Link: ACA holding...

Bamabuzzard

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Yes, if you qualified for the credits, the ACA was great. Problem is that most middle class folks don't qualify for the credits. My premiums doubled during the fist year of the ACA through my employer insurance program. The open market was even more expensive because I didn't qualify for the credits. So, from my point of view, the ACA sucks.

I do agree that support for Trump and the stripping of heath care by his base is odd because, their are probably plenty of them benefiting from the ACA credits.

I have no clue what would fix health care in this country. I like reading well thought out post from people offering ideas. When Obama was pushing the ACA, I was 100% against government run health care but, I think I'm now leaning more towards that because nothing else has worked. All I know is that the insurance companies need to go away because they are the ones ruining the system. The only reason hospitals charge tens of thousands of dollars for a multi-day stay is because of the insurance companies.
And the unfortunate thing about getting rid of the insurance companies is the moment the hospitals/doctors cannot make the type money they are currently making. Then the highly qualified doctors, surgeons and other specialists leave the industry. The ability to make a lot of money attracts highly qualified people. When that money goes away the highly qualified people do to. Which means your level of care does to. Also, the companies who do research and development that provide the medicines to treat you also begin to disappear. It's not as simple as "just get rid of the insurance companies and everything will be fixed".
 

TIDE-HSV

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I'm 64, semi-retired. I collect rents for an income, and have qualified for tax credits through the ACA for several years, it has been great for me. This year, a storm blew a neighbor's tree onto one of my rental units, demolishing the duplex. I am now without that income it was bringing.

The insurance company paid me what it was covered for, which my accountant then said put me over the income limit to receive any tax credits. The insurance company insisted insurance claims were not taxed as regular income, and would not jeopardize my health insurance coverage, but my accountant disagreed.

My monthly payment went from $245 to $1295, and I will be expected to reimburse the difference this spring for any payments made at the reduced rate over the year. A $13,000 swing.

The ACA now tells me I made a mistake reporting the insurance payout as income, and should appeal it. My next question, if my appeal goes my way, will it be reversed when the taxes are filed? I know that question seems insane but it's actually relevant in my situation. So I try to clarify with the IRS, and am told they won't address that question until next year, in January.

The one thing that is clear to me...with the ACA marketplace assistance my monthly premiums were $245 per month. Without, $1295. All my Republican "friends" voted to end the ACA, which would have cost me an additional $13,000 per year for my 63rd and 64th year before becoming eligible for Medicare. That's a $26,000 total they wanted me pay because of nonsense they heard on Fox news.

The ACA is a flawed system, I hope the GOP continues to pay a price for trying to tear it down rather that improve it. The evangelical support for Trump and his desire to strip health care from so many millions is something I will never understand.
Did you reinvest the proceeds?
 

Chukker Veteran

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Yes, if you qualified for the credits, the ACA was great. Problem is that most middle class folks don't qualify for the credits. My premiums doubled during the fist year of the ACA through my employer insurance program. The open market was even more expensive because I didn't qualify for the credits. So, from my point of view, the ACA sucks.
One of the tactics the GOP has used to weaken the ACA has actually increased the premiums for those that didn't qualify for the tax credits.
 

twofbyc

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And the unfortunate thing about getting rid of the insurance companies is the moment the hospitals/doctors cannot make the type money they are currently making. Then the highly qualified doctors, surgeons and other specialists leave the industry. The ability to make a lot of money attracts highly qualified people. When that money goes away the highly qualified people do to. Which means your level of care does to. Also, the companies who do research and development that provide the medicines to treat you also begin to disappear. It's not as simple as "just get rid of the insurance companies and everything will be fixed".
Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - who is a doctor making 250-300 thousand a year and is suddenly told they won’t make but 150-200 thou a year, and decides to build houses wasn’t a doctor to begin with; doctors care about healing the sick (you know, the “Oath” and all that) and it’s patently obvious anyone who does what you suggest cares about the money and not the sick
Of course, I don’t know if my numbers are right - do you have any numbers that aren’t simply wags? I don’t think anybody does. But doctors and healthcare professionals should care about “care” first; if they don’t they are in the wrong profession to begin with.
It’s like spending money to slow down or halt climate change, or even repair our infrastructure - some people value money over the quality of their own existence. And that’s just sad.


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Its On A Slab

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It's sort of like the Spanish Inquisition...if you survive the illness, you are sealed. If you die, straight to hell for you.
NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.
 

Bamabuzzard

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Anyone - and I mean ANYONE - who is a doctor making 250-300 thousand a year and is suddenly told they won’t make but 150-200 thou a year, and decides to build houses wasn’t a doctor to begin with; doctors care about healing the sick (you know, the “Oath” and all that) and it’s patently obvious anyone who does what you suggest cares about the money and not the sick
Of course, I don’t know if my numbers are right - do you have any numbers that aren’t simply wags? I don’t think anybody does. But doctors and healthcare professionals should care about “care” first; if they don’t they are in the wrong profession to begin with.
It’s like spending money to slow down or halt climate change, or even repair our infrastructure - some people value money over the quality of their own existence. And that’s just sad.


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It's easy to tell someone else to go spend anywhere between 10-15 additional years of their life in school to become a doctor, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of personal educational loans, assume the risk of being personally sued if they make a mistake with someone's body. And do it for what someone managing a Kroger makes, in the name of the greater good. While everyone else isn't willing to make the same sacrifices in their own careers. I don't see anything wrong with a person who has the capabilities of being a great doctor. Deciding to go into another field of work, because after taking everything into consideration. It simply isn't worth it for them and their family. That doesn't make them a bad person. People who are capable of being doctors aren't morally obligated to be one.
 

CrimsonNagus

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This thread is depressing. Can't truly reform health care because of the poor wealthy people. Think of all the insurance CEOs, drug CEOs and 250K surgeons. Those poor, poor people.


This country is being held prisoner by the wealthy class.
 

Bamabuzzard

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This thread is depressing. Can't truly reform health care because of the poor wealthy people. Think of all the insurance CEOs, drug CEOs and 250K surgeons. Those poor, poor people.


This country is being held prisoner by the wealthy class.
We could lower the standards and time it took to be a practicing surgeon, cardiologists etc and I'm sure there would be more people willing to take $150,000/year to do open heart surgery on your loved one.
 

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We could lower the standards and time it took to be a practicing surgeon, cardiologists etc and I'm sure there would be more people willing to take $150,000/year to do open heart surgery on your loved one.
There would be nothing to prevent doctors from making investments to beef up their income if that approach was taken.
 

Bamabuzzard

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There would be nothing to prevent doctors from making investments to beef up their income if that approach was taken.

What type "investments"? Also, since we've done away with insurance about four posts up. How do you address their ability to afford to pay for lawsuits filed against them? Without liability insurance they would have to be literally personally liable for any claims against them. Would these "investments" produce enough constant stream of income to cover that? Because at $150,000/year and doing no telling how many surgeries in any given year. There's no way they could save enough from that type income to cover legal cost of a claim filed against them. Would we have to now ask lawyers to lower their fees in the name of the greater good, so doctors can afford legal counsel?
 
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Displaced Bama Fan

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We could lower the standards and time it took to be a practicing surgeon, cardiologists etc and I'm sure there would be more people willing to take $150,000/year to do open heart surgery on your loved one.
They want a socialistic system that doesn't reward the hardest workers. You're spinning your wheels at this point. They'd rather have a guy with an IQ of 80 doing open heart surgery v. the guy with an IQ of 160 as long as it's cost effective and "covered."
 

Bamabuzzard

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That's a system where people invest or buy into businesses or other ventures to supplement both their regular income and net worth.
What investments are out there that would provide a large enough guaranteed stream of monthly income to cover potential legal costs, claims being paid out etc? Or should they and their family just be willing to take that risk for $150K/year?

*If you know of an investment that would do the above. Do a brutha a solid and PM me, you know, doing the greater good for those of us sucka's who don't make $150K+/year.
 
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twofbyc

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It's easy to tell someone else to go spend anywhere between 10-15 additional years of their life in school to become a doctor, take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of personal educational loans, assume the risk of being personally sued if they make a mistake with someone's body. And do it for what someone managing a Kroger makes, in the name of the greater good. While everyone else isn't willing to make the same sacrifices in their own careers. I don't see anything wrong with a person who has the capabilities of being a great doctor. Deciding to go into another field of work, because after taking everything into consideration. It simply isn't worth it for them and their family. That doesn't make them a bad person. People who are capable of being doctors aren't morally obligated to be one.
And they shouldn’t be doctors just to make big money - if patient care is not their first priority, then they’re in the wrong profession.
Medical school costs are high because doctors make big money; if they didn’t make big money, not a lot of people would go - people dedicated to helping others might be the only students, and that’s not a bad thing. Kinda like teachers - their education doesn’t cost as much as a doctor, but most don’t make what your Kroger manager makes, either.
All that money doctors make doesn’t seem to keep them from killing themselves; I’d honestly like to know which country has the highest suicide rate among doctors, and which has the lowest.
I’ve got no problem with solving the medical school student loan problem, but I stand by my opinion:
Anyone who goes into the medical profession with the thought of getting rich taking precedence over the thought of helping others is going into the wrong profession.




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twofbyc

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What type "investments"? Also, since we've done away with insurance about four posts up. How do you address their ability to afford to pay for lawsuits filed against them? Without liability insurance they would have to be literally personally liable for any claims against them. Would these "investments" produce enough constant stream of income to cover that? Because at $150,000/year and doing no telling how many surgeries in any given year. There's no way they could save enough from that type income to cover legal cost of a claim filed against them. Would we have to now ask lawyers to lower their fees in the name of the greater good, so doctors can afford legal counsel?
If it’s Medicare for all the government should assume liability.


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twofbyc

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Some people are naive thinking many doctors aren’t making 2-3 times their medical incomes with outside investments right now.


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CrimsonNagus

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They want a socialistic system that doesn't reward the hardest workers. You're spinning your wheels at this point. They'd rather have a guy with an IQ of 80 doing open heart surgery v. the guy with an IQ of 160 as long as it's cost effective and "covered."
I just want affordable health care for all. No more $700 pills, no more $10,000 nights in a hospital. No more red tape, no more tax credits. Just freaking affordable health care. It shouldn’t be this hard to figure out.

If you think what we have now is affordable then you are either in denial, naive or you just don’t care.
 

chanson78

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I’ve got no problem with solving the medical school student loan problem, but I stand by my opinion:
Anyone who goes into the medical profession with the thought of getting rich taking precedence over the thought of helping others is going into the wrong profession.
Doctors, lawyers, and other high stress jobs are paid for their investment in themselves as well as their willingness to take on additional stress and risk that comes with the job. They literally have peoples lives in their hands. I have seen people who do things due to a so called "higher calling" and I think that largely resulted in the support base for our current POTUS. To say that people shouldn't be compensated for taking on the jobs that others are unwilling/unable to do seems destined to deteriorate the level of care for everyone. When someone gets cancer they don't go to the local Dr. that "got a calling" and decided they can beat cancer, they go to Mayo Clinic, or MD Anderson where the best of the best congregate. I'm also not sure that its fair to believe that people who go into medicine either have to pick altruism or greed. Many times, I think people enjoy the profession, as well as the ability to have a lifestyle commensurate with their investments into themselves.

On the flip side, there are plenty of medical professionals who still take the time out to see less lucrative Medicare/Medicaid patients because they know people need help and many times don't have alternatives.

It just seems to me that when you start arguing that certain professions don't deserve the pay rate that they have managed to work out, you are coming awfully close to removing any incentive for people to go for the risky/hard thing. Granted, as long as it isn't achieved through deception or shady practices, I personally have no problem with rewarding people for the hard work and time they have put in. Now, I will admit, I don't believe that large CEO's deserve their golden parachutes nor their 20M salary, so I will admit that I am being disingenuous just a smidge. If more people in America felt the same, they actually have the mechanism to change that through the shares they hold in various companies, so I am not sure it is exactly the same. Or maybe it is. Technically if people feel a Dr. charges too much they can try to find an alternative, but with the way insurance is today, I don't think most people actually know the true cost of care anymore.

There was as story in 2012 about an Alabama State Senator who got everyones knickers in a twist over comments he made in regards to teacher pay raises, 5 years after the legislature had given themselves a 67% pay raise.

This guy got rightly destroyed for his position on teacher pay.

AL state Sen. Shadrack McGill said:
It's a Biblical principle. If you double a teacher's pay scale, you'll attract people who aren't called to teach. To go in and raise someone's child for eight hours a day, or many people's children for eight hours a day, requires a calling. It better be a calling in your life. I know I wouldn't want to do it, OK?
Does every job require a calling in your opinion? Last I checked good deeds don't necessarily put food on the table or a roof over peoples heads.
 

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