Alabama: Tide vs Sooners: X's and O's and Jimmies and Joes

B1GTide · Dec 10, 2018

Power Eye said:
The issue I have with this is the belief that we are going to score at will on Oklahoma. If that's the case, then what we are debating is a moot point and we will win regardless of the strategy used.

I just don't buy into the idea that Oklahoma is completely inept on defense. I think they have some elite athletes on that side of the ball that can make plays in defending the pass and getting to the QB. I also think they don't have the personnel to stop an effective running game since that is not the style of offense they generally face.

Nope - they don't have a single player on defense that would make Alabama's two deep. Not a single player.

Their best defensive player is Kenneth Murray. He is on the all-Big 12 team in their second unit. The Sooners do not have a single defensive player on the first unit, and only Murray in the second unit. We are talking about Big 12 defensive players here, and the Sooners have one player on their two deep.

B1GTide · Dec 10, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
And people seem to overlook how UGA plays - they're the one team that lined up and played every bit as physically as Bama does. That game was full of massive collisions - in the trenches, tackling ball carriers, etc.

Let's not forget that Fromm was the highest rated QB in the second half of the season. Yep - he had a higher passer rating than both Murray and Tua in the second half. What he did to Alabama was not a fluke. He has become that good. Alabama was just better.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

B1GTide said:
Let's not forget that Fromm was the highest rated QB in the second half of the season. Yep - he had a higher passer rating than both Murray and Tua in the second half. What he did to Alabama was not a fluke. He has become that good. Alabama was just better.

I also think Georgia's skill position players rival all of the top teams in the nation. Swift, Nauta, all of the receivers. Those guys are incredibly talented. Holding them to 28 points was pretty good, IMO. That was a great accomplishment for our program beating them when Fromm basically couldn't miss all day.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

I'll further expound on DeVonta Smith being fully healthy. That guy is a true deep threat and he wasn't full speed after the Missouri game. He can absolutely take the top off a secondary. Jeudy, Ruggs and Waddle are great of course but having Smith with them makes it lethal. Add in Irv Smith and Jacobs, and well, have at it OU. West Virginia has a great offense but their main guy is Sills. Alabama has six or seven versions of him.

uafan4life · Dec 10, 2018

Power Eye said:
...I just don't buy into the idea that Oklahoma is completely inept on defense. I think they have some elite athletes on that side of the ball that can make plays in defending the pass and getting to the QB. I also think they don't have the personnel to stop an effective running game since that is not the style of offense they generally face.

Really? Name them...

The narrative tends to be that offenses in the Big 12 are significantly better than in the SEC. The primary reason for this is because of recent historical perception, seemingly higher-scoring games, total passing yardage, and overall offensive yardage differences between the two conferences. However, this narrative is a bit misleading.

When you look at scoring averages, the SEC more than holds its own against the Big 12.

When you look at total yardage and passing yardage per game numbers, it certainly looks at first glance as if the Big 12 leads the way. However, there's a very important stat here to consider: plays per game. Texas Tech, Texas, and Oklahoma State are all in the Top 15 in the country in plays per game while the SEC has no teams that high.

The primary reason the raw offensive stats for Big 12 offenses look so high is that their collective offensive and defensive philosophies result in more drives and plays per game.

However, if you look at stats which reflect more the quality of play rather than just the mere quantity of yards - such as passing efficiency, yards per rush, yards per play, etc. against Power 5 competition - the SEC not only holds its own at the top of the heap but has more teams overall in the top half of all Power 5 teams.

Statistically, the best offenses in the SEC this season are just as good as the best offenses in the Big 12 and the SEC has more overall average-or-better offenses than does the Big 12.

All this while both perception and statistical evidence points toward the SEC having much better defensive play at the top and overall than the Big 12.

If you look at those stats I mentioned earlier, you'll find that the closest defenses to Oklahoma's in terms of quality that we've faced this season are Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas A&M, and Missouri.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

uafan4life said:
Really? Name them...

The narrative tends to be that offenses in the Big 12 are significantly better than in the SEC. The primary reason for this is because of recent historical perception, seemingly higher-scoring games, total passing yardage, and overall offensive yardage differences between the two conferences. However, this narrative is a bit misleading.

When you look at scoring averages, the SEC more than holds its own against the Big 12.

When you look at total yardage and passing yardage per game numbers, it certainly looks at first glance as if the Big 12 leads the way. However, there's a very important stat here to consider: plays per game. Texas Tech, Texas, and Oklahoma State are all in the Top 15 in the country in plays per game while the SEC has no teams that high.

The primary reason the raw offensive stats for Big 12 offenses look so high is that their collective offensive and defensive philosophies result in more drives and plays per game.

However, if you look at stats which reflect more the quality of play rather than just the mere quantity of yards - such as passing efficiency, yards per rush, yards per play, etc. against Power 5 competition - the SEC not only holds its own at the top of the heap but has more teams overall in the top half of all Power 5 teams.

Statistically, the best offenses in the SEC this season are just as good as the best offenses in the Big 12 and the SEC has more overall average-or-better offenses than does the Big 12.

All this while both perception and statistical evidence points toward the SEC having much better defensive play at the top and overall than the Big 12.

If you look at those stats I mentioned earlier, you'll find that the closest defenses to Oklahoma's in terms of quality that we've faced this season are Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas A&M, and Missouri.

Missouri is highly underrated. That team is really good, IMO. They finished the year red hot. I might actually pick them to upset Oklahoma if they were to square off. Lock is a hell of QB.

owenfieldreams · Dec 10, 2018

I just got in from running errands ( I'm retired ). Was listening to Sirius-xm 84. They had former all-big 12 center Gabe Ikard on. He was our starting center in the Clemson playoff game and the Auburn Sugar Bowl game. I missed the first part of the interview but they asked him why Riley's O was so good. Some of his comments mirrored what I have said. First, multiple plays called from the same 11 personnel set; not many plays but as many as 10 variations off the same play...used the counter trey as an example; said that in reviewing opponents he looks for their best player and what he does best and then takes advantage of it because as good as the player is he is overly aggressive in his strength. Gabe said he never looks at weaknesses or what other teams had success with. Finally, he game plans specifically for that game and opponent and doesn't rely on other opponent's similarities. The strength of a player or player group is what I pointed out vs Ga. Gabe used TOSU last year in Columbus and how the aggressive play of the Buckeye LB's were exploited by our passes over the middle to our H-back or TE. I'll have more on our D later.

Con · Dec 10, 2018

crimsonaudio said:
And people seem to overlook how UGA plays - they're the one team that lined up and played every bit as physically as Bama does. That game was full of massive collisions - in the trenches, tackling ball carriers, etc.

Georgia seems like the only team that when we would stand up the running back their O-line would move the pile a few yards more just like we do. When they were doing that to our defense I was getting very worried because that doesn't typically happen to us. We are the ones doing it to other teams.

wishbonedays · Dec 10, 2018

I probably overlooked this in the tread, so I apologize up front if this has been covered here already...if you had to compare Oklahoma's front 7 to Georgia's fornt 7, how do they stack up? I read several times that Georgia's front 7 were not that great, at least statistically, but they certainly had quite a push against us in the SECCG. I have seen very limited footage of Oklahoma, but it seems that their D-line isn't as big/physical as Georgia's. I'm hoping that this will result in longer time for Tua to see/read/throw

wishbonesooner · Dec 10, 2018

russtang said:
As usual what happens in the trenches will be a big factor in determining the outcome. OU has a good Oline and CLR says their center is not only the best center but the best Olineman he has ever seen in college football. Q and co. against their Oline will be the key matchup IMO.

That would be Creed Humphrey, a true freshman from my high school alma mater, Shawnee High School. A great kid, he'll have his hands full for sure.

uafan4life · Dec 10, 2018

wishbonesooner said:
That would be Creed Humphrey, a true freshman from my high school alma mater, Shawnee High School. A great kid, he'll have his hands full for sure.

It'll be very interesting to see how the true freshman fares when the highest-rated defensive player in the country is lining up right in his face.

owenfieldreams · Dec 10, 2018

Riley called him the best football player on OU's squad. He will be an all-American and a 1st round pick.

The Ols · Dec 10, 2018

Which is great...in two years. Right now the question is can he handle the highest rated defensive player in the country snap after snap on 12/29?

owenfieldreams said:
Riley called him the best football player on OU's squad. He will be an all-American and a 1st round pick.

RTR91 · Dec 10, 2018

Power Eye said:
The issue I have with this is the belief that we are going to score at will on Oklahoma. If that's the case, then what we are debating is a moot point and we will win regardless of the strategy used.

I just don't buy into the idea that Oklahoma is completely inept on defense. I think they have some elite athletes on that side of the ball that can make plays in defending the pass and getting to the QB. I also think they don't have the personnel to stop an effective running game since that is not the style of offense they generally face.

I'll repeat the stats I gave earlier:

Opponents gained 31 more yards against OU than their other opponents.

OU gave up 32.38 points per game while its opponents averaged 29.95 points in their other games.

Opponents also gained more yards per play against OU than they did in the other games.

Their defense is bad.

UGA averaged 9.3 yards per rush against them last year. If Alabama slows it down and runs the ball like you want, the offense could be off the field just as quick as it could be if it plays the way it has been all year.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

RTR91 said:
I'll repeat the stats I gave earlier:

Opponents gained 31 more yards against OU than their other opponents.

OU gave up 32.38 points per game while its opponents averaged 29.95 points in their other games.

Opponents also gained more yards per play against OU than they did in the other games.

Their defense is bad.

UGA averaged 9.3 yards per rush against them last year. If Alabama slows it down and runs the ball like you want, the offense could be off the field just as quick as it could be if it plays the way it has been all year.

Nick Chubb and Sony Michel had running lanes six yards wide to run through last year. No exaggeration. Can Alabama do the same ? We'll see.

wishbonesooner · Dec 10, 2018

The Ols said:
Which is great...in two years. Right now the question is can he handle the highest rated defensive player in the country snap after snap on 12/29?

As I said, Creed will have his hands full. I do know he won't run away from competition. He'll scrap all night. It will be fun to waatch.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

I hope Deonte Brown is ready to go because he is a boulder in the middle of our line. Cotton is capable but Brown really makes this offense even better because of his massive body in the run game. I also think he's an underrated in pass pro, too.

B1GTide · Dec 10, 2018

wishbonedays said:
I probably overlooked this in the tread, so I apologize up front if this has been covered here already...if you had to compare Oklahoma's front 7 to Georgia's fornt 7, how do they stack up? I read several times that Georgia's front 7 were not that great, at least statistically, but they certainly had quite a push against us in the SECCG. I have seen very limited footage of Oklahoma, but it seems that their D-line isn't as big/physical as Georgia's. I'm hoping that this will result in longer time for Tua to see/read/throw

Let me put it this way - none of their front 7 would start if they were at Georgia. Also, the reason that they could get an effective pass rush on Alabama is because they could effectively play Alabama's receivers man to man. They have the #27 ranked passing efficiency defense even with the weak pass rush. That is all because of their secondary.

So, I guess if they get a career game from their front 7 and, at the same time, get career days from all of their DBs, they could have similar success. But think about this - Alabama still scored 35 on GA, with Tua hurt in the first series, and with Tua throwing 2 picks, and with the receivers who dropped 6 passes all season dropping 4 passes in the first half, all but one of which cost Alabama points.

So, even if they match what GA did, they still need a boatload of luck to keep Alabama below 50 points.

BamaMan09 · Dec 10, 2018

B1GTide said:
Let me put it this way - none of your front 7 would start if they were at Georgia. Also, the reason that they could get an effective pass rush on Alabama is because they could effectively play Alabama's receivers man to man. They have the #27 ranked passing efficiency defense even with the weak pass rush. That is all because of their secondary.

So, I guess if you get a career game from your front 7 and, at the same time, get career days from all of your DBs, you could have similar success. But think about this - Alabama still scored 35 on GA, with Tua hurt in the first series, and with Tua throwing 2 picks, and with the receivers who dropped 6 passes all season dropping 4 passes in the first half, all but one of which cost Alabama points.

So, even if you match what GA did, you still need a boatload of luck to keep Alabama below 50 points.

Yep. Alabama played a C+ game and still scored 35.

JustNeedMe81 · Dec 10, 2018

owenfieldreams said:
I just got in from running errands ( I'm retired ). Was listening to Sirius-xm 84. They had former all-big 12 center Gabe Ikard on. He was our starting center in the Clemson playoff game and the Auburn Sugar Bowl game. I missed the first part of the interview but they asked him why Riley's O was so good. Some of his comments mirrored what I have said. First, multiple plays called from the same 11 personnel set; not many plays but as many as 10 variations off the same play...used the counter trey as an example; said that in reviewing opponents he looks for their best player and what he does best and then takes advantage of it because as good as the player is he is overly aggressive in his strength. Gabe said he never looks at weaknesses or what other teams had success with. Finally, he game plans specifically for that game and opponent and doesn't rely on other opponent's similarities. The strength of a player or player group is what I pointed out vs Ga. Gabe used TOSU last year in Columbus and how the aggressive play of the Buckeye LB's were exploited by our passes over the middle to our H-back or TE. I'll have more on our D later.

It may have worked in Big Ten, but I'm not sure those will work against Alabama though. I believe someone said that Riley doesn't make adjustments in the game often... So if he is game planning like that in a usual way... This may get ugly fast... You really want to take advantage of Mack and the secondary in the middle of the field as much as you can. Do that and they can drive up the field on Alabama. Just not sure I would create a game plan in a way they would use a team's strength instead of looking for weakness .... Might play into Alabama hand. Riley's playcalling reminds me a lot of Lane Kiffin in some way.

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