Shooting at the Hoover Galleria

CrimsonNagus

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are we not going to mention that the entire region was in open rebellion against the federal government? It's not like the Fed just decided to burn Atlanta for no reason.
Well, technically that region had legally withdrawn from the United States, a right that all states legally had. That federal government could have respected that right but, decided it was worth the fighting to force them back into union.


Not that I agree with using the Civil War as an argument for guns today, just saying.


Honestly, I’m so tired of the gun debate. I’m so tired of gun lovers not willing to even start a discussion about tighter gun laws.

I just finished watching the Ken Burns documentary on Prohibition. Something was said during the doc that stood out. The dry supporters refused to even discuss changes to the Volstead Act and were so unwilling to bend that it helped bring about the talks of repeal. If they had just aloud some changes to the act, prohibition may have stuck around for quite a while.

My point, gun owners refusing to even discuss tighter laws will eventually bring about there complete ban if they are not careful.
 

Chukker Veteran

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Did anybody else notice if a white person pulls a handgun in a shootout, he's a potential hero. Blacks, however, seem to not enjoy that benefit of the doubt, and are putting their lives in jeopardy if they draw their gun.

I'm reminded how recently a security guard at a nightclub had overcome a troublemaker and was holding him down waiting for the police to get there. The security guard was black, the police arrived and immediately shot him dead.

My guess is that with the shooting in Hoover, the police overreacted to the sight of a black guy at the scene with a gun in his hand, and shot him. I think it is very unlikely, although certainly possible, the the dead guy, after his friend had been shot, would threaten the police by pointing his gun at them.

The videos will hopefully show whether the dead guy was "brandishing" his gun or simply holding it. They can't release the videos of what happened soon enough, and I'm glad the Hoover officials have agreed they should be made public.
 

92tide

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Do you really believe that there is no chance the federal government might undertake to harm its citizens at some point in the future?
You are aware of the occupant of the White House. You think that a worse one is impossible?
not enough that policy should be made with the inevitability of that as a primary reason.
 

Chukker Veteran

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not enough that policy should be made with the inevitability of that as a primary reason.
A girl I know was considering a double mastectomy because her mother had had beast cancer. She had no signs or any trouble, and asked me my opinion. My reply was similar to what you just said to Tidewater.
 

92tide

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A girl I know was considering a double mastectomy because her mother had had beast cancer. She had no signs or any trouble, and asked me my opinion. My reply was similar to what you just said to Tidewater.
so there are actually some instances where liberals are not for the wholesale, unnecessary removal of guns
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Did anybody else notice if a white person pulls a handgun in a shootout, he's a potential hero. Blacks, however, seem to not enjoy that benefit of the doubt, and are putting their lives in jeopardy if they draw their gun.

I'm reminded how recently a security guard at a nightclub had overcome a troublemaker and was holding him down waiting for the police to get there. The security guard was black, the police arrived and immediately shot him dead.

My guess is that with the shooting in Hoover, the police overreacted to the sight of a black guy at the scene with a gun in his hand, and shot him. I think it is very unlikely, although certainly possible, the the dead guy, after his friend had been shot, would threaten the police by pointing his gun at them.

The videos will hopefully show whether the dead guy was "brandishing" his gun or simply holding it. They can't release the videos of what happened soon enough, and I'm glad the Hoover officials have agreed they should be made public.
Agreed to a point. If I recall, and I may be incorrect, the man who was killed by the police, fled the scene with the gun in his hand...at least that's what I though I initially read. If that's the case, then it certainly presents a different set of circumstances because the police felt that the shooter was fleeing and was brandishing his weapon and could cause harm to others. It's all speculation and conjecture at this point and I'm going to wait until everything settles down and it plays out in a court of law. Hopefully all the facts will be presented fairly and not skewed or withheld so that a clear picture of what actually happened is presented.

Regardless, what appears to be a completely innocent man has died and a police officer has killed an innocent man and may suffer additional consequences as well. It's a no win situation.
 

twofbyc

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Do you really believe that there is no chance the federal government might undertake to harm its citizens at some point in the future?
You are aware of the occupant of the White House. You think that a worse one is impossible?
To your last question: at this point, I think a “worse” one is impossible; I’ll either affirm that decidedly or recant (and speed up departure plans) in two years.
However, I do not ever see any President attempting to eliminate citizen ownership of any and all guns unless another civil war erupts in which case the point is moot.
As bad as Trump is, his base would turn on him if he tried it; Obama never even hinted at doing so. Clinton was the last with his ban on assault weapons (which I agree with unless we want to revive the “well-regulated militia” concept).
This country would have descended into a hell that makes our trip downward now more resemble a trip to Hana before some President would ever even attempt to remove all guns from American citizens.
Is the sun going supernova? Sure - someday. Likely not in thousands of years, though.
Will the earth get hit by an asteroid? Yep. Again, one day. Just not anytime soon.
So no, in our lifetime, our children’s lifetime, or our grandchildren’s lifetime, I do not see that happening and would wager everything I own it doesn’t.


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Crimson1967

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Did anybody else notice if a white person pulls a handgun in a shootout, he's a potential hero. Blacks, however, seem to not enjoy that benefit of the doubt, and are putting their lives in jeopardy if they draw their gun.

I'm reminded how recently a security guard at a nightclub had overcome a troublemaker and was holding him down waiting for the police to get there. The security guard was black, the police arrived and immediately shot him dead.

My guess is that with the shooting in Hoover, the police overreacted to the sight of a black guy at the scene with a gun in his hand, and shot him. I think it is very unlikely, although certainly possible, the the dead guy, after his friend had been shot, would threaten the police by pointing his gun at them.

The videos will hopefully show whether the dead guy was "brandishing" his gun or simply holding it. They can't release the videos of what happened soon enough, and I'm glad the Hoover officials have agreed they should be made public.
The original article said a bunch of people pulled out a gun. But only one gets killed by the cops.


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92tide

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To your last question: at this point, I think a “worse” one is impossible; I’ll either affirm that decidedly or recant (and speed up departure plans) in two years.
However, I do not ever see any President attempting to eliminate citizen ownership of any and all guns unless another civil war erupts in which case the point is moot.
As bad as Trump is, his base would turn on him if he tried it; Obama never even hinted at doing so. Clinton was the last with his ban on assault weapons (which I agree with unless we want to revive the “well-regulated militia” concept).
This country would have descended into a hell that makes our trip downward now more resemble a trip to Hana before some President would ever even attempt to remove all guns from American citizens.
Is the sun going supernova? Sure - someday. Likely not in thousands of years, though.
Will the earth get hit by an asteroid? Yep. Again, one day. Just not anytime soon.
So no, in our lifetime, our children’s lifetime, or our grandchildren’s lifetime, I do not see that happening and would wager everything I own it doesn’t.


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link

we are about to get a real life experiment

At Trump's direction, however, the Justice Department submitted a proposed final rule earlier this year that upended the Obama-era interpretation, and concluded that bump-fire stocks, "slide-fire" devices, and devices with certain similar characteristics all fall within the prohibition on machine guns by allowing a "shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger," and therefore, they are illegal under federal law.
Under the new rule, bump stock owners would be required to destroy or surrender the devices to authorities. Members of the public will be given 90 days to turn in or otherwise discard their bump stocks, according to a source familiar with the final rule.
 

bama_wayne1

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we are about to get a real life experiment
I am what you would probably call a gun nut. I have gun or twenty. I totally agree that fully automatic weapons should be unavailable to the public. Whether it's a straight out machine gun or a modification kit of any kind.
 

92tide

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I am what you would probably call a gun nut. I have gun or twenty. I totally agree that fully automatic weapons should be unavailable to the public. Whether it's a straight out machine gun or a modification kit of any kind.
i think most people are in agreement with you. it will be interesting to see what sort of freak out (if any) there is over this
 

Tidewater

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For the record, nothing I said endorsed pulling a gun in a public shooting, other than to secure myself and my loved ones.
I do not carry in public. Most of my firearms are in excess of five feet long and .50 caliber or better.
My revolver has a 8 inch barrel, so it's not practical.
I understand those who do.
I wonder what police departments advise citizens to do if they are carrying and a shooting takes place in public. If I carried in poublic, I might want to be familiar with that.
 

Tidewater

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i think most people are in agreement with you. it will be interesting to see what sort of freak out (if any) there is over this
I'm not freaked out at all about. It was a technical loop hole (exploiting the particulars of a semi-automatic rifle's workings), and is getting closed.
If the federal government has the right to regulate belt-fed automatic weapons, it surely has the right to regulate a bump-stock.
 

Bamaro

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For the record, nothing I said endorsed pulling a gun in a public shooting, other than to secure myself and my loved ones.
I do not carry in public. Most of my firearms are in excess of five feet long and .50 caliber or better.
My revolver has a 8 inch barrel, so it's not practical.
I understand those who do.
I wonder what police departments advise citizens to do if they are carrying and a shooting takes place in public. If I carried in poublic, I might want to be familiar with that.
This might help if you're black


(That's Eddie Murray in whiteface)
 

Tidewater

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Or as Chris Rock says, get a white friend.
Sad, but true.
If there is a shooting at the Galleria, and the local PD is en route with guns drawn, if you're black, it is the better part of valor to make sure your hands are empty when they arrive.
Running around with a gun drawn when the cops arrive and they have no idea what is going on at the scene is a recipe for tragedy.
 
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twofbyc

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i think most people are in agreement with you. it will be interesting to see what sort of freak out (if any) there is over this
I think the NRA may be the only ones squealing; I know several members who are fine with this ban. But they are disenchanted NRAINO.


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