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Protests against the U.S. Flag in Upstate New York

Bazza

Bazza

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Tidewater said:
There is a video on Youtube of this, that cannot be linked due to language.
I regret that this turned into a "you're either with us or against us," kind of thing. That is unfortunate. The flag is mine and yours, Donald Trump's and Barack Obama's, Democrats' and Republicans', men's and women's, and the flag of every color of the rainbow.
I wish young people knew about the great things their country is and has done. That is not the same thing as whitewashing American history, but this is the best country in the world, and has been a blessing to the world, and young people should be taught that.
Matthew Shepard was not killed by the United States. Individuals did that and I believe one of those states put the perps on trial and convicted the murderers.
The United States did not kill Emmet Till. Individuals did that and, even at the time, it would have been condemned by a vast majority of Americans.
The United States government did not create the KKK. The United States government suppressed the KKK.
Patriotism is not racism (although it can be used in racist causes), patriotism is love of country.
This idea of teaching young people that their country is an evil place will bear unfortunate fruit in the future.
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Great post and I agree.

I chalk up a lot of stuff to lack of personal responsibility.

For some reason people really love to generalize.

Especially if it suits their political narrative.

It is what it is and as I posted upstream.....we live in an amazing country full of so many freedoms and opportunities.....the only people who seem to grumble are those too wound up in their politics to realize it.

Edit: The 24 news cycle plus the media's need to create endless controversy for profit and power is not helping either.
 
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Crimson1967

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I think there is a certain segment who just protest because they like to go against the establishment.


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Tidewater

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Crimson1967 said:
I think there is a certain segment who just protest because they like to go against the establishment.
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There is a lot of truth to this. I just wish these young people had demanded against those who wish to use the flag for oppression or in support of white nationalism, which would implicitly mean that they embraced the nation's flag and wished to shield it from being tarnished. That would be a more hopeful approach.
 
Displaced Bama Fan

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tattooguy21 said:
Absolutely agree on these last two points. Completely disagree on the first ones regarding free speech (as far as things being off limits).

I don't believe it's free speech issue that's in question in a group, in a restaurant. That's called harassment.

But regarding the protest of the flag, etc. Fair game as long as it's done legally. That's when you know free speech is working. When the other person says something you are, to your core, fundamentally against to the point it enrages you.....that's what free speech is all about.

That's what makes America a neat place. You may not like the way it is, but change can (and has been, time and again) made via the power of the people.

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It's because of that Flag and the ideals that it represents and those who have defended it which gives people the right to protest. So, protesting that Flag in of itself is protesting what this country stands for. On that note, we will agree to disagree. Ditto for the funerals of...well, anyone. I think there's a decorum that we can all respect no matter how much we dislike someone. I thought Trump's handling of John McCain's death was despicable. Family and friends should be able to mourn their loss peacefully and quietly without intrusion by some idiots who want to make a political statement. At that point, I'm ok with the bubbas from Brandon, MS doing to the Westboro Baptists what they did. If you don't remember, they blocked their cars at their hotel and beat the hell out of a couple of them at a gas station and the Brandon police wouldn't take the report. ;)
 
tattooguy21

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Displaced Bama Fan said:
At that point, I'm ok with the bubbas from Brandon, MS doing to the Westboro Baptists what they did. If you don't remember, they blocked their cars at their hotel and beat the hell out of a couple of them at a gas station and the Brandon police wouldn't take the report. ;)
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How is that any different than the new fascist who call themselves "Antifa" threatening, attacking, and harassing people who want to legally express free speech that leans right?

That was my point above. It's really easy to be pro free speech when you agree with what someone else is saying. A lot more difficult when you don't.

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Displaced Bama Fan

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tattooguy21 said:
How is that any different than the new fascist who call themselves "Antifa" threatening, attacking, and harassing people who want to legally express free speech that leans right?

That was my point above. It's really easy to be pro free speech when you agree with what someone else is saying. A lot more difficult when you don't.

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Hypothetically, if a family member or close friend was killed while serving this country, you would be perfectly fine with ANTIFA or Westboro interrupting the funeral so they could express themselves against the US "imperialistic" endeavors?
 
tattooguy21

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Displaced Bama Fan said:
Hypothetically, if a family member or close friend was killed while serving this country, you would be perfectly fine with ANTIFA or Westboro interrupting the funeral so they could express themselves against the US "imperialistic" endeavors?
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Dude, I'm military. In Washington State. I've had people tell me to my face what a piece of not nice stuff I was. I've had eggs thrown at my car leaving the front gate in Korea.

I've been on funeral detail for guys who were buried in Kanas and in Florida, both times with protest (at the funeral in Kansas, at the airport when we received the coffin).

In all fairness I didn't know those two guys. In all these situations though, I was enraged. I'd have loved nothing more than to take off my uniform and wade into those groups. I was nearly in tears I was so angry/frustrated. And I can tell you that I nearly broke my wrist dealing with my anger later that night with a punching bag while my co-workers dealt with it with alcohol.

Credit the French or the Brits with this this statement, but I believe it
"I detest what you write (say), but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write (speak)."

Not all people agree with me. Sometimes even the peeps I work with. I don't believe there's room for emotions in certain situations.

The first amendment, especially concerning speech, is too important to interpret with emotion. You start chipping away with what you like then what you don't like and then when the other guy takes over, he does the same thing. It then becomes worthless and a tool/weapon only for the person /party in power.


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Displaced Bama Fan

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tattooguy21 said:
Dude, I'm military. In Washington State. I've had people tell me to my face what a piece of not nice stuff I was. I've had eggs thrown at my car leaving the front gate in Korea.

I've been on funeral detail for guys who were buried in Kanas and in Florida, both times with protest (at the funeral in Kansas, at the airport when we received the coffin).

In all fairness I didn't know those two guys. In all these situations though, I was enraged. I'd have loved nothing more than to take off my uniform and wade into those groups. I was nearly in tears I was so angry/frustrated. And I can tell you that I nearly broke my wrist dealing with my anger later that night with a punching bag while my co-workers dealt with it with alcohol.

Credit the French or the Brits with this this statement, but I believe it
"I detest what you write (say), but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write (speak)."

Not all people agree with me. Sometimes even the peeps I work with. I don't believe there's room for emotions in certain situations.

The first amendment, especially concerning speech, is too important to interpret with emotion. You start chipping away with what you like then what you don't like and then when the other guy takes over, he does the same thing. It then becomes worthless and a tool/weapon only for the person /party in power.


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I hear you. I do. I just think there's a sense of decency that commands respect. A funeral for a soldier is at the top of my list. I don't mind taking my frustration out on some of these d-bags. Just let me know when I can come party. I have a few buddies that will help.
 
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