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  1. #14
    BamaNation All-American Intl.Aperture's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    From what I understand what you echo is what I hear other scouts and pundits pointing to as one of his few areas of improvement.

    If he hangs onto his pre-snap read he CAN be baited. The caveat is that he has the ability to come off of that and go elsewhere. He can and will read the entire defense after the snap, he just has to make himself do that. He has gotten caught out a few times hanging onto something when he should have moved on.

    I am not sure how detrimental this particular aspect of his game will be against Clemson's secondary. In my opinion, while I agree with your particular critique, I think Tua's success will depend more on the game-plan we implement in order to thwart Clemson's front 7.

    Tua's ability to make additional reads after the snap could be irrlevant if the O-line doesn't do their job OR if the play calls aren't suitable.

    I think more rides on the coaching staff and the execution this week rather than that individual aspect of Tua's game. I think the staff will be able to look at the MSU game and the GA game and implement a better scheme to help us impose our will on a very talented defensive front unit.

    If it were me (and thank the Lord Jesus in heaven that it isn't) I'd take my chances with max protection and bet the house on our WR's versus their DB's. I firmly believe that if Tua Tagovailoa and these receivers are given time, there isn't anything anybody can do to stop them. The rub is the same as it always is - can they pressure Tua and can we prevent them from pressuring Tua.

    If he stays clean, it doesn't matter. It's over. The battle is in the trenches against Clemson. Very curious to see what wrinkles we have against them as well.
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  3. #15
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    I think some of you are taking my post wrong. I am not bashing Tua or not giving him enormous credit for what he has accomplished this year. What I am saying comes from years of coaching as a DC. I am no where near the level of coach that both Bama and CU have but I can tell you without a doubt the things I would do based on watching the games and tape of his tendencies. OU doesnt count. Their defense is horrible and had zero chance in stopping us. As Saban said we only stopped ourselves. CU will be much different. There will be 6-8 cruicial 3rd downs in this game coming up. There will be much more pressure in the pocket. And the defense will be light years more prepared and ready than OUs was.

    I want a 50 pt win next week but I am not betting the house on that. OU’s offense scared me, CU’s does not. Now their defense is a different story and that is what will determine this game. Their D vs our O. There are tendencies that Tua has and needs to break from time to time imo. He is a great QB but he is still learning and improving each day.

    As for my interjecting of my opinion and thoughts, I am pretty sure thats why we have message boards and not just regurgitate what the masses think and say over and over. I predict us winning by 8-12 points. But it for some reason we dont, I would bet the house its due to untimely turnovers or 2-3 game changing plays that CU’s defense makes based on their preporation and film study.
    I guess I'm not really sure what tendencies you're referring to. In your original post you mention Tua goes to his pre snap read to often. Well, that's exactly what he's supposed to do. Throw it to the receiver who should be open based on the pre snap read. Tua is taking into account what happens once the ball is snapped and not just mindlessly making up his decision to throw it to a certain player no matter what. Second, it seems as though you're saying Tua shouldn't look off safeties. In your post you say Tua "will look one way and throw the other way" which is how one looks off a safety. It's not as if he looks one way and then just chunks the ball the other way hoping a defender isn't there. He knows where the defense is based on alignment and movement during the play. Lastly, the slants are mostly run pass options. On those plays Tua reads the linebackers. If the linebackers vacate the space then he pulls the ball and throws the slant. Otherwise the RB gets the ball. I'm not trying to talk down to you since I'm sure you know how RPOs work but if it was as easy as dropping defensive lineman in coverage to stop Alabama's offense then some teams would have already done that. I do agree with you about the UGA game in a sense. Tua should have hit the checkdowns a lot more often than he did because they were wide open as UGA took away the deep and intermediate passes. I buy that Tua needs to checkdown the ball more often but not on the other things you mentioned..

  4. #16
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Skeeterpop's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    I think it's almost impossible to bait him. No one has succeeded yet. He has rattlesnake reflexes, backed up by an equally quick release. Trying to bait him will more likely get the defense burned than not...
    You may be correct. But I would say that GA baited him into one of the two INTs and should have had another where the defender played off with the intent to crash hard on the play for an INT and just missed it. I hope you are right and we walk away with it next week.

  5. #17
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    I expect that the shorter routes will be the primary option on most plays in this game. Tua goes through his progressions as they are outlined. It just happens that many of Alabama's play calls have the deep routes as the #1 option.

    Tua is going to be great in this game. I can't wait.

  6. #18
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    You may be correct. But I would say that GA baited him into one of the two INTs and should have had another where the defender played off with the intent to crash hard on the play for an INT and just missed it. I hope you are right and we walk away with it next week.
    You realize that Tua had a high ankle sprain from the first series? It severely limited his mobility in the pocket and overall throwing ability. Just throw that game out in the analysis of Tua this year. It's irrelevant because of the injury..

  7. #19
    BamaNation Hall of Fame bamaga's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
    to 16 and beyond........

  8. #20
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Skeeterpop's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intl.Aperture View Post
    From what I understand what you echo is what I hear other scouts and pundits pointing to as one of his few areas of improvement.

    If he hangs onto his pre-snap read he CAN be baited. The caveat is that he has the ability to come off of that and go elsewhere. He can and will read the entire defense after the snap, he just has to make himself do that. He has gotten caught out a few times hanging onto something when he should have moved on.

    I am not sure how detrimental this particular aspect of his game will be against Clemson's secondary. In my opinion, while I agree with your particular critique, I think Tua's success will depend more on the game-plan we implement in order to thwart Clemson's front 7.

    Tua's ability to make additional reads after the snap could be irrlevant if the O-line doesn't do their job OR if the play calls aren't suitable.

    I think more rides on the coaching staff and the execution this week rather than that individual aspect of Tua's game. I think the staff will be able to look at the MSU game and the GA game and implement a better scheme to help us impose our will on a very talented defensive front unit.

    If it were me (and thank the Lord Jesus in heaven that it isn't) I'd take my chances with max protection and bet the house on our WR's versus their DB's. I firmly believe that if Tua Tagovailoa and these receivers are given time, there isn't anything anybody can do to stop them. The rub is the same as it always is - can they pressure Tua and can we prevent them from pressuring Tua.

    If he stays clean, it doesn't matter. It's over. The battle is in the trenches against Clemson. Very curious to see what wrinkles we have against them as well.
    Agreed 100%. He has this skill and uses it often. I just feel on crucial downs he relies too much on the presnap read and does not confirm with his eyes after the snap before his release. Dont get me wrong. Sometimes the presnap read is so wide open its a no brainer. But I have seen him make several throws, most of which were successful, purely off the presnap read and the windows were much tighter after the snap because the defense made an adjustment. We are splitting hair here to find his weaknesses. But that is what you try to do when you are looking to stop an elite QB. I agree the pressure he faces in this game is the key to everything.

  9. #21
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamaga View Post
    My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
    Remember that Tua was beat up going into that game. His mobility was at a season low against MSU.

  10. #22
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CajunCrimson's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by bamaga View Post
    My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
    Tua'a health was not the best vs LSU or State.....much different scenario playing out next week.
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  11. #23
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Skeeterpop's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Has anyone else noticed the unusual responses from Tua about his ankle the last several days and following the OU game?

    Its almost like he is going out of his way to let everyone one know he is not 100% and its still bothering him. A couple weeks ago he ways saying he was fine and going to be 100%. It feels like its gamemanship that coach Saban is playing with CU so they are forced to spend a little extra time planning for Hurts. Maybe I am reading into this too much but it surprises me that he does not just say, I am fine or will be ready. He is giving a lot of extra details that feels unnatural to me. Itís definitely a deviation from his past interviews during the season when we all know he was hurt and he kept saying he was ok.

  12. #24
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

    However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

    I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

    Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
    tua's QBR in the oklahoma game was 96.4.....

  13. #25
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Has anyone else noticed the unusual responses from Tua about his ankle the last several days and following the OU game?

    Its almost like he is going out of his way to let everyone one know he is not 100% and its still bothering him. A couple weeks ago he ways saying he was fine and going to be 100%. It feels like its gamemanship that coach Saban is playing with CU so they are forced to spend a little extra time planning for Hurts. Maybe I am reading into this too much but it surprises me that he does not just say, I am fine or will be ready. He is giving a lot of extra details that feels unnatural to me. It’s definitely a deviation from his past interviews during the season when we all know he was hurt and he kept saying he was ok.
    Take a deep breath, everything will be fine. Tua is the best QB getting the best coaching.

  14. #26
    BamaNation All-American edwd58's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    So we go 14-0 doing what Tua does and now we need to change who and what we are? I'd rather do what we do best and if it isn't good enough, then so be it.

    My son played HS soccer and they made it to the State title game. They played an aggressive, high pressure style soccer all season. The night before the title game our coach decided thay needed to play more of a 'draw a line in the sand' defend/repel style. The kids left that meeting confused and shaking their heads. Yep, they got waxed the next day, not by a far superior foe, but because their coach didn't believe they were good enough and told them so with his decision. Our kids may have lost anyway, but they would rather have lost playing what they felt was their best style.
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