Officiating - Bama vs. OU...

Re: Officiating Tonight

My concenr (and this is not a crimson-and-white or crimson-and-cream issue) was that the refs came dangerously close to losing control of the game.
Samia not getting a second personal foul because it would have resulted in an ejection is like the guy who murdered his parents pleading with the judge to take pity because he is now an orphan.
Dura lex, sed lex.

Re: Officiating Tonight

TIDE-HSV said:

While I'm asking, what do you make of the clip above of the DB tackling our receiver before the ball arrives, accounting for one of Tua's three incompletions, right in front of the official? Is the problem that Tua only had three incompletions, one of those being upon review? To Bama fans, it appears to be a huge leveling effort by the officials, even if unconscious, which I know you'd never admit...

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You can't tell anything for sure on plays like that on still photos. Just having hands on a player or a grasp of a jersey is not enough to determine if there is s foul. Too much context and impact is missing. The angle of the covering officials is also possibly different than these photos. No idea if the non ball was correct.

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Re: Officiating Tonight

TIDE-HSV said:

Oh boy! He doesn't just have a hand on his jersey. He is in the act of tackling our receiver before the ball ever arrives. Are you blind?

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In both pictures both players are upright so I have no idea anyone gets tackled. That's why I said context is important.

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Re: Officiating Tonight

B1GTide said:

When the police police themselves, we get explanations like this. The officials who make the calls get to grade officials making calls. That is crap. The calls are bogus. The stats back up just how bad it is. You see paranoia. I see an official making excuses.

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or getting paid/bought...

Re: Officiating Tonight

IndyBison said:

You can't tell anything for sure on plays like that on still photos. Just having hands on a player or a grasp of a jersey is not enough to determine if there is s foul. Too much context and impact is missing. The angle of the covering officials is also possibly different than these photos. No idea if the non ball was correct.

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Before commenting or answering questions, will you please watch the game to better answer questions than this?


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Re: Officiating Tonight

bamaga said:

This is on one play

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What is really bad, the side judge is right off screen at the bottom left watching the play. I put the photos in the wrong order, but the pas is thrown to Smith, but he couldn’t jump for it because the defender was holding him down, this was one of Tua’s incompletions. This was the stop they got after the field goal and they kicked off from the 10.

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The top image is like a tackle with both arms around the WR's waist/hip area and is not some minor grabbing. That's pass interference or at least def. holding.

Re: Officiating Tonight

IndyBison said:

It's likely not that they didn't see the fumble. It's that they didn't see the runner down in possession of the ball. That's when you rule the play dead. Another axiom used is "see leather". Make sure the ball is still in the runner's possession before ruling the ball dead. Otherwise you are likely to have an inadvertent whistle, the worst thing an official can do. Studies have shown 80% of the time when it's close to fumble or down the ball was fumbled. Thus the "when-in-doubt" is to rule fumble if you aren't absolutely certain either way. In games with replay it's easier to deal with overturning a fumble call than a runner down call that should have been a fumble.

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Yeah right. If they did “see the fumble” as you suggest, why did the officials seem completely surprised when the OU player came running out with the ball long after the play was over? They stood there looking at each other like they didn’t know whether to scratch their fanny or wind their watch. They were CLUELESS as to were the ball was.
So based on what your saying, it is ok to rule on something that you didn’t see? So if a ball is loose at the bottom of a pile, just call it a fumble, and sort it out later?

Funny, we have officials NOT ruling on flagrant things they SHOULD see, but they ARE ruling on things they probably didn’t see.

I’m not buying what your trying to sell. Go watch the replay.

Re: Officiating Tonight

TIDE-HSV said:

How can this possibly be legal?

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The only thing that picture shows is the defender has his hands on the receiver. That alone is not a foul. Has the pass been thrown? If it is has it been thrown to this receiver? Does the defense restrict movement of the receiver going back toward the pass (which could include a tackle) or does the receiver run through it without losing a step? Those are all factors that would determine if there is a foul on this play. I have no idea if there was.

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Re: Officiating Tonight

Indy, do you always visit TF and only post when we discuss officials or do you just happen to drop by when we discuss crappy officiating in big games?


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Re: Officiating Tonight

That's textbook DPI..................I've seen that called quite a few times in various games, and it should have been called.............

Re: Officiating Tonight

When Auburn got that touchdown called back for holding, I told my friends, "well... that's the last holding call we'll see this year."
As had been pointed out repeatedly, the data brought to light by the Michigan grad that showed that our opponents get called for holding once out of every 260 offensive snaps supported my opinion. Couple that with the data that shows that Alabama ranks dead last, or close to it, out of all of the teams in the FBS when it comes to opponents getting flagged for all fouls (not just offensive holding) and it's really difficult to see that there isn't some sort of bias in play.
Then you watch a game like last night's, and any lingering doubt goes out the window.
On several occasions, 6'7" 300+ Raekwon Davis looked like he was trying to get out of Jaylen Waddle's wetsuit as he tried to shed an OU lineman. There is no way on God's green Earth that holding couldn't be seen. The block in the back only got called because the Alabama sideline was having an apoplectic meltdown.
The call on Wills for being in the backfield would be comical if it weren't for the paint-peeling butt chewing I'm sure he got for it. Even more comical was the fact that Oklahoma linemen were consistently lined up in the backfield throughout the night. On one play that I paused as I watched the game on my DVR this morning with my youngest, I counted seven Oklahoma players in the backfield. Both tackles heads were completely behind the butt of the center and their outside feet were a good two yards off of the line of scrimmage.
As I watched, I couldn't help but think, "these are ACC officials. Clemson's in the ACC. Clemson would probably much rather play Oklahoma." Sorry, but I can only see our defensive linemen dragged to the ground so many times before my mind starts to head in that direction.

Re: Officiating Tonight

I enjoy reading your site because you guys are great fans and you generally appreciate answers about rules. Alabama is a similar style team and dynasty like the school I attended.

I'll answer questions but I won't get into debates because once it turns into a debate I'm not gong to change anyone's mind. And it's not important that I do. Fans are always going to side with their team and feel the officials and announcers hate their teams. I get that. Someone posted here that Oklahoma fans felt the officials cheated on behalf of Alabama. They watched the same game you guys did but had a completely opposite opinion. That is completely understandable.

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Re: Officiating Tonight

I have not read the entire post, so I may be repeating things already said. Also I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I did see some troubling things.

First, the officials were horrible. They were not kinda good nor were they ok. They were horrible.

Oklahoma #75 should have been ejected. He had two definitive personal fouls and several cheap shots. He was flagged only once. Any time there was a scuffle, there he was in the middle of it.

The conspiracy theorists out there have stated that an ACC crew was trying to let the teams get into a fight so players would be ejected and potentially suspended for the next game-helping Clemson. I don't know if there is any truth in this, but I am glad the Bama players were disciplined enough to not take the bait.