12 SEC team schedule

selmaborntidefan

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It’s time for the SEC to think outside the box with each team playing 12 SEC games each season.
I'm trying to figure out the logic that says "returning our sport to a REGIONAL sport" is considered thinking "outside the box."

That's about as inside the box as one can get.


The SEC has a built in monopoly of football rivalry so there’s no need to share the revenue.

When the rest of the power five adopts this strategy then the season becomes a playoff so we eliminate the need to expand the playoff system to more than four teams.
The ONLY way that the four-team playoff stays is:
a) reduction of FBS teams to only four conferences
b) conference champion is in

I can't wait until we wind up with 8-4 Auburn as the SEC rep? How about you?


The SEC needs to demonstrate this proof of concept before the current TV contract expires. The next TV vendor ( google, amazon, netflix) will triple revenue by focusing on intra conference games of the top 50 teams
The SEC is loading up on H/H games.
 

CoachInWaiting

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Alabama football coach Nick Saban has lobbied for Power Five teams only playing Power Five opponents. The Tide could begin a transition by ending FCS games.

Alabama football coach Nick Saban does not get enough credit for his bold thoughts on improving the college game. There will be plenty of negative chatter in the 2019 and 2020 seasons when the Crimson Tide faces FCS teams, Western Carolina and UT Martin.

Scheduling those games is not Saban's preference. He does it because all the SEC schools do it. Every SEC school but one has one FCS game in the 2019 season. The Florida Gators have two. However, the Gators do not play any Group of Five games in 2019. Florida's two other, out-of-conference games are Miami and Florida State.

What Nick Saban has long proposed is for SEC teams to play 10 conference games, plus two other Power Five teams. The only other SEC head coach ever voicing support was Jim McElwain at Florida. Most of the dissenters are concerned about qualifying for bowl games.

Nick Saban has a plan that changes the six-win threshold for bowl games. Saban believes bowl games should be seeded like the NCAA basketball tournament, without a minimum win requirement. Such a big effort would either require a new committee or an extension of scope for the CFB Playoff Committee. Saban's suggestion has merit but so far he appears to be a lone voice.

https://bamahammer.com/2019/05/08/alabama-football-lead-effort-drop-fcs-contests/
I especially like Saban's bowl-seeding proposal. I'd rather see a team get into a bowl on the strength of a quality loss to a top-5 team than by virtue of a 6th win against an FCS bottom-feeder. It could even help bring about something I have wished for in the past, but no other program in the SEC would entertain. As a prelude to a 9-game SEC schedule (or as an attempt to gain support of it), I would like to see an additional cross-division game that is counted as a non-conference game in the standings. It would be designated at the beginning of the year, so everyone knows what page they are on. Alabama and Ole Miss played a 7th conference game during the 70's when 6 were the standard for the 10-team league. Those games did not help or hurt either team in the SEC standings by rule. It would be hard to get any SEC East team to voluntarily play an extra game against Alabama if it lessened their chances of a title or a bowl game, but it might not hurt as bad if the bowls were seeded.

Maybe it would take some of the luster away from the Tennessee rivalry, but since the viles are often complaining about the unfairness of having to submit to the annual thrashing by Alabama, they might be willing to designate that game as not weighing on the SEC race and take on another permanent West Division opponent. Of course, that would require other schools to get involved as well, so therein lies more issues. If I had my way, I would have the barn and viles playing every year and Alabama and Vanderbilt return to an annual match-up. That one is a selfish game for me because it would give me back the every-other-year game in Nashville that I was able to enjoy before the change to 1 cross-division permanent opponent.
 

ALA2262

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I especially like Saban's bowl-seeding proposal. I'd rather see a team get into a bowl on the strength of a quality loss to a top-5 team than by virtue of a 6th win against an FCS bottom-feeder. It could even help bring about something I have wished for in the past, but no other program in the SEC would entertain. As a prelude to a 9-game SEC schedule (or as an attempt to gain support of it), I would like to see an additional cross-division game that is counted as a non-conference game in the standings. It would be designated at the beginning of the year, so everyone knows what page they are on. Alabama and Ole Miss played a 7th conference game during the 70's when 6 were the standard for the 10-team league. Those games did not help or hurt either team in the SEC standings by rule. It would be hard to get any SEC East team to voluntarily play an extra game against Alabama if it lessened their chances of a title or a bowl game, but it might not hurt as bad if the bowls were seeded.

Maybe it would take some of the luster away from the Tennessee rivalry, but since the viles are often complaining about the unfairness of having to submit to the annual thrashing by Alabama, they might be willing to designate that game as not weighing on the SEC race and take on another permanent West Division opponent. Of course, that would require other schools to get involved as well, so therein lies more issues. If I had my way, I would have the barn and viles playing every year and Alabama and Vanderbilt return to an annual match-up. That one is a selfish game for me because it would give me back the every-other-year game in Nashville that I was able to enjoy before the change to 1 cross-division permanent opponent.

You are confused and wrong about the Ole Miss-Bama games played in the 70's when the conference had a a Six Conference Game Minimum rule. All of those games did count in the standings. The only two regular season games in the history of the SEC played by SEC teams against each other that did not count in the standings were those played by Ole Miss and Bama in 1980 and 1981 when, in 1980, the SEC changed the rule to a Six Conference Game Minimum/Maximum Rule. The 80-81 games were already scheduled, of course, and the schools did not want to cancel them so they were played as OOC games.


http://a.espncdn.com/sec/football/2018/Record Book.pdf
 
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selmaborntidefan

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Alabama football coach Nick Saban has lobbied for Power Five teams only playing Power Five opponents. The Tide could begin a transition by ending FCS games.

This would be a valid argument if one ignores that Alabama has BY FAR played more games than any other FBS team in the last six seasons since the playoff began.

Alabama has played 72 games since the start of the 2014 season.
So has Clemson.

THIRTY-EIGHT of Alabama's foes have been ranked at the time of the game.

THIRTEEN of those teams were ranked in the top four. Two more were ranked #6.

Clemson has faced TWENTY-TWO ranked foes in that same time, only nine ranked in the top five (and four of those were Alabama).

But yes, let's make it even more difficult shall we?





Alabama football coach Nick Saban does not get enough credit for his bold thoughts on improving the college game. There will be plenty of negative chatter in the 2019 and 2020 seasons when the Crimson Tide faces FCS teams, Western Carolina and UT Martin.
You mean like we hear EVERY SINGLE year?

No matter who we play people complain.
No matter how bad we stomp them people complain.

Scheduling those games is not Saban's preference. He does it because all the SEC schools do it. Every SEC school but one has one FCS game in the 2019 season. The Florida Gators have two. However, the Gators do not play any Group of Five games in 2019. Florida's two other, out-of-conference games are Miami and Florida State.
He does it because:
a) other conferences have an extra game that reduces the number of opponents possible
b) small schools like Boise St make impossible demands of either home/home or forcing million-dollar concessions
c) nobody is exactly lining up to come to Tuscaloosa


What Nick Saban has long proposed is for SEC teams to play 10 conference games, plus two other Power Five teams. The only other SEC head coach ever voicing support was Jim McElwain at Florida. Most of the dissenters are concerned about qualifying for bowl games.
True.

Nick Saban has a plan that changes the six-win threshold for bowl games. Saban believes bowl games should be seeded like the NCAA basketball tournament, without a minimum win requirement. Such a big effort would either require a new committee or an extension of scope for the CFB Playoff Committee. Saban's suggestion has merit but so far he appears to be a lone voice.

https://bamahammer.com/2019/05/08/alabama-football-lead-effort-drop-fcs-contests/
The reason we have losing teams in bowl games is because WE HAVE TOO MANY BOWL GAMES!!!!!
 

selmaborntidefan

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Alabama and Ole Miss played a 7th conference game during the 70's when 6 were the standard for the 10-team league. Those games did not help or hurt either team in the SEC standings by rule. It would be hard to get any SEC East team to voluntarily play an extra game against Alabama if it lessened their chances of a title or a bowl game, but it might not hurt as bad if the bowls were seeded.
Respectfully, you've got this a tiny bit wrong.

The rule prior to 1970 was that to remain in conference you had to schedule A MINIMUM of six SEC games, and the ADs were in charge of this, which is why Alabama did not play Ole Miss for nearly two decades (and vice versa. It was similar with LSU). Of course, the six-game schedule was the relic of the days there was a 12-team SEC that included Tulane and Ga Tech. Obviously once those teams left the SEC, it was much more difficult for teams to schedule six conference games or avoid each other.

In 1966, for example, Alabama and UGA split the SEC title despite UGA (technically) only playing five conference games. They spot UGA a break because they had had the Tech game scheduled for years, and the Yellow Jackets had left the SEC late enough that it was impossible for UGA to find a conference opponent (Ole Miss played 7 SEC games that year, and they couldn't schedule Alabama because of the "cool down" period following the alleged fix).

In 1970, the SEC began exerting a bit more control over the conference schedule (they basically said in 1966 for everyone to get things in order because changes were coming). One of the changes was that since it was now a 10-team conference, they reduced mandatory conference games from six to five.

What eventually happened was a complaint about Alabama "gaming" the system, which - in fact - we did.

In 1972, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Auburn despite losing the infamous Punt Bama Punt game.
Why did we win? Because we played eight conference games to their seven.

In 1977, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Kentucky, but it wouldn't have mattered as UK was ineligible. Both teams were unbeaten.

On May 27, 1980, the SEC, Big Eight, Orange and Sugar Bowls met in Palm Beach, Florida to discuss several related issues. One was a potential swap between the Big Eight and SEC regarding which team went to which bowl. The conferences and the bowl games both realized the potential of repetitive bowl games, so they decided to see if they could reach an agreement on last-minute swaps. Obviously, this never happened.

At the same meeting, the SEC considered two requests by the football folks:
1) going to an 8-game conference schedule starting in 1988
2) set the conference champion on the basis of NO MORE THAN six conference games

Just by chance, Alabama and Ole Miss were scheduled to play SEVEN conference games in 1980-81. So the obvious solution was simply to declare those non-conference games because getting an opponent at a late date was next to impossible back then (these games had been scheduled in the mid-70s).

So you're correct that Alabama and Ole Miss played games that didn't count towards the conference - in 80 and 81.

But the mandatory games were only five (not six), and the games DID count in the standings, which is why we won the 1972 SEC title.
 

ALA2262

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Selma said:

"Alabama has played 72 games since the start of the 2014 season.
So has Clemson.

THIRTY-EIGHT of Alabama's foes have been ranked at the time of the game.

THIRTEEN of those teams were ranked in the top four. Two more were ranked #6."


Take any 47 of the 72 and compare them to OU's 47 game winning streak. You will be astounded. OU played only EIGHTEEN that even had a winning record. Ten of those won 6 or less. Three of those were 5-4-1!

Edit: Their string ended AT HOME to a 7-3 ND team that had lost 6-34 at Michigan State the previous week!
 
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spock*

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It’s a crying shame that Alabama has scheduled Duke, New Mexico State, Southern Miss, Western Carolina in the same season.
 
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ALA2262

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Respectfully, you've got this a tiny bit wrong.

The rule prior to 1970 was that to remain in conference you had to schedule A MINIMUM of six SEC games, and the ADs were in charge of this, which is why Alabama did not play Ole Miss for nearly two decades (and vice versa. It was similar with LSU). Of course, the six-game schedule was the relic of the days there was a 12-team SEC that included Tulane and Ga Tech. Obviously once those teams left the SEC, it was much more difficult for teams to schedule six conference games or avoid each other.

In 1966, for example, Alabama and UGA split the SEC title despite UGA (technically) only playing five conference games. They spot UGA a break because they had had the Tech game scheduled for years, and the Yellow Jackets had left the SEC late enough that it was impossible for UGA to find a conference opponent (Ole Miss played 7 SEC games that year, and they couldn't schedule Alabama because of the "cool down" period following the alleged fix).

In 1970, the SEC began exerting a bit more control over the conference schedule (they basically said in 1966 for everyone to get things in order because changes were coming). One of the changes was that since it was now a 10-team conference, they reduced mandatory conference games from six to five.

What eventually happened was a complaint about Alabama "gaming" the system, which - in fact - we did.

In 1972, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Auburn despite losing the infamous Punt Bama Punt game.
Why did we win? Because we played eight conference games to their seven.

In 1977, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Kentucky, but it wouldn't have mattered as UK was ineligible. Both teams were unbeaten.

On May 27, 1980, the SEC, Big Eight, Orange and Sugar Bowls met in Palm Beach, Florida to discuss several related issues. One was a potential swap between the Big Eight and SEC regarding which team went to which bowl. The conferences and the bowl games both realized the potential of repetitive bowl games, so they decided to see if they could reach an agreement on last-minute swaps. Obviously, this never happened.

At the same meeting, the SEC considered two requests by the football folks:
1) going to an 8-game conference schedule starting in 1988
2) set the conference champion on the basis of NO MORE THAN six conference games

Just by chance, Alabama and Ole Miss were scheduled to play SEVEN conference games in 1980-81. So the obvious solution was simply to declare those non-conference games because getting an opponent at a late date was next to impossible back then (these games had been scheduled in the mid-70s).

So you're correct that Alabama and Ole Miss played games that didn't count towards the conference - in 80 and 81.

But the mandatory games were only five (not six), and the games DID count in the standings, which is why we won the 1972 SEC title.
The minimum was six games. From 1954 to 1968 the SEC appointed OOC games to count in the standings so as to avoid violation of the Six Conference Game Minimum Rule. The notation at the bottom of Pg 147 in the following link says there were 16 of these but there were actually 17. FWIW, UGA's record in 1966 (Pg. 149) shows 6-0 because UNC was an appointed conference game for them in that year. Apparently the 5 game minimum was in effect for only three years, 1969-1971. I see no records after that time with fewer than 6 conference games.

http://a.espncdn.com/sec/football/2018/Record Book.pdf
 
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B1GTide

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So is Saban then...
He is not trolling. He has a different agenda. And he doesn't beat is like a drum.

In the current college football world, SEC teams play the most difficult schedules in the country. You must want Alabama to lose if you want the schedule even harder.
 

spock*

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I’m not afraid of competition especially with Saban as the coach. The SEC has a huge advantage over the rest of college football and it’s called content. Everyone wants to play Alabama maybe you’ve seen the signs across the nation.

Cupcake games offer very little in return for the risk while there’s even less incentive to televise a game with a big point spread. In the meantime, there’s plenty of tickets available for the Duke game. Attendance is dropping and better competition may stop the slide.

 
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81usaf92

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After how one game with Florida St nearly costed us a championship in 2017, what sane Alabama fan would want to make the schedule harder than what it already is?
 

81usaf92

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I’m not afraid of competition especially with Saban as the coach. The SEC has a huge advantage over the rest of college football and it’s called content. Everyone wants to play Alabama maybe you’ve seen the signs across the nation.

Cupcake games offer very little in return for the risk while there’s little incentive to televise a game with a big point spread. In the meantime, there’s plenty of tickets available for the Duke game. Attendance is dropping and better competition may stop the slide.

Attendance in college football is already down and dwindling due to advancement in entertainment technology. I don’t think you would’ve had a packed house or a very hard ticket even if it was Texas instead of Duke.
 

selmaborntidefan

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I'm moving this week, so my participation here will be sparse. However, you make a couple of good points here that I have to address.



The minimum was six games. From 1954 to 1968 the SEC appointed OOC games to count in the standings so as to avoid violation of the Six Conference Game Minimum Rule. The notation at the bottom of Pg 147 in the following link says there were 16 of these but there were actually 17. FWIW, UGA's record in 1966 (Pg. 149) shows 6-0 because UNC was an appointed conference game for them in that year. Apparently the 5 game minimum was in effect for only three years, 1969-1971. I see no records after that time with fewer than 6 conference games.

http://a.espncdn.com/sec/football/2018/Record Book.pdf

1) The AP article I quoted from May 1980 (concerning the Alabama-Ole Miss resolution) was apparently incorrect. I had always thought it was six games for the reasons you cite, but it's difficult for me to argue with an article contemporaneous to the time since I didn't know. Further research turned up articles that stated that idea was wrong.

2) I turned up another cache of articles noting that the "only count six conference games" concept passed in 1980 was being debated prior to the 1977 season. It also turned up several articles that folks would smile about nowadays - including Indiana Coach Lee Corson warning the Big Ten that their plan to go round-robin by 1983 was going to cost the conference bowl bids and national championships and that the Big Ten needed to follow the SEC model of six conference games. Also - the SEC was talking about SEC-eding from the NCAA because of the limitations on TV.

3) The Georgia problem was actually the product of Ga Tech leaving the SEC. Pardon my assumption on that, but I was aware that was both Tulane and Tech left, they had to make some temporary modifications because scheduling games in the 60s wasn't anything like today.

But I would note this.....even playing only five games would really hurt a team if that had been the rule - you lose the conference by 1/2 game.


Side note: the ACC declared Duke, UNC, and SCAR ineligible for the conf title prior to the season in 1966 because they had not scheduled six conf games. That was reason for expulsion from the SEC at that time.
 

ALA2262

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I'm moving this week, so my participation here will be sparse. However, you make a couple of good points here that I have to address.






1) The AP article I quoted from May 1980 (concerning the Alabama-Ole Miss resolution) was apparently incorrect. I had always thought it was six games for the reasons you cite, but it's difficult for me to argue with an article contemporaneous to the time since I didn't know. Further research turned up articles that stated that idea was wrong.

2) I turned up another cache of articles noting that the "only count six conference games" concept passed in 1980 was being debated prior to the 1977 season. It also turned up several articles that folks would smile about nowadays - including Indiana Coach Lee Corson warning the Big Ten that their plan to go round-robin by 1983 was going to cost the conference bowl bids and national championships and that the Big Ten needed to follow the SEC model of six conference games. Also - the SEC was talking about SEC-eding from the NCAA because of the limitations on TV.

3) The Georgia problem was actually the product of Ga Tech leaving the SEC. Pardon my assumption on that, but I was aware that was both Tulane and Tech left, they had to make some temporary modifications because scheduling games in the 60s wasn't anything like today.

But I would note this.....even playing only five games would really hurt a team if that had been the rule - you lose the conference by 1/2 game.


Side note: the ACC declared Duke, UNC, and SCAR ineligible for the conf title prior to the season in 1966 because they had not scheduled six conf games. That was reason for expulsion from the SEC at that time.
The "Appointed Conference Games" were silly and it appears the SEC finally realized that in 1968 and temporarily suspended the six game minimum. I had a HUGE problem with Georgia having UNC as an appointed game in 1966 when, in 1964, Tulane's appointed game was Miami. Georgia played Miami in 1966. If Miami was fair for Tulane in 1964, why was it not fair for UGA in 1966? If Miami had been UGA's appointed game in 1966, then their laughable sharing of the SEC Championship with Alabama would not have occurred. Miami was UGA's lone loss in 1966.
 

CoachInWaiting

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Respectfully, you've got this a tiny bit wrong.

The rule prior to 1970 was that to remain in conference you had to schedule A MINIMUM of six SEC games, and the ADs were in charge of this, which is why Alabama did not play Ole Miss for nearly two decades (and vice versa. It was similar with LSU). Of course, the six-game schedule was the relic of the days there was a 12-team SEC that included Tulane and Ga Tech. Obviously once those teams left the SEC, it was much more difficult for teams to schedule six conference games or avoid each other.

In 1966, for example, Alabama and UGA split the SEC title despite UGA (technically) only playing five conference games. They spot UGA a break because they had had the Tech game scheduled for years, and the Yellow Jackets had left the SEC late enough that it was impossible for UGA to find a conference opponent (Ole Miss played 7 SEC games that year, and they couldn't schedule Alabama because of the "cool down" period following the alleged fix).

In 1970, the SEC began exerting a bit more control over the conference schedule (they basically said in 1966 for everyone to get things in order because changes were coming). One of the changes was that since it was now a 10-team conference, they reduced mandatory conference games from six to five.

What eventually happened was a complaint about Alabama "gaming" the system, which - in fact - we did.

In 1972, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Auburn despite losing the infamous Punt Bama Punt game.
Why did we win? Because we played eight conference games to their seven.

In 1977, we won the SEC by 1/2 game over Kentucky, but it wouldn't have mattered as UK was ineligible. Both teams were unbeaten.

On May 27, 1980, the SEC, Big Eight, Orange and Sugar Bowls met in Palm Beach, Florida to discuss several related issues. One was a potential swap between the Big Eight and SEC regarding which team went to which bowl. The conferences and the bowl games both realized the potential of repetitive bowl games, so they decided to see if they could reach an agreement on last-minute swaps. Obviously, this never happened.

At the same meeting, the SEC considered two requests by the football folks:
1) going to an 8-game conference schedule starting in 1988
2) set the conference champion on the basis of NO MORE THAN six conference games

Just by chance, Alabama and Ole Miss were scheduled to play SEVEN conference games in 1980-81. So the obvious solution was simply to declare those non-conference games because getting an opponent at a late date was next to impossible back then (these games had been scheduled in the mid-70s).

So you're correct that Alabama and Ole Miss played games that didn't count towards the conference - in 80 and 81.

But the mandatory games were only five (not six), and the games DID count in the standings, which is why we won the 1972 SEC title.
You're probably 100% right on all of the above. I made my comments based on some article I read years ago where Coach Bryant had addressed some criticism from other SEC coaches for scheduling "an extra game". He explained that he and Coach Vaught thought the Alabama-Ole Miss rivalry was a good one and should be scheduled despite the whims of the SEC office. My memory was that he said the extra game didn't give Alabama an advantage, but he may have been referring to the '80-'81 ruling on those games. Either way, the argument was foolish if it was made, because the "extra game" could also be lost and could hurt as much as help.

Neither the facts nor the legend detract from my desire to see a "non-conference SEC game" between Alabama and an East Division team on the schedule. Maybe if Coach Saban agrees to only dress freshmen and walk-ons for the game, somebody will grow a pair and accept the challenge.
 

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