Question: What's the best way to defend against Kyler Murray?

BamaMoon · Dec 3, 2018

"It takes a hot quarterback to beat Alabama." That's been the narrative over the last few years. And it was almost foul proof.

If that was true this year, we would have lost against Georgia Saturday. Fromm was pinpoint and didn't hardly miss a throw the whole game.

But Fromm didn't nearly beat us, we nearly beat ourselves. That was the real narrative Saturday.

But let's not fool ourselves. We will play better Dec. 29th because there's very little chance we can play worse than against Georgia. But, Murray presents an additional threat with his wheels. The comparisons to Johnny Football are best.

Our defense in better built for this than back in those years, but this will be our toughest test of the year.

While Clemson got the better semis draw (by far), it's probably better we face OU in the semis than if we had to play them in the finals.

FF4bama · Dec 3, 2018

CoachJeff said:
Pray.

What sucks is that Clemson got a bye into the championship game while Bama has to play the best offense in the country and the Heisman winner.

The reward for hard work well done is more hard work. Clemson may find themselves pushed harder than they expect by ND. Either way, when you’ve been the best for as long as Bama has challenges are to be expected.

Snuffy Smith · Dec 3, 2018

I talked to a Sooner fan at the airport today. Apparently there is a contingent of Sooners our there that believe that all they have to do is stop us twice to win. I am not sure how they figure that, since Texas actually stopped them three times, although one was a fumble deep that resulted in s subsequent safety. They also forced them to field goals on 3 of 7 of their scoring possessions & held them to 12.5 points below their season average.

Texas has the 63rd ranked defense compared to Alabama’s #6 ranked defense.

I think if they only manage to stop us twice the score ends up somewhere around 49-30 Alabama. One of the guys on the announcements show yesterday said there’s a good chance that we score on every drive against their defense.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tusks_n_raider · Dec 3, 2018

BamaMoon said:
"It takes a hot quarterback to beat Alabama." That's been the narrative over the last few years. And it was almost foul proof.

If that was true this year, we would have lost against Georgia Saturday. Fromm was pinpoint and didn't hardly miss a throw the whole game.

Man Fromm was ON FIRE. That dude was making NFL throws all night.

I still can't believe that Deep Out route throw he made to the Endzone for a TD. It was completely indefensible...... Our DB was right there and had no shot.

That's the type of throws Murray will have to make all game too if OU is expecting to score 40+.

Intl.Aperture · Dec 3, 2018

The answer here is somewhere in the middle. It's very hard to extrapolate a median outcome when the poles are so far apart.

OU's defense is historically bad. This is true. How much of that is a result of truly being bad or facing a league that houses extraordinary offensive talent and schemes? The truth is in the middle. They are a bad defense technique and talent -wise but the numbers are also somewhat inflated because they play against some very talented offenses. I do not think their defensive talent is as bad as Louisville's or Ole Miss - I'd say maybe Arkansas at worst or Missouri at it's very very best. Yes, we will put lots of points on them.

Conversely, OU's offense is historically good. How much of that is a result of being truly good or facing a league that houses extraordinarily bad defensive talents and schemes? The truth is in the middle. You simply need a pair of eyes to realize that Kyler Murray is a very good quarterback. He's got all the tools except for height - which could actually be a factor. The truth is this absolutely has to be the best offense we have played all year. People rave about OU's offensive line but I honestly don't know how good they are because they haven't played a dominant defensive line all year. That matchup has to be strength on strength. OU's RB's on our ILB's could be an absolute nightmare. Don't think for a second they won't be going after Mack and Moses (mostly Mack). But also don't expect WR's to just be doing backflips across the field with the nearest defender 8 yards away from them. So many of OU's games just have Kyler sitting there waiting to throw it to receivers off in their own zipcode because of inept secondaries and RB's running through gaps the size of interstates. It's not too much of a leap to suppose that those advantages will not exist to the degree that OU are used to when facing Bama. But it will also not likely be the 180 degree flip that some Bama fans are supposing. OU is too multiple and versatile to be outright shutdown.

I agree with the opinions that OU will definitely get some of their points, possibly in the 30's, but conceivably less, but Alabama will absolutely put 50+ on the board. At best I'm expecting a 52-24 type game and at worst a 52-48 type game.

92tide · Dec 3, 2018

tusks_n_raider said:
Man Fromm was ON FIRE. That dude was making NFL throws all night.

I still can't believe that Deep Out route throw he made to the Endzone for a TD. It was completely indefensible...... Our DB was right there and had no shot.

That's the type of throws Murray will have to make all game too if OU is expecting to score 40+.

yesterday i was thinking that if fromm had played like he did in the first 2.5-3 quarters all year, he would be in new york this week. he was having a very good day. which makes the loss that much sweeter

Con · Dec 3, 2018

BamaMoon said:
"It takes a hot quarterback to beat Alabama." That's been the narrative over the last few years. And it was almost foul proof.

If that was true this year, we would have lost against Georgia Saturday. Fromm was pinpoint and didn't hardly miss a throw the whole game.

But Fromm didn't nearly beat us, we nearly beat ourselves. That was the real narrative Saturday.

But let's not fool ourselves. We will play better Dec. 29th because there's very little chance we can play worse than against Georgia. But, Murray presents an additional threat with his wheels. The comparisons to Johnny Football are best.

Our defense in better built for this than back in those years, but this will be our toughest test of the year.

While Clemson got the better semis draw (by far), it's probably better we face OU in the semis than if we had to play them in the finals.

Is that you Gary? :smile:

RTR91 · Dec 3, 2018

92tide said:
i think the best thing we have going for us against their o; our defense is going to hear non-stop for 4 weeks how they will not be able to stop them, just hopefully slow them down.

Yep. The best thing for the defense is for Kyler to win the Heisman over Tua.

BamaMoon said:
"It takes a hot quarterback to beat Alabama." That's been the narrative over the last few years. And it was almost foul proof.

If that was true this year, we would have lost against Georgia Saturday. Fromm was pinpoint and didn't hardly miss a throw the whole game.

But Fromm didn't nearly beat us, we nearly beat ourselves. That was the real narrative Saturday.

But let's not fool ourselves. We will play better Dec. 29th because there's very little chance we can play worse than against Georgia. But, Murray presents an additional threat with his wheels. The comparisons to Johnny Football are best.

Our defense in better built for this than back in those years, but this will be our toughest test of the year.

While Clemson got the better semis draw (by far), it's probably better we face OU in the semis than if we had to play them in the finals.

The "hot QB" narrative gets all of the attention, but the losses starting with the 2013 season have come with plenty of Alabama mistakes. In the seven losses, Alabama has averaged 2.3 turnovers (opponents have averaged 9.4 points off those), one missed field goal per game (opponents have followed those misses with scoring drives averaging 2.9 points).

Alabama has still held those opponents below their scoring average and total yard average while giving up 12.3 points on turnovers and missed field goals.

As far as the OP, play our game. Don't go away from what got you to this point. Why are we going to all of a sudden become a ball control offense and get the playmakers out of a rhythm?

Over the next four weeks, the younger guys in the front seven better get mentally prepared because they are going to need to be ready to play. Between Oklahoma's tempo and how fast Alabama potentially can score on their defense, more guys will need to play.

RollTide_HTTR · Dec 3, 2018

For starters if they are missing Marquise Brown then that's a huge hit for them.

deliveryman35 · Dec 3, 2018

tusks_n_raider said:
To our guest OU fans I do want to say that I'm in no way trying to disrespect or be dismissive of Kyler Murray or your Offense's success this year.

I think you would be formidable in any conference but I also think that more than just a decent portion of that success is due to the absolutely terrible Big12 defenses you face week after week as a whole.

I've watched a lot of Big12 games this year and it's just unbelievable how WIDE OPEN the WR's and TE's get play after play.

Then once a catch is made you can almost bank on another 10+ YAC at LEAST because defenders are flailing and flopping all over the place missing tackles.

So while I can see how Elusive and Fast Murray is and how well that would translate anywhere as far as him picking up 1st downs running an buying time in the pocket for throws....I also have to temper my impressions of his throwing ability when his windows are so often 10 yards by 10 yards.

He won't get very many HUGE throwing 'Lanes' like that against our Defense. He may well have a great game anyway but he's going to be throwing into TIGHT coverage.

You forgot blazing speed. They have it at almost every position, especially all of the skilled positions. Contain will be very key imo on almost every play.
That being said, you are right, we will be by far the best D they’ve faced all year. And having a month to prepare will help tremendously.

deliveryman35 · Dec 3, 2018

RollTide_HTTR said:
For starters if they are missing Marquise Brown then that's a huge hit for them.

Linc Riley seemed to indicate on the orange bowl phone tie-in press conference yesterday that he thinks marquise should be back for the game.

CaliforniaTide · Dec 3, 2018

As Fromm and UGA showed on Saturday, one way to negate the Alabama pass rush is to throw short passes. Don't tell me Lincoln Riley didn't see that and isn't going to try to do the same thing.

owenfieldreams · Dec 3, 2018

Relying on D stats for Big 12 teams compared to teams in the SEC or Big 10 is a false narrative. Texas' D ranking is 65th, as stated earlier, not so much because it's bad but more because its facing incredibly talented O's week in and week out. OU played TT, OSU, & WVU three weeks in a row with 2 of those games on the road. If you drop those 3 games from our stats we are ranked in the 50's. Now, don't get me wrong...our D is bad but it has to be put 8n context. and yes, "Hollywood" will be good to go by 12/29.

B1GTide · Dec 3, 2018

owenfieldreams said:
Relying on D stats for Big 12 teams compared to teams in the SEC or Big 10 is a false narrative.

This is a stock Big 12 answer. The reality - you have no idea how true this is. You will find out in 4 weeks.

uafan4life · Dec 3, 2018

owenfieldreams said:
Relying on D stats for Big 12 teams compared to teams in the SEC or Big 10 is a false narrative. Texas' D ranking is 65th, as stated earlier, not so much because it's bad but more because its facing incredibly talented O's week in and week out. OU played TT, OSU, & WVU three weeks in a row with 2 of those games on the road. If you drop those 3 games from our stats we are ranked in the 50's. Now, don't get me wrong...our D is bad but it has to be put 8n context. and yes, "Hollywood" will be good to go by 12/29.

No, it's not. Overblown? Probably.

But you can't deny that Big 12 teams' offensive scoring averages over the past five seasons when playing Power 5 out-of-conference opponents is less than 75% what it is when playing Big 12 conference foes.

Yes, Big 12 raw defensive stats are at least somewhat inflated due to the generally higher caliber of offenses across the board in the conference.

However, on the flip-side, other Power 5 offenses average scoring more points when playing Big 12 foes than when playing their own conference opponents.

The "just outscore your opponent" mindset prevalent in the Big 12 doesn't just inflate defensive stats; it leads to softer, weaker defenses as well. There are recruiting, schematic, and attitude factors that contribute to that condition as a result of that prevalent attitude.

92tide · Dec 3, 2018

owenfieldreams said:
Relying on D stats for Big 12 teams compared to teams in the SEC or Big 10 is a false narrative. Texas' D ranking is 65th, as stated earlier, not so much because it's bad but more because its facing incredibly talented O's week in and week out. OU played TT, OSU, & WVU three weeks in a row with 2 of those games on the road. If you drop those 3 games from our stats we are ranked in the 50's. Now, don't get me wrong...our D is bad but it has to be put 8n context. and yes, "Hollywood" will be good to go by 12/29.

i remember playing a highly rated texas defense in 2009

selmaborntidefan · Dec 3, 2018

92tide said:
yesterday i was thinking that if fromm had played like he did in the first 2.5-3 quarters all year, he would be in new york this week. he was having a very good day. which makes the loss that much sweeter

My Lord, you ARE a sadist, heh heh heh......

selmaborntidefan · Dec 3, 2018

RTR91 said:
Yep. The best thing for the defense is for Kyler to win the Heisman over Tua.

The "hot QB" narrative gets all of the attention, but the losses starting with the 2013 season have come with plenty of Alabama mistakes. In the seven losses, Alabama has averaged 2.3 turnovers (opponents have averaged 9.4 points off those), one missed field goal per game (opponents have followed those misses with scoring drives averaging 2.9 points).

Alabama has still held those opponents below their scoring average and total yard average while giving up 12.3 points on turnovers and missed field goals.

As far as the OP, play our game. Don't go away from what got you to this point. Why are we going to all of a sudden become a ball control offense and get the playmakers out of a rhythm?

Over the next four weeks, the younger guys in the front seven better get mentally prepared because they are going to need to be ready to play. Between Oklahoma's tempo and how fast Alabama potentially can score on their defense, more guys will need to play.

EXACTLY!!!

I've been pointing this out myself for years. In pretty much all those games save for 2013 Auburn, we lost the turnover battle.

Snuffy Smith · Dec 3, 2018

Intl.Aperture said:
The answer here is somewhere in the middle. It's very hard to extrapolate a median outcome when the poles are so far apart.

OU's defense is historically bad. This is true. How much of that is a result of truly being bad or facing a league that houses extraordinary offensive talent and schemes? The truth is in the middle. They are a bad defense technique and talent -wise but the numbers are also somewhat inflated because they play against some very talented offenses. I do not think their defensive talent is as bad as Louisville's or Ole Miss - I'd say maybe Arkansas at worst or Missouri at it's very very best. Yes, we will put lots of points on them.

Conversely, OU's offense is historically good. How much of that is a result of being truly good or facing a league that houses extraordinarily bad defensive talents and schemes? The truth is in the middle. You simply need a pair of eyes to realize that Kyler Murray is a very good quarterback. He's got all the tools except for height - which could actually be a factor. The truth is this absolutely has to be the best offense we have played all year. People rave about OU's offensive line but I honestly don't know how good they are because they haven't played a dominant defensive line all year. That matchup has to be strength on strength. OU's RB's on our ILB's could be an absolute nightmare. Don't think for a second they won't be going after Mack and Moses (mostly Mack). But also don't expect WR's to just be doing backflips across the field with the nearest defender 8 yards away from them. So many of OU's games just have Kyler sitting there waiting to throw it to receivers off in their own zipcode because of inept secondaries and RB's running through gaps the size of interstates. It's not too much of a leap to suppose that those advantages will not exist to the degree that OU are used to when facing Bama. But it will also not likely be the 180 degree flip that some Bama fans are supposing. OU is too multiple and versatile to be outright shutdown.

I agree with the opinions that OU will definitely get some of their points, possibly in the 30's, but conceivably less, but Alabama will absolutely put 50+ on the board. At best I'm expecting a 52-24 type game and at worst a 52-48 type game.

Here are some relevant stats -

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92tide · Dec 3, 2018

selmaborntidefan said:
My Lord, you ARE a sadist, heh heh heh......

i am living in high cotton.

Question: What's the best way to defend against Kyler Murray?

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