mass shooting at california dance bar - 12 dead

twofbyc

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That would be helpful but everyone would not be in agreement.:(
Said this before: no one under the age of 21 should be allowed to buy anything but a shotgun or “hunting” rifle (don’t get me started on the morons who claim they hunt non-humans with assault weapons).
No pistol and no assault rifle - too much opportunity for immaturity to rear its ugly head and result in multiple deaths of innocents.
This won’t solve the problem; not sure anything can completely solve it. But it will help.


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CharminTide

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That would be helpful but everyone would not be in agreement.:(
Yeah, we've been here before. Undoubtedly someone will claim that they're more comfortable with mass shootings every week than with the gubment having mentally unstable people on a list. Lists are nonstarters for the reactionaries. The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of innocents, constant danger is a worthy price for absolute freedom, or something like that.
 

Jon

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Yeah, we've been here before. Undoubtedly someone will claim that they're more comfortable with mass shootings every week than with the gubment having mentally unstable people on a list. Lists are nonstarters for the reactionaries. The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of innocents, constant danger is a worthy price for absolute freedom, or something like that.
listen to this Mom, her son survived Vegas but not the Thousand Oaks shooting
https://abc7news.com/amp/her-son-su...usand-oaks/4651046/?__twitter_impression=true
 

bama_wayne1

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Actually they can be. My son came back as a wounded warrior and was on a list for vets with PTSD. He had to be cleared before he could buy firearms again.
 

Bama 8Ball

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Yeah, we've been here before. Undoubtedly someone will claim that they're more comfortable with mass shootings every week than with the gubment having mentally unstable people on a list. Lists are nonstarters for the reactionaries. The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of innocents, constant danger is a worthy price for absolute freedom, or something like that.
Reactionaries is a good term. But people are selective about what they react to. I wonder why? Maybe because there is no way to gain politically (either way) if you start trying to really dig into the root cause. For example, isn't it appalling is that over 450 people have been murdered in Chicago this year and nobody talks about it.


12 People shot in a bar= national news. 12 people shot on slow Saturday night in Chicago= crickets. There is a big difference and anyone with an ounce of discernment knows what it is. Why is this ok? And this is just one major city.



It is not a democrat vs. republican issue, it is not a gun law issue, it is a people issue. It's the disregard for human life. How do we get people to respect the value of life?
 

Bamabuzzard

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listen to this Mom, her son survived Vegas but not the Thousand Oaks shooting
https://abc7news.com/amp/her-son-su...usand-oaks/4651046/?__twitter_impression=true

I will give this grieving mother the benefit of the doubt because I cannot imagine the feelings she is going through. However, I have to ask the question. Does she want better gun control or guns completely taken away? One I can get on board with, the other I cannot and will not.


"My son was in Las Vegas with a lot of his friends and he came home. He didn't come home last night and I don't want prayers. I don't want thoughts. I want gun control, and I hope to God nobody sends me anymore prayers. I want gun control. No more guns," she said.
 

Bama 8Ball

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So since it wasn't the AR-15, it was the extended magazine? It was illegal to have a gun in the bar. It was illegal to murder someone. Do you really think this guy would have been dissuaded by an illegal magazine?

I mean, it's easy to grab the low hanging fruit, but it would not have been any better if he had driven a panel truck through a crowd, tossed in a pressure cooker bomb, spiked the fireball with strychnine, or any other of a thousand ways he could have killed those people. The only difference is it is a lot harder to blame something on a panel truck than it is a gun, even though both are inanimate objects. Why do we keep focusing on the HOW, when it's the WHY that could lead to answers.
 

Jon

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So since it wasn't the AR-15, it was the extended magazine? It was illegal to have a gun in the bar. It was illegal to murder someone. Do you really think this guy would have been dissuaded by an illegal magazine?

I mean, it's easy to grab the low hanging fruit, but it would not have been any better if he had driven a panel truck through a crowd, tossed in a pressure cooker bomb, spiked the fireball with strychnine, or any other of a thousand ways he could have killed those people. The only difference is it is a lot harder to blame something on a panel truck than it is a gun, even though both are inanimate objects. Why do we keep focusing on the HOW, when it's the WHY that could lead to answers.
it would have been harder for him to kill so many with a smaller mag, sadly the NRA and their California sister orgs sued to allow guys like this to have them
 

CharminTide

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it would have been harder for him to kill so many with a smaller mag, sadly the NRA and their California sister orgs sued to allow guys like this to have them
Sure, but if he didn't have a gun he could have used a rock and there's clearly no difference in lethal potential between the two so people might as well have access to all military instruments because freedom.
 

Bazza

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If you are looking for possible reasons these things continue to happen, I think many of these shooters become disconnected from society.

Now that we have the Internet....more and more people do not "get out" as much as people used to.

Some of those people get sucked into stuff on the Internet and do not have the balance of interaction with people "in the flesh".

They get to the point where they are ready to "check out" and make the decision they are going to take others with them.

I would love to see the sociological profiles on these shooters with emphasis on their Internet activities, to start off this dialogue.

You can talk about gun control all you want, but until a serious investment is made in the mental health aspect, and in particular what I just posted....I don't see much changing.
 

Bama 8Ball

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If you are looking for possible reasons these things continue to happen, I think many of these shooters become disconnected from society.

Now that we have the Internet....more and more people do not "get out" as much as people used to.

Some of those people get sucked into stuff on the Internet and do not have the balance of interaction with people "in the flesh".

They get to the point where they are ready to "check out" and make the decision they are going to take others with them.

I would love to see the sociological profiles on these shooters with emphasis on their Internet activities, to start off this dialogue.

You can talk about gun control all you want, but until a serious investment is made in the mental health aspect, and in particular what I just posted....I don't see much changing.
There may be something to this. The more people see others as a screen name and their conversations are just words on a screen, the less they seem like a real person.


But for the mass murderers, what drives them to want to take as many with them as possible? Notoriety, leaving their mark on the world, are they in so much pain that they need others to feel pain? I don't know the answers. But banning more things and making more laws doesn't seem like the answer...
 

Bazza

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There may be something to this. The more people see others as a screen name and their conversations are just words on a screen, the less they seem like a real person.
But for the mass murderers, what drives them to want to take as many with them as possible? Notoriety, leaving their mark on the world, are they in so much pain that they need others to feel pain? I don't know the answers. But banning more things and making more laws doesn't seem like the answer...
IMHO, gun control is not the problem.

It's what's going in inside the head of these shooters.

That's where I would start.
 

Bazza

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We just need more civility, right?
Yes, but I don't think these people are capable of that, J Thomas.

I watched World News Tonight and they reported this guy was posting on social media as he was in the middle of his shooting spree.

I'm not saying that the Internet or social media is bad....or even that it caused these incidents

But it has made an impact on the mentality of certain people and worth looking at as a contributing factor.
 

uafanataum

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Yes, but I don't think these people are capable of that, J Thomas.

I watched World News Tonight and they reported this guy was posting on social media as he was in the middle of his shooting spree.

I'm not saying that the Internet or social media is bad....or even that it caused these incidents

But it has made an impact on the mentality of certain people and worth looking at as a contributing factor.
I cannot deny that it has made an impact. I have avoided Facebook for the past couple of months and must admit it has changed my day to day life after a time of being off of it and my brain adjusting. However, anyone that will take 12 lives cannot blame social media. They are just crazy period.
 

NationalTitles18

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IMHO, gun control is not the problem.

It's what's going in inside the head of these shooters.

That's where I would start.
There exists a way to remove guns or prevent their acquisition by people who have legitimate mental health issues that should prevent them from possessing a firearm and that also protects 2nd amendment rights. I've talked about it many times.

Problem is, this is another wedge issue the politicians would rather use to secure votes from idiots than to actually help alleviate the problem.

Basic premise:

Mental health/medical professionals, friends, family, law enforcement, or anyone with a reasonable cause/suspicion could petition the court.

Upon submission of petition the subject must relent to law enforcement all firearms and is placed on a list making the unable to purchase firearms legally until their case is handled by a judge.

There are strict time limits at each phase to prevent prohibition by delay.

Much like a hearing for mental health in which someone can be forced to undergo treatment, a judge resides over the case and hears testimony from each side and decides the case on a preponderance of evidence standard. If concerns are confirmed then the ban stands. If found to be unwarranted then a time limit is placed on removal from the list and return of any firearms taken unless stayed/pending on appeal.

Appeal to local, district, state, or federal courts remains an option for either party.

This is the only way I know to both protect the public from raging lunatics and protect the 2nd amendment through due process.
 

tattooguy21

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Aug 14, 2012
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And gun buying continues.

It was surprising that he'd been seen this year by a shrink. Wonder what he was seen for in the first place, and how that might have effected the decision by the shrink.

For the more anti gun peeps here, I think i get it. You ultimately want guns gone, period. I mean, that IS the goal right?

And don't feel obligated to shoot back something sarcastic about, "stoping mass shootings." I think that part goes without saying.

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tattooguy21

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Aug 14, 2012
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There exists a way to remove guns or prevent their acquisition by people who have legitimate mental health issues that should prevent them from possessing a firearm and that also protects 2nd amendment rights. I've talked about it many times.

Problem is, this is another wedge issue the politicians would rather use to secure votes from idiots than to actually help alleviate the problem.

Basic premise:

Mental health/medical professionals, friends, family, law enforcement, or anyone with a reasonable cause/suspicion could petition the court.

Upon submission of petition the subject must relent to law enforcement all firearms and is placed on a list making the unable to purchase firearms legally until their case is handled by a judge.

There are strict time limits at each phase to prevent prohibition by delay.

Much like a hearing for mental health in which someone can be forced to undergo treatment, a judge resides over the case and hears testimony from each side and decides the case on a preponderance of evidence standard. If concerns are confirmed then the ban stands. If found to be unwarranted then a time limit is placed on removal from the list and return of any firearms taken unless stayed/pending on appeal.

Appeal to local, district, state, or federal courts remains an option for either party.

This is the only way I know to both protect the public from raging lunatics and protect the 2nd amendment through due process.
I think this is a great idea. The only concern I have is, you and I aren't friends, we're neighbors. And I hate your guts. And I know you love guns......and the games begin

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