexual assault suffer for years upon years, but so do victims of false accusations.

I hope we can find a balance in this.

Unfortunately we will never find a perfect way to deal with it. False accusations will be believed and some of the guilty will get away with it. Still, we have to try to do better than the past and better than the present as well. These wild pendulum swings are not what is needed.

CharminTide · Oct 11, 2018

Melania's stance is pretty sickening.

Melania Trump to Survivors of Sexual Assault: Don't Report Unless You Have Evidence

Melania Trump sat down with ABC World News Tonight for an interview that will air on Friday, during which she discussed the #MeToo movement and sexual assault allegations against Brett Kavanaugh, who was confirmed to the Supreme Court on Saturday.

Trump was away on a trip to Kenya last week as Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearing took place. In the clip of Trump’s interview with ABC News anchor Tom Llamas, the first lady made her position on reporting sexual assault loud and clear to survivors.

“You need to have really hard evidence, that, you know, if you accuse of something, show the evidence,” Trump said. She added that she supports women, and also men. “I do stand with women, but we need to show the evidence. You cannot just say to somebody, you know, ‘I was sexually assaulted’ or ‘You did that to me,’ because sometimes the media goes too far and the way they portray some stories, it’s not correct, it’s not right.”

NationalTitles18 · Oct 11, 2018

CharminTide said:
Melania's stance is pretty sickening.

Melania Trump to Survivors of Sexual Assault: Don't Report Unless You Have Evidence

Pretty sickening that the first lady comes out and says that. In a way it reflects a certain reality - that you may not be believed without evidence - and SA survivors generally understand that, which is part of why they often don't report. But to actively discourage reporting for political purposes (and to protect her husband) is disgusting.

And keep in mind it's not just adults or college students hearing her words. It's also children and adolescents, who are less likely to have evidence but more likely to need more protection.

Out nation is in a sad state now. Somehow I'm supposed to choose between 2 sides that are both nuts. Supposedly if I reject both sides of crazy (believe every claim no matter what vs this disgusting tripe) I enable both. But that's just other people trying to cover their own tracks, if you ask me.

twofbyc · Oct 11, 2018

I think she’s subliminally telling women they should just give in and get paid, like she did.

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CharminTide · Oct 11, 2018

NationalTitles17 said:
Pretty sickening that the first lady comes out and says that. In a way it reflects a certain reality - that you may not be believed without evidence - and SA survivors generally understand that, which is part of why they often don't report. But to actively discourage reporting for political purposes (and to protect her husband) is disgusting.

And keep in mind it's not just adults or college students hearing her words. It's also children and adolescents, who are less likely to have evidence but more likely to need more protection.

Agreed. It looks like the GOP has found their official response to the #MeToo movement.

Out nation is in a sad state now. Somehow I'm supposed to choose between 2 sides that are both nuts. Supposedly if I reject both sides of crazy (believe every claim no matter what vs this disgusting tripe) I enable both. But that's just other people trying to cover their own tracks, if you ask me.

Having just two parties is an unfortunate reality. I think it's fairly telling that when we install democracy in other countries (say, Germany), we do not model it after our own political system. If no single party was able to claim the majority and coalitions needed to be formed, we'd probably be more resistant to the wild pendulum swings that have characterized the last few decades of U.S. politics. But we don't, and the sad reality is you can either vote for one party, the other, or essentially abstain by staying home or voting for a candidate who cannot win in our system. In some locations, like yours, the regional demographics means it doesn't really matter. Here in Ohio, it matters a lot. And when one of the two parties is actively locking tens of thousands of immigrant children in cages and physically abusing them, I cannot condone abstention. We will look back on this period with shame, as we do with the internment of Japanese-Americans. And anyone who supported these actions by either voting for the party that enacted them or abstaining in a place where their vote could have mattered should feel lifelong shame.

/soapbox
/threadhijack

MattinBama · Oct 11, 2018

CharminTide said:
Melania's stance is pretty sickening.

Melania Trump to Survivors of Sexual Assault: Don't Report Unless You Have Evidence

What a dolt that woman is.

Testimony IS evidence. Often times it is the key evidence used by prosecutors. It is up to law enforcement to gather other evidence after the testimony.

In how many other crimes would it work like she mentions?

"Oh so you say your car was stolen. I'm sorry but you're going to have to provide hard evidence that the car was stolen."
"My car isn't here."
"How would we know that you didn't just forget where you put your car? We can't investigate this until you show us hard evidence."

"Oh so you say that you were murdered? Can you provide us with hard evidence showing your murder before we investigate?"
"......."
"That's what I thought. Let's get back to the station boys."

On the other hand she may have just cracked the code on police budgets across the country.

NationalTitles18 · Oct 11, 2018

CharminTide said:
Agreed. It looks like the GOP has found their official response to the #MeToo movement.

Having just two parties is an unfortunate reality. I think it's fairly telling that when we install democracy in other countries (say, Germany), we do not model it after our own political system. If no single party was able to claim the majority and coalitions needed to be formed, we'd probably be more resistant to the wild pendulum swings that have characterized the last few decades of U.S. politics. But we don't, and the sad reality is you can either vote for one party, the other, or essentially abstain by staying home or voting for a candidate who cannot win in our system. In some locations, like yours, the regional demographics means it doesn't really matter. Here in Ohio, it matters a lot. And when one of the two parties is actively locking tens of thousands of immigrant children in cages and physically abusing them, I cannot condone abstention. We will look back on this period with shame, as we do with the internment of Japanese-Americans. And anyone who supported these actions by either voting for the party that enacted them or abstaining in a place where their vote could have mattered should feel lifelong shame.

/soapbox
/threadhijack

I admit that I might possibly maybe perhaps feel differently if it did matter, but it doesn't. From my perspective if more people abandoned the idea that there are only two choices then there would be more choices. This 2 party system is leading to a dangerous place.

twofbyc · Oct 12, 2018

Change can only be forced when the majority of the people demand it; there are several avenues to take to enforce such demands (some vary by state, some don’t).
Americans are too lazy and I think it’s virtually impossible to get the majority of Americans to agree on anything not involving another country.

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Tidewater · Oct 14, 2018

92tide said:
false accusations should be addressed and dealt with,

but there is a concerted effort right now to make these types of false accusations seem like regular occurrences wrt sexual assault when they are not.

In my view the best way to separate the false accusations form the legit ones is corroborating evidence of assault and timeliness is key to getting corroborating evidence.

twofbyc · Oct 14, 2018

Tidewater said:
In my view the best way to separate the false accusations form the legit ones is corroborating evidence of assault and timeliness is key to getting corroborating evidence.

Beyond “he said, she said”, what other way is there?

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Link: #MeToo darkside: Student has to spend $12,000 defending against false claims.

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