Is Kirby the next great coach or is just another Saban disciple?

81usaf92

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The reason some Bama fans take shots at Kirby is because of the Maurice Smith episode as well as speculation that he is a source of much of the negative recruiting towards Bama and his mentor.
That and the insane lovefest and propping up his accomplishments but also downplaying his failures by UGA and fellow Bama fans. Its basically the Mac episode over again, and keep in mind many have swore that Kirby wouldve been a great successor to CNS when he hangs it up.
 

CullmanTide

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It is easy to sit back and take shots a Kirby - I am not sure why Bama fans do because he gave his all while he was at Bama and was an excellent coach - but lets consider his age. Kirby is just 42 years old and in his 3rd year as a college head coach. When Coach Saban was 42 he was the DC of the Cleveland Browns. Coach Saban didn't win his first National Championship until he was 52 years old and in his 10th season as a college head coach. Kirby has a leg up in that regards to that because he already is at a school that has the ability to compete for National titles. I would be surprised if he doesn't get at least one in the next 10 years. Also just as Saban is a better head coach today than he was 20 years ago, Kirby will get better too. However, it is just too early to determine what Kirby is at this time - only time will tell.
Kirby will be fired in less than ten years. The worst thing that could have happened was for Georgia to get to the championship in his second year. That fan base truly believes they are Bama's equal though historically they aren't much better than middle of the pack.. After Florida gets things fully turned around and the Viles become competitive again, things will get back to normal.
 

GrayTide

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I believe Kirby is an outstanding young coach who is in only year 3 at Georgia. Is he the "second coming of Nick Saban", absolutely not. When CNS retires, Kirby may be the best HC in the SEC, he may not. He suddenly has a lot of competition now in the East with Dan Mullen at Florida and possibly Pruitt at Tennessee, who knows. He is an excellent recruiter, has an outstanding staff and is a hard worker. He has all the ingredients, but time will tell. If I had to predict who would be the best SEC coach after CNS leaves it would be Fisher.
 

Go Bama

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No disconnect between these two sentences?

The reality is, on paper, UGA has more talent than LSU - I don't think there's any question Smart got out-coached by Coach Eaux, as startling as that seems. LSU certainly didn't have the overall talent advantage, imo - they just caught UGA out of position over and over...
I just thought LSU caught Georgia flat in Baton Rouge. Maybe that’s coaching, maybe Jake Fromm has been exposed, or maybe Georgia was just having an off day. I’m not ready to say Oeaux is a better coach than Kirby. I realize this is not what you’re saying either.
 

12Namath12

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I was never all that impressed with Kirby as our DC. I thought Jeremy Pruitt was a much better DC.

I am certainly not impressed with his head coaching ability and have echoed this in the past.

As we know, he also has a penchant for stealing recruits.
 
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2003TIDE

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I just thought LSU caught Georgia flat in Baton Rouge. Maybe that’s coaching, maybe Jake Fromm has been exposed, or maybe Georgia was just having an off day. I’m not ready to say Oeaux is a better coach than Kirby. I realize this is not what you’re saying either.
It's coaching when your staff is too dumb to realize your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn. Then, said staff continues to call 3 pass plays in a row for 3 and outs.
 

Redwood Forrest

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I think it is too early to tell. This is only his third year so I think I will wait until at least next year to decide. I think Georgia will still win the East.
 

crimson fan man

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Mullins is getting the florida players believing that they can win, and win they do. If his recruiting ability increases then ga will have a very tough team to play every year. The biggest thing that kirby has is the means of recruiting on a high level. He should win 9 to 10 games a year on talent along.
 

Go Bama

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It's coaching when your staff is too dumb to realize your QB can't hit the broad side of a barn. Then, said staff continues to call 3 pass plays in a row for 3 and outs.
Evidently you think Georgia would have won had they been properly coached. My belief is that sometimes a properly coached team loses because the players play poorly. The team with the best coach and the best players does not win every game. Georgia had their hats handed to them.

i agree Georgia was out coached.
 

Tenntiderman

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I think Kirby is missing some cogs from his 2017 machine and has not exactly replaced them. Kinda like Bama on Defense this year. He may not ever outwork his old Boss. Most Dawg fans took ownership of #1 recuiting classes last year...but guess what? Bama is still up there. So Kirby will get his wins, and will I think win a NC or two. Whether he can do it the way CNS has remains to be seen, but he knows what it will take. Ga is loaded and he should be able to get it done before too long. But I hear folks talking about QBs and being overrated and this or that...but Kirby is a great recruiter and will one day soon coach his way to the big Enchilada. Hope it isn't 2018 tho. Or 2019. Was kinda hoping we could harelip the haters with a 3 peat.
 

Ole Man Dan

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To be fair... When Coach Saban came to Alabama, we got the finished product.
Coach Saban worked with some of the best Defensive minds in football.
Coach Saban thru trial and error used and refined their techniques.
Coach Kirby Smart worked for Coach Saban a number of years. It is evident that Coach Smart has adopted many things that Coach Saban does.

If Coach Smart keeps at it and continues to polish his techniques, he will be one of the next generation of top coaches. Maybe the top coach.
Will he be better than Coach Saban? Debatable.
By that time Coach Saban may be retired.

Generally speaking today's top coaches worked for successful coaches.
The next generation of top coaches will also have worked for top coaches.
 

dtgreg

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i think that shows that it's very, very, very rare.

how long did it take for the "next Paul Bryant"...more than a quarter century?

anyone over 50 today very well may not live long enough to see the "next Nick Saban"...if that ever even happens.

i doubt we'll ever see the "next John Wooden" either...and how long has it been since he retired...45 years?
Rockne - Thomas - Bryant - Stallings? - Dabo?
 

Bryant0086

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I am far from an Alabama apologist, but that game was much more about Utah being absolutely in the zone as opposed to Alabama playing particularly poorly. They would have beat any team on that day. If I am not mistaken, their former Utes QB Brian Johnson, that slayed Bama, not only sang for AC/DC (joking..... same name,) but is an offensive assistant at Florida and was the MSU QB coach from 14-15

Yet we came back and made that a game. I mean that's the one game you can point to and say we were really outclassed, yet it was a 21-17 game in the 3rd quarter.

I don't remember the last Alabama game that felt like this past weekend's Georgia/LSU game felt; where the other team beat on us and beat on us and we never really got back up off the mat.
 

selmaborntidefan

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This is a tendency I will never understand (no disrespect intended toward the OP or anyone) - our "big hurry" to move onto figuring out who is "the next big thing." This happens in the most popular NS subject, and it happens here as well.

Everything has to be viewed in the context of both "near and far history." Let me give a few examples of what I'm talking about both team-wise and individually.

The Montreal Canadiens have won 24 Stanley Cups, the NHL/hockey championship. The next closest is Toronto at 13. But viewed in the context of the history of the sport, Montreal's championships aren't nearly so impressive. Prior to 1967 there were only SIX teams in the NHL. It just isn't all that difficult to compile huge numbers against only five other teams. It's no accident that Toronto hasn't won the Cup since the NHL added teams. They won a bunch when 2 of the 6 teams wound up in the finals against each other. They've haven't won jack squat since.

The same can be said of all those Boston Celtics titles of the Bill Russell era. Boston racked up a bunch of titles back when the NBA had between 8 and 12 (and finally 14 teams). The moment the NBA expanded to 17 teams, Boston's perpetual dynasty became much less impressive.

And the NY Yankees of 1921 to 1964 (technically 1923-1962) won the World Series TWENTY times in about 40 years. There were 16 teams, the Yankees were by far the richest of the bunch (meaning they could go buy someone from a poorer team like their major league farm team, the Kansas City Athletics), there was no national baseball draft, no free agency, and the minor leagues were not as organized as they became. It's no accident that the Yankees were in the World Series every single year 1960-64.....and the moment baseball got a common draft (1965) their dynasty imploded. (Yes, there were other causes but the lack of cornering all the talent was a big contributor).


Now....I'm not disparaging ANY of these teams. After all, the dynasty "could" have been, say, the Detroit Red Wings or the Chicago Cubs. But you have to view them in the context of their history and what reality was at the time as well as what it is now. The passing statistics of MOST NFL quarterbacks pre-1978 are not really all that impressive if you compare them to now. In 1967, Joe Namath passed for an AFL record 4,007 yards. The era in which he did this makes this a truly phenomenal accomplishment. They played 14 games, you could hit receivers anywhere on the field, and only three AFL teams - Jets, Chargers, Raiders - topped 3,000 yards passing. Last year, 22 NFL quarterbacks topped 3,000 yards passing - but this doesn't mean that there are 22 QBs in the NFL right now better than 1967 Joe Namath. IN CONTEXT, Namath's 4,007 yards passing is probably more impressive than Dan Marino's 1984 NFL record yardage.

IN CONTEXT, the San Francisco Giants winning 3 World Series in five years (2010-12-14) is more impressive than the Yankees winning five in a row (1949-53).

IN CONTEXT - and this is borderline sacrilege - Bill Belichick is a better NFL coach than Vince Lombardi. He won five titles in an era of much greater parity and only one guy has been there for all the titles. Lombardi's first title was before the AFL even existed, and his dynasty was mostly the same throughout and in a compressed period of time, something more akin to Chuck Noll's Steelers dynasty.


And IN CONTEXT, what Alabama has accomplished in college football is likely the greatest major sports dynasty we've ever had. Coach Bryant won six national championships, but in only ONE of those years (1978) did he actually have to square off against "the other team" in what was basically a "championship game." The titles of 1961, 1964, and 1973 were all determined before any bowl game, the 1965 title was won in a 3 vs 4 matchup, and the 1979 title did NOT feature Alabama vs Ohio State. NONE of this is Bryant's fault nor should it be taken as a criticism of him in any way - it's just the context of the time. Saban has had to square off against a major foe in what amounted to a "winner take all" game for all six of his national championships, the only possible bruise on the resume being that he didn't face USC in 2003 - and that, too, isn't Saban's fault.


And all of that leads me to the discussion of Kirby Smart, which follows in the next post (for easier reading).
 

selmaborntidefan

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I think - respectfully - a number of the assessments here are a tad bit misguided.

Kirby Smart has coached for 35 college games at the highest level in the toughest conference and has a record of 27-8. He did this with NO prior head coaching experience anywhere. He won an SEC title in his second year and played for a national championship in a highly competitive era. He got this job at forty years old.

How did other coaches start their careers?

Coach Bryant was 23-11-1 in his first 35 games and finished no higher than fifth in the conference. He began coaching at 32. If you start with Bryant at age forty (1953), his first 35 games resulted in an overall record of 19-13-3, nine of those losses coming in the year he decimated his large squad into a small one at Junction. He had no real blowout losses at the start of his career, although he had a 41-9 massacre at the hands of Texas Tech in his ATM debut.

Coach Saban began at Michigan St (I don't consider Toledo overly relevant to this discussion) at age 43. His first 35 games yielded a record of 19-15-1. He had a 40-point blowout loss to Nebraska in his debut, a 31-point loss to Wisconsin, a 41-point blowout to Nebraska, a 38-point wipeout to Stanford (1996) and in his 36th game a four TD loss to Washington in the Aloha Bowl.


Just a cursory look at how some guys began their careers is quite favorable for Kirby Smart's ascent to "legend." Of course - as I keep saying - context is everything. Kirby took over a 10-3 football team from a coach who had been there for 15 years and established a solid foundation. Bryant took over a Maryland team that was 1-7-1 in 1944, a Kentucky team that was 5-14 in the previous two years, and a 4-5-1 Aggies team that hadn't had a real good season (by their standards) since 1950. Saban took over a 5-6 Sparty team that got socked with a major probation right after he arrived while playing in a rather competitive conference.

I would also point out that when we're talking Bryant and Saban, we are talking about a "once in every few generations" talent, not "best who is out there right now." Kirby Smart is NOT going to become the next guy to win six national championships. He's not going to win five or even four national titles. (And in case Tim Brando is scouring this site, neither is Scott Frost).

However......could Smart win one or maybe two? Absolutely. He's not going to be the next Bryant or Saban. If you were to ask me my opinion at this time, I think Smart will have a long and successful career at Georgia somewhere along the lines of a Vince Dooley, Mack Brown, Lou Holtz, or Don James - a guy who is by no means a legend but is a solid, winning football coach with a constantly contending team.


==============================================

Of course, Smart might also be the next Gene Chizik, too. This one is eerie.


Gene Chizik was 27-8 after 35 games. Just like Kirby Smart.
Gene Chizik was 8-5 in his first year. Just like Kirby Smart.
Gene Chizik won a close bowl game to finish his first year. Just like Kirby Smart.
Gene Chizik won the SEC title game in his second year. Just like Kirby Smart.
Gene Chizik played for the national title in his second year and hit a late field goal for a three-point lead in the game. Just like Kirby Smart. (Yeah, I know Gene won his).
Gene Chizik got blown out by LSU by double digits in Baton Rouge in his 35th game. Just like Kirby Smart.
 

81usaf92

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I think the disconnect in this argument is understanding my issue with “Kirby is more than just another disciple”. My point is that so many commentators and fans from both schools (UGA and UA) have jumped on to the train of it’s a fact that Kirby will be the death of the dynasty, Kirby will be the next dynasty in the SEC, Kirby is going to be the one to break the undertaker’s streak, yadda yadda yadda. My point is that it maybe an overreaction because Kirby has shown through 3 years that he is a great recruiter but not a good game coach.

My point is that before this season it seems everyone was so sure Kirby was going to be a dominant force in the SEC, and one that rivaled Alabama in every way imaginable. But it’s beginning to look like Mullen and Stoops aren’t that far behind ,if at all, with lesser talent.
 

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