Indonesia plane crash: All 189 passengers presumed dead in latest aviation disaster (Oct 2018)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bazza

TideFans Legend
Oct 1, 2011
35,743
21,457
187
New Smyrna Beach, Florida
https://news.sky.com/story/indonesi...med-dead-in-latest-aviation-disaster-11539107

All 189 people on board a passenger jet that crashed into the sea off Indonesia are presumed dead in what is set to become one of the worst aviation disasters in the country's history.

The Lion Air flight between Jakarta and an island off Sumatra went down on Monday morning, with the passenger jet having lost contact just 13 minutes after take-off.
Indonesian search and rescue officials have recovered body parts from the scene of the crash, in addition to ID cards, bags, mangled mobile phones and other belongings.
They have also retrieved pieces of the aircraft, although the main body of the plane has not yet been found and they are not expecting any of those on board to have survived.

Operation director Bambang Suryo Aji told reporters: "My prediction is that nobody survived because the victims that we found, their bodies were no longer intact. And it's been hours, so it is likely 189 people have died."
:(
 

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,611
10,695
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
JAKARTA, Indonesia — The "black box" data recorder from a crashed Lion Air jet shows its last four flights all had an airspeed indicator problem, investigators said Monday, after distraught relatives of victims confronted the airline's co-founder at a meeting organized by officials.
National Transportation Safety Committee chairman Soerjanto Tjahjono said the problem was similar on each of the four flights, including the fatal flight on Oct. 29 in which the plane plunged into the Java Sea minutes after takeoff from Jakarta, killing all 189 people on board.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...n-last-4-flights/ar-BBPm3kX?OCID=ansmsnnews11
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,447
13,272
287
Hooterville, Vir.
With no reliable indication of airspeed, it's extremely easy to end up in a stall. That's what caused this disaster.
I saw a NatGeo documentary on that one and, if I recall, there was ice on the pito tubes (sp?) because of superclean air* over the Atlantic and the difference between an air speed that is too high (tearing the plane apart) and too low (stalling) was surprisingly narrow.

I did not know that you could have liquid water below 0 degree C, but if the water is superclean, it sometimes cannot form the ice matrix at 0 C.
 

AUDub

Hall of Fame
Dec 4, 2013
16,284
5,963
187
Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
I saw a NatGeo documentary on that one and, if I recall, there was ice on the pito tubes (sp?) because of superclean air* over the Atlantic and the difference between an air speed that is too high (tearing the plane apart) and too low (stalling) was surprisingly narrow.


I did not know that you could have liquid water below 0 degree C, but if the water is superclean, it sometimes cannot form the ice matrix at 0 C.
Supercooled is the word you are looking for. If you've ever encountered freezing rain, you've encountered supercooled water. And this is an extremely common problem in aviation. "Icing conditions." If you fly through or around thunderstorms like the Air France flight did, you will encounter supercooled water.

Aircraft equipment is often designed with minimization of icing in mind. For pitot tubes, this means designs that minimize water ingress or have some sort of heating mechanism, for example.

There was an issue with the pitot tubes used on the Air France A330 fleet at the time of the accident. This Airworthiness Directive, dictating replacement of the particular model of pitot tube involved in the Air France crash, was issued after the accident.
 
Last edited:

NationalTitles18

TideFans Legend
May 25, 2003
29,828
35,121
362
Mountainous Northern California
Wow.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/...VJygEx8nJipQsLwie1xkti2qDAMO3NaRY7msDFB-hD-H4

The F.A.A. would also determine what kind of training would be required for pilots on specific design changes to the Max compared with the previous version. Some changes would require training short of simulator time, such as computer-based instruction.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“I would think this is one of those systems that the pilots should know it’s onboard and when it’s activated,” said Chuck Horning, the department chairman for aviation maintenance science at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

[/FONT]

That was not the choice that Boeing — or regulators — would make.
 

Bamaro

TideFans Legend
Oct 19, 2001
26,611
10,695
287
Jacksonville, Md USA
FYI, the Smithsonian Channel has a very good series called Air Disasters where they take a crash or serious incident and show the investigation into determining the cause.
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,642
12,564
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
Indonesia has a terrible record and has been banned from flying to many countries.
It is reported that the black boxes have been located.
I once flew Garuda Indonesia, the Airline of Indonesia to Bali and back from Singapore. Great trip but I was terrified the entire way there and back
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,447
13,272
287
Hooterville, Vir.
I once flew Garuda Indonesia, the Airline of Indonesia to Bali and back from Singapore. Great trip but I was terrified the entire way there and back
I can't imagine why.

When I was returning home from Egypt, the UN wanted me to fly Moroccan Air (cheapest ticket), and was surprised when I declined that ticket in favor of a more reputable airline.
 

Jon

Hall of Fame
Feb 22, 2002
15,642
12,564
282
Atlanta 'Burbs
I can't imagine why.

When I was returning home from Egypt, the UN wanted me to fly Moroccan Air (cheapest ticket), and was surprised when I declined that ticket in favor of a more reputable airline.
I took a flight to Bangkok one time on a 2nd tier indian airline to save $$$ (I was 19) I can't even recall the name of that one but do recall that the chicken tandori I was served wasn't terrible for airline food. But yeah I'd have noped out of Moroccan Air too
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,597
39,812
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
I can't imagine why.

When I was returning home from Egypt, the UN wanted me to fly Moroccan Air (cheapest ticket), and was surprised when I declined that ticket in favor of a more reputable airline.
This is more about a scary trip than a scary flight. For several years, my daughter was living in Stuttgart and working two weeks out of every month in Abu Dhabi, and, as a result, had umpteen miles built up on Emirates. Her company lost the contract and she could see her use of the miles coming to the end, so she booked a flight to Katmandu as a lark. It was more a nightmare. She is small, blond and attractive. There were several incidents where men tried to hook up and get her to accompany them. The hotel was rated as a four star but was bizarre in a number of ways. She later said that her first thought on touching back down in Germany was "What have I done?" Some corners of the world, particularly the 3rd one, are still not safe - and their airlines aren't either...
 

Tidewater

Hall of Fame
Mar 15, 2003
22,447
13,272
287
Hooterville, Vir.
This is more about a scary trip than a scary flight. For several years, my daughter was living in Stuttgart and working two weeks out of every month in Abu Dhabi, and, as a result, had umpteen miles built up on Emirates. Her company lost the contract and she could see her use of the miles coming to the end, so she booked a flight to Katmandu as a lark. It was more a nightmare. She is small, blond and attractive. There were several incidents where men tried to hook up and get her to accompany them. The hotel was rated as a four star but was bizarre in a number of ways. She later said that her first thought on touching back down in Germany was "What have I done?" Some corners of the world, particularly the 3rd one, are still not safe - and their airlines aren't either...
Yeah, but it was a good deal, right?
 

cbi1972

Hall of Fame
Nov 8, 2005
18,144
1,301
182
51
Birmingham, AL
Supercooled is the word you are looking for. If you've ever encountered freezing rain, you've encountered supercooled water. And this is an extremely common problem in aviation. "Icing conditions." If you fly through or around thunderstorms like the Air France flight did, you will encounter supercooled water.

Aircraft equipment is often designed with minimization of icing in mind. For pitot tubes, this means designs that minimize water ingress or have some sort of heating mechanism, for example.

There was an issue with the pitot tubes used on the Air France A330 fleet at the time of the accident. This Airworthiness Directive, dictating replacement of the particular model of pitot tube involved in the Air France crash, was issued after the accident.
Arizona State is developing a wing skin that dispenses antifreeze like the glands of a poison dart frog

When the outer layer fails, for example because of condensate or frost accumulation, the inner layer releases antifreeze to prevent ice sheet formation. As a result, the bi-layer "skin" can delay freezing rain accumulation 60 times longer than a superhydrophobic coating alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Con

day-day

Hall of Fame
Jan 2, 2005
10,036
1,801
187
Bartlett, TN (Memphis area)

NationalTitles18

TideFans Legend
May 25, 2003
29,828
35,121
362
Mountainous Northern California
TKS systems (weeping wings) are used on some smaller aircraft, including the C208, to provide de/anti-ice protection on the leading edges of the wings.

The wing skin system studied at Arizona State is interesting. Looks like it would be a cost and maintenance nightmare for big jets.
TKS systems buy you time and that’s it. Best to avoid icing conditions when possible. The big problem with them: 1. Weight cuts into useful load. 2. If you don’t respect the limitations you are asking for trouble.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Posts

Latest threads

TideFans.shop - NEW Stuff!

TideFans.shop - Get YOUR Bama Gear HERE!”></a>
<br />

<!--/ END TideFans.shop & item link \-->
<p style= Purchases made through our TideFans.shop and Amazon.com links may result in a commission being paid to TideFans.