How to Fix Our Democracy

twofbyc

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Oct 14, 2009
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You left out President Obama. "If you like your plan you can keep your plan."
If the insurance company would let you and if the plan met the criteria of the ACA, he was actually correct.
He could not in any way shape or form prevent insurance companies from cancelling anyone’s policy.
He didn’t include this information in his comment. His fault.


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Bodhisattva

Hall of Fame
Aug 22, 2001
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IMO the best way to limit the influence of lobbyists and their money is to limit the size of government to its constitutional levels. If I and my allies have interest in widgets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, we'll surely spend millions influence government to act a certain way. The Constitution needs to be taken seriously and not applied selectively. More than likely, the federal government is supposed to have no role with widgets. Goodbye government intervention, bureaucratic cost and waste, the corresponding taxation, and the influence of uberwealthy lobbyists. K Street would become a ghost town.
 

twofbyc

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Oct 14, 2009
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I was able to keep my plan in name only. The name of the plan is the same, but it is a way worse plan. This year it was so bad the company did not renew and we changed providers and it is worse than last years, but cheaper for the company.
Before ACA, my insurance premiums went up, copays increased and coverages went down every single year from 2001 - 2010. Every. single. year.
Congress could have fixed the ACA (public option being left out was a huge mistake). Instead, the House voted hundreds of times to repeal ACA, instead of fixing it.
It was never intended to be the “final version”, but Republicans freaked people out and never intended to even attempt to fix it. More partisanship at the expense of the American people.


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Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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IMO the best way to limit the influence of lobbyists and their money is to limit the size of government to its constitutional levels. If I and my allies have interest in widgets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, we'll surely spend millions influence government to act a certain way. The Constitution needs to be taken seriously and not applied selectively. More than likely, the federal government is supposed to have no role with widgets. Goodbye government intervention, bureaucratic cost and waste, the corresponding taxation, and the influence of uberwealthy lobbyists. K Street would become a ghost town.
Now that's crazy talk.
I am reminded of Renee Zellwigger's character in Cold Mountain.


"They make the weather and then they stand in the rain and shout [crap] it's raining!"
 

CharminTide

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Oct 23, 2005
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A substantive part of the deal they struck was that small states would get the same representation in the senate as the large states. In exchange for this, high population states would get a much larger representation in the lower house. Invalid that provision and ethically, you invalidate the entire deal.
And I think this model is fine. The issue is that the House is no longer proportional, and therefore no longer serves its intended purpose.

I never said I would force Maryland to accept the retrocession. The people of Alexandria petitioned Congress and the General Assembly to retrocede that portion of the District south of the Potomac. All parties agreed. If the people of DC want their representation in Congress, the people of Alexandria set the precedent: retrocession. I think Maryland would be happy to have that property back.
I'm still unclear why you oppose giving the citizens who reside in the district the choice whether they be governed by themselves or by a neighboring state. But I think we've run this hypothetical sufficiently into the ground.
 

Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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And I think this model is fine. The issue is that the House is no longer proportional, and therefore no longer serves its intended purpose.
We are never going to get an exact proportion. The question seems to be how much disproportionality is acceptable and how painful would it be to fix that disproportionality. 10,000 members of the lower house seems to be a cure worse than the disease.
I'm still unclear why you oppose giving the citizens who reside in the district the choice whether they be governed by themselves or by a neighboring state. But I think we've run this hypothetical sufficiently into the ground.
I guess I value precedent.
I heard someone describe the difference between a progressive and a conservative this way. A progressive sees a fence and wants to tear it down. A conservative asks why the fence was put up in the first place.
 

CharminTide

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Oct 23, 2005
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We are never going to get an exact proportion. The question seems to be how much disproportionality is acceptable and how painful would it be to fix that disproportionality. 10,000 members of the lower house seems to be a cure worse than the disease.
Fair enough point. I’d argue we’re wel past the point of unacceptable disproportionality. When both the House and Senate grant significantly exaggerated power to rural states, the system has ceased to function as intended and as agreed to at its inception. Maybe Madison’s amendment is the best compromise between fair population representation and chamber functionality. But since that almost certainly won’t be ratified by enough states to become law, the realistic options are either a wildly unbalanced Congress in both Houses or a balanced House that needs more chairs. I’ll take the system as designed over a broken government.

You’ll disagree on that, but it seems like we both agree that the House should be rebalanced in some fashion to reflect the population shifts that have happened over the last century.
 

MattinBama

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Jul 31, 2007
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IMO the best way to limit the influence of lobbyists and their money is to limit the size of government to its constitutional levels. If I and my allies have interest in widgets worth hundreds of millions of dollars, we'll surely spend millions influence government to act a certain way. The Constitution needs to be taken seriously and not applied selectively. More than likely, the federal government is supposed to have no role with widgets. Goodbye government intervention, bureaucratic cost and waste, the corresponding taxation, and the influence of uberwealthy lobbyists. K Street would become a ghost town.
However if the creation of those widgets produces a toxin that destroys the water table for 100 miles around the widget plant or causes children to be born with 3 heads then the government is just about the only entity that can theoretically hold the creator of those widgets responsible and help make sure other widget producers aren't destroying other things. Yes there are lawsuits but when you're talking about huge corporations they have mostly proven to be a non-deterrent.

The Constitution was written in a world without things that could so easily have global consequences.

I'm perfectly good with limits to government intervention and rolling back a lot of it, but to say that all government intervention should be done away with because it's not in the Constitution is attempting to live in a past that no longer exists in a modern world.
 

Tidewater

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Mar 15, 2003
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Fair enough point. I’d argue we’re wel past the point of unacceptable disproportionality. When both the House and Senate grant significantly exaggerated power to rural states, the system has ceased to function as intended and as agreed to at its inception. Maybe Madison’s amendment is the best compromise between fair population representation and chamber functionality. But since that almost certainly won’t be ratified by enough states to become law, the realistic options are either a wildly unbalanced Congress in both Houses or a balanced House that needs more chairs. I’ll take the system as designed over a broken government.

You’ll disagree on that, but it seems like we both agree that the House should be rebalanced in some fashion to reflect the population shifts that have happened over the last century.
I think you are getting carried away with the progressive propaganda on this. The House gets rebalanced every ten years to reflect population shifts. The Senate is the house that is unbalanced. The House is the house that is proportional. That is why California gets 54 seats and Montana gets 1.
I did see this about the Wyoming Rule (a proposal to increase the size of the United States House of Representatives so that the standard representative-to-population ratio would be that of the smallest entitled unit, which is currently Wyoming.)
This rule would increase the size of the House to 545, which is not crazy. Current-day California picks up 13 seats under this rule. Even under this rule, imbalances are inevitable:
The most glaring example is Montana, which, according to the 2010 Census, had a population of 989,417 with one representative, compared to Rhode Island's 1,052,931 residents with two. This makes a Rhode Islander's vote worth 88% more than a vote from a Montanan
And, under any system, imbalances between representation and policy outcomes are unavoidable. Let's say the Democrats run on a policy of increasing taxes and Republicans run on a policy of decreasing taxes. If, in every race in the country Democrats win every election by a narrow margin, say for the sake of argument, by one vote in each race. No matter how you apportion seats, the "50% - 1" party get no representation at all. How fair is that?
 
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Bodhisattva

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Aug 22, 2001
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However if the creation of those widgets produces a toxin that destroys the water table for 100 miles around the widget plant or causes children to be born with 3 heads then the government is just about the only entity that can theoretically hold the creator of those widgets responsible and help make sure other widget producers aren't destroying other things. Yes there are lawsuits but when you're talking about huge corporations they have mostly proven to be a non-deterrent.

The Constitution was written in a world without things that could so easily have global consequences.

I'm perfectly good with limits to government intervention and rolling back a lot of it, but to say that all government intervention should be done away with because it's not in the Constitution is attempting to live in a past that no longer exists in a modern world.
If an expanded government role is the best way to go, then so be it .... via constitutional amendment.
 

AlexanderFan

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Jul 23, 2004
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If an expanded government role is the best way to go, then so be it .... via constitutional amendment.
You're trying to put people out of business. If you get elected on this platform you better wear Kevlar and have a food tester.


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Bodhisattva

Hall of Fame
Aug 22, 2001
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Now that's crazy talk.
I am reminded of Renee Zellwigger's character in Cold Mountain.


"They make the weather and then they stand in the rain and shout [crap] it's raining!"
I prefer a cruder analogy ... They create a massive pile of crap then complain about the smell and green bottle flies. When pressed for a solution, instead of reducing the pile of crap, they say they'll make crap that smells good and repels the flies.
 

bama_wayne1

All-American
Jun 15, 2007
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If the insurance company would let you and if the plan met the criteria of the ACA, he was actually correct.
He could not in any way shape or form prevent insurance companies from cancelling anyone’s policy.
He didn’t include this information in his comment. His fault.


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He actually said that your major medical catastrophic plan would be grandfathered in. It was not. So no he was not factually correct.
 

CharminTide

Hall of Fame
Oct 23, 2005
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I think you are getting carried away with the progressive propaganda on this. The House gets rebalanced every ten years to reflect population shifts. The Senate is the house that is unbalanced. The House is the house that is proportional. That is why California gets 54 seats and Montana gets 1.
The House gets re-balanced under strict guidelines, and the result is that a citizen in Wyoming has approximately twice the voting power (in the House) as one from, say, Delaware. That said, I've seen the Wyoming Rule and think that would be a reasonable compromise.

One could argue that the bigger issue with the House distribution relates to the EC, which is of course even more absurdly tilted toward rural areas. The average number of citizens per elector in Wyoming is ~190,000. In California it's ~680,000. I suppose the broader issue I see is that the rural voting advantage in literally every branch of government is likely to be untenable with the growing urban/rural divide. Re-balancing the House through a compromise such as the Wyoming Rule would not eliminate the systemic rural advantage, but it would help bring us closer to a fair system. IMO, that's a positive step.

If, in every race in the country Democrats win every election by a narrow margin, say for the sake of argument, by one vote in each race. No matter how you apportion seats, the "50% - 1" party get no representation at all. How fair is that?
Well, the advantages of proportional representation is an entirely different conversation.
 

92tide

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May 9, 2000
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He actually said that your major medical catastrophic plan would be grandfathered in. It was not. So no he was not factually correct.
in general, catastrophic and other plans were able to be grandfathered in

Grandfathered Health Plan
An individual health insurance policy purchased on or before March 23, 2010. These plans weren’t sold through the Marketplace, but by insurance companies, agents, or brokers. They may not include some rights and protections provided under the Affordable Care Act.

Plans may lose “grandfathered” status if they make certain significant changes that reduce benefits or increase costs to consumers. A health plan must disclose whether it considers itself a grandfathered plan. (Note: If you’re in a group health plan, the date you joined may not reflect the date the plan was created. New employees and family members may be added to existing grandfathered group plans after March 23, 2010).
 

hollisx4

1st Team
Aug 29, 2005
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I am not sure what you mean by "lobbyist."
If I go to DC and ask my Representative to appropriate money for battlefield preservation, am I lobbying? If I give him a $10 re-election campaign contribution, is that lobbying?
If I go to any other Representative in support of the same issue, would that be lobbying?
In my simple mind, the scenario's you mention don't sound like you are a lobbyist at all. You are simply a constituent reaching out to one's duly elected representatives to do what they've been elected to do. Reflect the interests of their constituents.
And to me a lobbyist is a person who makes their living by taking money to influence policy makers to benefit the highest bidder, regardless of how it might affect anyone.

At least that's the way I see it.
 

Bamaro

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Oct 19, 2001
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It would be fairly easy to write a quick program that used GIS info and Census data to create voting districts impartially nationwide. It will never happen but gerrymandering is a simple problem to solve
Yup. And just like justice is suppose to be blind, redistricting should be also. Race, gender, political party, religion, ethnicity etc. should have very little to no effect on redistricting.
 

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