The Mental Gymnastics of Pro-Trump Evangelicals

Crimson1967

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He’d be branded a RINO today (especially given his support of gay rights) but he hit the nail on the head here.


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bama_wayne1

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I don't recall ever responding to you with uncivil snark. Not sure where that came from. I've used plenty of civil, jokey snark with you because I like you.

I'm not worried about whether or not people are saved. I didn't bring up him being saved first, I just pointed out that there is around zero percent chance of him being saved. No matter how someone imagines the lord decides it.
You were snarky with me. Would you like to point out where I said he is saved. In fact my comment was intended to point out that I can't know nor can anyone but Trump and the Lord. I am not trying to say he is good or bad just that we can't make the determination of anyone's salvation.
 

92tide

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You were snarky with me. Would you like to point out where I said he is saved. In fact my comment was intended to point out that I can't know nor can anyone but Trump and the Lord. I am not trying to say he is good or bad just that we can't make the determination of anyone's salvation.
i will say, if trump is saved then saved has no meaning.
 

MattinBama

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You were snarky with me. Would you like to point out where I said he is saved. In fact my comment was intended to point out that I can't know nor can anyone but Trump and the Lord. I am not trying to say he is good or bad just that we can't make the determination of anyone's salvation.
I meant that you brought up the topic of him being saved. I understood your comment I just disagree.
 

CharminTide

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i will say, if trump is saved then saved has no meaning.
If crooks like Trump end up in heaven, it is a vastly overrated place. Maybe Shakespeare was right that hell is indeed empty, and all the devils are here.
 

bama_wayne1

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i will say, if trump is saved then saved has no meaning.
I believe that there will be only sinners in heaven. I believe we have all sinned and without forgiveness we will not be in heaven. I also believe that sin really doesn't have a ranking system for God other than blasphemy. My sin is no less offending than another's. Without God's grace and the sacrifice of Jesus I would be condemned to hell. After saying all that, I must say that I try and fail every day to not commit sin.
 

GrayTide

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I do not profess to know Trump's spirituality or whether he is saved or not, to me that is immaterial. All I know is that he is an egotistical, sociopath who is in it for himself and himself only. In addition to being a compulsive liar, he is a crook and is using the American taxpayer to enhance his wealth and that of his family. As President he could not have accomplished any of this without the backing of the religious right evangelicals and the sycophants in Congress. The American populace will pay for allowing this to happen, and we may suffer for years to come for letting someone so devious and cowardly gain control of our government.
 

Crimson1967

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I wonder why Trump wasted money paying off his mistresses. The fundies either wouldn’t believe it or wouldn’t care.


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TIDE-HSV

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I grew up a Methodist, although I don't consider myself one now.

Here's what precipitated the break for me:

The Methodist church will not let gays or lesbians be members of the clergy, they are considered second class members. They evidently leave it up to a popular vote every four years. I've had it explained that after the evangelical outreach in Africa, where pseudo Christians (self-proclaimed evangelicals) took it upon themselves to demonize homosexuality, the Methodists in Africa have voted overwhelmingly to keep gays out of the clergy ever since. The Methodist book of rules also says homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity, as if you can be one or the other, but not both.

The guy who writes for AL. Com, John Archibald, grew up in Decatur, his father was my Methodist minister. His brother, who was in my class all the way through high school, is openly homosexual.

So we get to the gay marriage debate. Rev. Archibald would be in jeopardy of being kicked out of the clergy if he conducted a same sex marriage for his son. A Methodist minister from up north somewhere married his son and his spouse, the church took him to trial to defrock him.

Meanwhile, another Methodist minister, Terry Greer, who used to preach at the same church went nuts, shot and killed his wife, and tried to kill his daughter. Five years later, he's out of the nut house, ready to rejoin society. He was never defrocked and had been preaching to the others at the facility the whole time.

So that left me wondering, if the minister who conducted a same sex marriage for his son was taken to church court to defrock him...would the church have been more understanding, and not tried to defrock him if he had simply shot his son instead of helping him marry?

And conversely, would the preacher who murdered his wife and was not defrocked...would he have been defrocked if he had committed the grave sin of conducting a same sex marriage when he was under detention?

I credit the modern day version of evangelicals for this gross set of priorities.
There's a special session of the General Conference at the end of the month. No matter the outcome, it's expected that the church will fracture. I think I had grandfather Archibald back in the '40s. Central Methodist? :)
 

92tide

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Looking for the right thread - this ain’t it, but I’m tired of looking. Tedious on my iPad.

https://apple.news/AWe2JD4cNTC68-2vrsNgAmw


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the southern baptist church is where i was first presented with the concept of "with conservatives, it is always projection" ;)

this was a telling quote from the article

In America, a contributing factor is a strong culture of collective victimhood in the evangelical community. My interviewees and I were taught growing up that evangelicals were the real victims — that the world hated us so much they’d do anything to make us look bad. So, it was our job to represent our community in the best light possible for more people to join us and enter into heaven. The underlying message was clear: a good Christian keeps their mouth shut.
 
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bama_wayne1

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I've been a Southern Baptist most of my adult life and have never heard anything taught about us being a victim. Of course I only attend church when there is an opportunity. Every pastor I've ever known preached that everyone sins, including us, and that we all need forgiveness. The only things I've ever heard about persecution of Christians was as it related to serving in areas where it was not safe. I know we don't typically share the same views as other people on matters of religion but honestly I've been taught more about having a personal relationship with Christ than religion.
 

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