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  1. #27
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    this fanbases expectations are wild. tua is the best QB in SEC history. he is the most efficient and accurate qb who has ever played college football. his pre snap read ability is that of a borderline pro bowl QB. teams in the NFL will tank for him. he is fine. we are fine. everything is fine.

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  3. #28
    BamaNation Hall of Fame Skeeterpop's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Tua is great. And he can get much better. That was my point of this thread. How can he continue to improve. This is how I feel he can improve even on being the most efficient QB ever. I am not comfortable resting on the past and saying we got this. I think you always have to keep working to get better and better. And this next game we will have to be better to be successful.

  4. #29
    BamaNation Hall of Fame JBama_in_PCOLA's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Just can't mess with the formula. With that being said, looking at the formula for Oklahoma we can do just about anything we want. Quick strike, slow it down, slants, over the top. Just play Bama football.

  5. #30
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Tua is great. And he can get much better. That was my point of this thread. How can he continue to improve. This is how I feel he can improve even on being the most efficient QB ever. I am not comfortable resting on the past and saying we got this. I think you always have to keep working to get better and better. And this next game we will have to be better to be successful.
    the title of the thread is "tua needs to break tendencies for a title" which is patently false.

  6. #31
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Granted it was against OU's porous defense, but Tua did a much better job of taking what the defense gave him, instead of going for the homerun on every throw. I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I don't believe there's team in CFB that cover all our receivers, TE, and, RB's out of the backfield consistently. We literally have NFL caliber players at every single skill position on offense this year.
    We've never been able to say that before.

    I have watched the replay a couple of times and I kept hearing Herbie lament OU not taking away the slants. If OU had squatted on those routes, they would have seen Jeudy, Smith, or Smith streaking down the field wide open on a double move. OU chose to try to keep everything in front of them and make us drive the field, and for the most part, we did that very well.
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  7. #32
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmmiller711 View Post
    the title of the thread is "tua needs to break tendencies for a title" which is patently false.
    For much of the season I thought that it was Tua's tendencies that had him throwing so many deep passes. We learned in one of the Film Room episodes that this was not true. We learned that the primary read on many play calls is the deep route, and that Tua was making the choice based on the correct read. I was wrong. Tua follows the progressions, deep to short, and takes what is given to him.

    But what I do believe he needs to work on is his tendency to want to take that deep route when it is there, even if he doesn't have time to do so. Sometimes he simply doesn't have time because the defense is in his face and he needs to drop that pass off, even if the deep throw is there. When he holds it too long, he takes a beating.

  8. #33
    BamaNation All-SEC gman4tide's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Dont try to fix something that aint broke....

  9. #34
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by B1GTide View Post
    For much of the season I thought that it was Tua's tendencies that had him throwing so many deep passes. We learned in one of the Film Room episodes that this was not true. We learned that the primary read on many play calls is the deep route, and that Tua was making the choice based on the correct read. I was wrong. Tua follows the progressions, deep to short, and takes what is given to him.

    But what I do believe he needs to work on is his tendency to want to take that deep route when it is there, even if he doesn't have time to do so. Sometimes he simply doesn't have time because the defense is in his face and he needs to drop that pass off, even if the deep throw is there. When he holds it too long, he takes a beating.
    he certainly can improve his clock. he was born a month before petyon manning was drafted. he has a looooooong and successful football career ahead and will continue to develop. my point is that saying "tua NEEDS to" do anything in order to give alabama good enough QB play to win a title is absurd. alabama has won 5 titles in 9 years with qb play not even in the hemisphere of what tua has provided. if bama cant win a title with that guy playing like he's played, we do not deserve to be here.

  10. #35
    BamaNation All-American Intl.Aperture's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

    Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

    I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

    But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

    Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

    Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

    HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

    The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

    Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
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  11. #36
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intl.Aperture View Post
    I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

    Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

    I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

    But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

    Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

    Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

    HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

    The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

    Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
    i dont think the "tua is fine" (i.e. me) crowd is saying that he is beyond improvement or criticism. The rub is when someone suggests that this team needs better QB play to win. they do not. if they do, tua is certainly not the problem. Tua is so so so much better than anyone else that has ever played the position at UA. we are so deep into picking nits of our team that we're looking at maybe the best college football player of all time and saying he needs to improve to win a game. if we cant beat clemson with him, how badly would they beat us without him? if we cant beat clemson with him, we have much much much bigger problems than 13

  12. #37
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Intl.Aperture View Post
    I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

    Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

    I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

    But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

    Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

    Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

    HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

    The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

    Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
    The problem with the first post is that it reads as if Tua should stop looking off safeties and making reads on RPOs. If that's the case let's go back to the I formation and only pass using play action with 1 WR in the route and max protect. This offense is higher risk but higher reward and TBH there's been virtually no risk IRT the offense this year. So it's basically been a low risk high reward offense. Yes, Tua can improve just like any person walking planet earth but the title and first post are not worded correctly.

    If Tua needs to "break his tendencies" then WTH did our past QBs need to do? Just be broken completely?

  13. #38
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by crimsonforce View Post
    the problem with the first post is that it reads as if tua should stop looking off safeties and making reads on rpos. If that's the case let's go back to the i formation and only pass using play action with 1 wr in the route and max protect. This offense is higher risk but higher reward and tbh there's been virtually no risk irt the offense this year. So it's basically been a low risk high reward offense. Yes, tua can improve just like any person walking planet earth but the title and first post are not worded correctly.

    if tua needs to "break his tendencies" then wth did our past qbs need to do? just be broken completely?
    exactly. Thank you. the most efficient quarterback who has ever played college football.

  14. #39
    BamaNation Hall of Fame B1GTide's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    I thought that it was interesting that Tua, today, said that his decision making slipped in the second half of the season. He is learning and self-scouting. He knows that he can improve, and he is working on it all the time.

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