Saban Meets with Media in Birmingham 10/22; Mentions Jalen Injury

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

The problem with an RPO is that the offensive line does not know what whether it will be pass or run on any given play. On pure run plays, the offensive linemen fire off of the LOS. It is much easier to block effectively for a pure run play than it is to block effectively for a rush on an RPO play. It is also much easier to block effectively for a pure pass play than it is to pass block for an RPO pass play.

You have the athletes to just line up and beat them. The RPO is for teams that need to trick the opponent. It actually hurts teams as powerful as Alabama, IMO.

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Insightful comment. To add to the conversation I was just scanning Ben Litvin's Twitter feed and he comments:

I think one of the big x-factors in Alabama/LSU is whether Alabama feels comfortable running the QB. If they don’t, then it’s realistic—though hardly guaranteed—to think that LSU can really contain the Alabama running game. That alone *might* keep the game competitive.

This would allow LSU to at least reduce the game to a handful of individual matchups ... always the primary goal for an underdog. However, if Alabama does feel comfortable running the QB then it’s hard to see how LSU can even begin to dictate Alabama’s offensive approach.

I take a different tact in thinking about the New England Patriots where the QB is very accurate and how they use the tight end and their running backs isolated on LB or corner and practically never run the QB.

Alabama has all of the tools in Jacobs and Irv Smith along with the receiving group to attack underneath to control the ball and force one on one match ups on the outside.

As you said IPO's, particularly with QB's with knee and ankle issues, tend to limit run blocking effectiveness and don't appear to a positive in the passing game.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

RTR91 said:

But with Tua, the RPO is usually a quick slant. He doesn't look to run off the RPO like some QBs.

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That play will stay, but it can be run just as easily as just a fake hand-off. It would look like an RPO, but be a designed pass play all the way.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

I'm a bit confused by who is arguing what here but we aren't taking RPOs out of the playbook. We'll use them against LSU. Why would you not?

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

One more note - most of your fake hand-offs with Tua are designed that way now. You ran a lot more RPOs early in the season. Now you are just lining up and beating teams. Yeah, a ton of fakes, but a fake is not necessarily an RPO.

Why fewer RPOs? Because teams were/are run blitzing the heck out of you and they were getting through when the o-line was blocking for an RPO. They were not getting through when you were running straight pass plays.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

RollTide_HTTR said:

I'm a bit confused by who is arguing what here but we aren't taking RPOs out of the playbook. We'll use them against LSU. Why would you not?

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Read the posts and the why is answered. Why do NFL teams not run RPOs much? Because they are not as effective as just running fakes.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

RTR91 said:

That's the extension that was added. Take a few days to fully form.

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Maybe it's a kicking foot!

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

The problem with an RPO is that the offensive line does not know what whether it will be pass or run on any given play. On pure run plays, the offensive linemen fire off of the LOS. It is much easier to block effectively for a pure run play than it is to block effectively for a rush on an RPO play. It is also much easier to block effectively for a pure pass play than it is to pass block for an RPO pass play.

You have the athletes to just line up and beat them. The RPO is for teams that need to trick the opponent. It actually hurts teams as powerful as Alabama, IMO.

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On RPOs, the line is usually run blocking, that’s why the ball has to come out quick. I know what you are saying, but Nick knows the pressure that a properly executed RPO puts on a defense. Thats how Ole Miss beat Bama Twice. That’s why he incorporated it in his offense. No reason to dial it back, just pick your spots and take out the QB run option. Things that bothers Nick’s defense, like RPOs, like HUNH, like spread teams, are concepts used against Nick with success, so in turn Nick tasks his OC to incorporate those concepts.
Sometimes, I like what I see with Kirby Smart. It’s the Nick Saban philosophy circa 2012. Run game, play action passing and good defense with great athletes, but at the same time you have to roll with the rules changes and tailor your offense and defense to take advantage of those changes.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

Read the posts and the why is answered. Why do NFL teams not run RPOs much? Because they are not as effective as just running fakes.

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The main reason it’s not as effective in the NFL is the 1 yard rule vs 3 yard rule for offensive linemen blocking downfield. The RPO has spread through the league, Philly just rode it to the Super Bowl. It’s one reason why Brady said the NFL is glorified college football

BTW, I’m not trying to spar with you, just a little friendly banter

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

Read the posts and the why is answered. Why do NFL teams not run RPOs much? Because they are not as effective as just running fakes.

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I mean it can't be all you do in the NFL but some of the best offenses in the NFL use RPOs. Heck Philly won a super bowl using them. But this also isn't the NFL. RPOs are even more effective in college. Idk, I get wanting to see more diversity in the offense but RPOs shouldn't go away IMO.

JustNeedMe81 said:

I think they include RPO because it in a way keep the defense from overcommitting to run game. I think we will see that in LSU game... Now, Jalen will play.. but is this the right game to reveal the expanded package for Tua/Jalen in the game? Probably not, but we might see it anyway.

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The RPO without the threat of the QB run is still effective in sucking in the LB and opening the quick hit to the tight end or WR slant.


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Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

One more note - most of your fake hand-offs with Tua are designed that way now. You ran a lot more RPOs early in the season. Now you are just lining up and beating teams. Yeah, a ton of fakes, but a fake is not necessarily an RPO.

Why fewer RPOs? Because teams were/are run blitzing the heck out of you and they were getting through when the o-line was blocking for an RPO. They were not getting through when you were running straight pass plays.

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It appears to me that both Tua and Jalen have struggled with the mesh point. Even at Tennessee Tua and Jacobs ran together at the hand off. The play worked at UT it won't against better defenses. If we look at how quick triple option teams run their offense it demonstrates how much work there is for a QB to be proficient with their reads. As was stated earlier it appears to have significantly slowed the running game.

Tua has been very good with pulling the ball and making a quick throw on the slant receiver but I am not at all certain that this is not off play action vs. RPO.

Regardless the teams intent is to be as effective in given situations as they can possibly be and we can say that Locksley has definitely taken the training wheels off the offense.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

UAH said:

It appears to me that both Tua and Jalen have struggled with the mesh point. Even at Tennessee Tua and Jacobs ran together at the hand off. The play worked at UT it won't against better defenses. If we look at how quick triple option teams run their offense it demonstrates how much work there is for a QB to be proficient with their reads. As was stated earlier it appears to have significantly slowed the running game.

Tua has been very good with pulling the ball and making a quick throw on the slant receiver but I am not at all certain that this is not off play action vs. RPO.

Regardless the teams intent is to be as effective in given situations as they can possibly be and we can say that Locksley has definitely taken the training wheels off the offense.

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Yep, and I bet this two week interval will be intensive focus on the types of plays that throws LSU for a loop

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

I know that the RPO can work. Maybe what I am asking for is the NFL's version of an RPO rather than the college version. Fewer vertical plays off of it because they take too long to develop and leave Tua exposed - and no more QB runs with Tua as an option (only when he sees a lane too big to ignore).

It's worth noting that Texas A&M has the #4 rush defense in the county (81 YPG) and LSU has the 33rd (130 YPG). LSU is 37th in passing yards allowed (199 YPG). Good to Very Good defense, but their defense hasn't been otherworldly by any means.

Their biggest games have been against some of the most abysmal passing teams in football - UGA 64th, AU 85th, Miami 89th, Florida 90th, and MSU 110th.
Honestly, based on that, I was surprised to their defensive numbers weren't better than they are.

Stats obviously aren't everything, but they ain't seen anything like they'll see next weekend. I think we've seen a comparable level defense as theirs, and we passed our test.
Let's see if they are ready to face the #1 offense in college football.

Re: Jalen Hurts has ankle surgery.

B1GTide said:

I know that the RPO can work. Maybe what I am asking for is the NFL's version of an RPO rather than the college version. Fewer vertical plays off of it because they take too long to develop and leave Tua exposed - and no more QB runs with Tua as an option (only when he sees a lane too big to ignore).

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More or less the modern day play action pass...

I've had several of those minor fixes. The pain is still real.

FWIW: Jalen is a competitor. He may be somewhat limited, but he will give his all. We can't ask for more...

FWIW: Tus is a competitor. He may be somewhat limited, but he will give his all. Again, you can ask for anything more.

To underestimate either QB would be a serious mistake.

This year we have an Offense that can win with either QB, but we are better
when we use both QBs.

I'm pretty sure LSU is the best team we have faced this year.
LSU is also the most physical team on our schedule.

BUT... We have the best coached, and disciplined players.

This could be the game we play 60 minutes. I would love to see us keep the pedal to the floor, when we play LDU. MSU, and Auburn.

gman4tide said:

Maybe that's why you let Mac throw the ball a few times, even when you're curb stomping the team your good buddy is coaching?

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THIS!!!!!


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