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  1. #66
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbama View Post
    I would like to see him be a tiny bit more conservative when he gets pressure. He did it very effectively in the OU game. He quickly hit his outlet receiver because he saw the blitz. Too many times this year he does the twirl and tries to do too much instead of throwing the ball away. That is why he got injured in the UG game. That is something he will learn. He has a "turbo" speed on reading his progressions and he can put that to use when he is being pressured. He hasn't quite yet learned to throw it away and take the next play. This also pertains to the play calls. If our OC expects a lot of pressure we need to have outlets for Tua to use to reduce the potential of a negative play. IMHO, that is the only weakness I see with TUA and I am convinced that he will learn to minimize that as he gets more and more experience.
    Um, how many sacks did he take? I lost count...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  2. #67
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

    However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

    I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

    Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
    I don't buy it. Might be different if Tua was that obvious, or looked down the receiver all the way. That's not the case. It's kind of like saying Tua has a tendency to pass Left handed.
    Sarcasm aside I don't really see much of a problem.
    I wouldn't use Tua's Georgia game last year as a trend.
    I'm not sure any Georgia game makes a trend.
    Last year Georgia didn't prepare for Tua.
    This year Georgia didn't prepare for Jalen.
    If there is a trend in both years I'd say it's Kirby only preparing his team for one Quarterback.

  3. #68
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

    However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

    I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

    Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
    Yeah he has a tendency to make great passes and win, he must stop that bahahahahahahaha Until someone stops him he needs to change nothing. They know it is coming yet cannot stop him. he throws where only our guy can get it, why change a winning formula?

  4. #69
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Wow, really folks it's very simple. With a healthy Tua if Bama plays it's A game we win!
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  5. #70
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    An essential part of our pre-playoff work is "self-scouting" by coaches and/or analysts. What are our trends/tendencies on both sides of the ball. This has to include player performance tendencies as well. I cannot imagine our coaches have not already identified this tendency.
    "The greatest evil in the world is not 'not knowing;' it is not knowing that you do not know." Alfred North Whitehead

  6. #71
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padreruf View Post
    An essential part of our pre-playoff work is "self-scouting" by coaches and/or analysts. What are our trends/tendencies on both sides of the ball. This has to include player performance tendencies as well. I cannot imagine our coaches have not already identified this tendency.
    Look - it's not even a "tendency." Again, this thread is based on a fallacy. The fallacy is that he's turning and firing blind, after having baited the opposing safety. This is simply not true. If you don't believe me, go back and look at the TD pass in the NCG and watch him check out the safety quickly before firing. This fear that he can be counter-baited is totally fabricated from whole cloth. I guess people simply have to worry about something. However, I'll be fair. If anyone can come up with one single example in all the hundreds of passes he's thrown, then I'll concede that it's a real problem and not just imaginary...
    Last edited by TIDE-HSV; January 1st, 2019 at 10:25 AM.
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

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  7. #72
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    I simply cannot believe this thread and this thread title, not to mention a discussion which takes the title seriously, when a QB has thrown over 300 passes on the year with 4 INTs...
    "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - Ellen Parr"

    'If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today?' - Steve Jobs

    I would rather live my life as if there is a god and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is. Albert Camus

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

  8. #73
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    I simply cannot believe this thread and this thread title, not to mention a discussion which takes the title seriously, when a QB has thrown over 300 passes on the year with 4 INTs...
    Yeah...there is one tendency I want Tua to CONTINUE....Not playing in the 4th quarter because we are up by 40 in third. And it would be perfectly fine with me if that was the case on next Monday night.

  9. #74
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    Has anyone else noticed the unusual responses from Tua about his ankle the last several days and following the OU game?

    Its almost like he is going out of his way to let everyone one know he is not 100% and its still bothering him. A couple weeks ago he ways saying he was fine and going to be 100%. It feels like its gamemanship that coach Saban is playing with CU so they are forced to spend a little extra time planning for Hurts. Maybe I am reading into this too much but it surprises me that he does not just say, I am fine or will be ready. He is giving a lot of extra details that feels unnatural to me. Its definitely a deviation from his past interviews during the season when we all know he was hurt and he kept saying he was ok.
    I watched the game with an ortho surgeon who operates on college athletes. He said that Tua's ankle will absolutely swell up and hurt after the game. ITs to be expected one month after the surgery. But said he should be fine by game time.

  10. #75
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonForce View Post
    Dude had 4 TD passes and 3 incompletions and he needs to break tendencies? You referenced the first big time game he played in as a true freshman in which he made one of the greatest throws in college football history and then another game in which he tried to gut it out with a high ankle sprain. I'm not following..
    Yep hard to say he suffers at all with the numbers he put up against the best defenses in the nation week in and week out. Murray faced Big12 competition where they refuse to play defense and Lawrence plays in the ACC where they can't even recruit defensive players. Tua has done it against the best and he needs to change things? I agree with CrimsonForce, it's hard to say Tua needs to change ANYTHING. His only struggle was against Georgia this year and Miss State in which both games he was hurt. That's the only way to slow him down is to hit him in the knees or hurt his ankle. That's the ONLY WAY you slow Tua down.

    I'm sorry but I would take the "normal Tua" that we've seen all year on the 7th than I would like to see a new Tua who has totally changed his game around because the normal Tua cannot be stopped unless Clemson hits him in the knees all night like MSU did.
    I need you out there slinging coconuts and pineapples!

  11. #76
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by TIDE-HSV View Post
    Look - it's not even a "tendency." Again, this thread is based on a fallacy. The fallacy is that he's turning and firing blind, after having baited the opposing safety. This is simply not true. If you don't believe me, go back and look at the TD pass in the NCG and watch him check out the safety quickly before firing. This fear that he can be counter-baited is totally fabricated from whole cloth. I guess people simply have to worry about something. However, I'll be fair. If anyone can come up with one single example in all the hundreds of passes he's thrown, then I'll concede that it's a real problem and not just imaginary...
    This will be my last post in this thread. It was my intent to create a thread that would get lots of discussion from both sides while identifying there are some obvious tendencies with pre-reads. Please go back and read all my post. Not once did I ever say Tua needed to revamp or change his style of play. I even spelled it out and said he needs to break these tendencies by doing 1-2 plays differently. That is not changing his style or play making ability. I have listened to numerous other analyst, coaches and QBs say this exact same thing over the last couple of weeks.

    I recently sat at the same table directly across from two former and one current Pro Bowl NFL QBs in the last month who brought this subject up and listened as they identified his pre-reads could come back to bite him if he does not change it up some on key downs.

    Not once did I call anyone in this thread an idiot nor infer they were because we had differing opinions.

    I respect your dedication and knowledge Earl as much as anyone on this board and hope you will understand I say this will compete respect. Your breakdown of the NC game winning play and how Tua checked before throwing is inaccurate. He may or may not have looked to see where the safety was, we dont know. But what we do know for a fact was he rotated his hips and set his feet to make the throw before ever starting his head turn to the left side. This observation and exact comment came directly from a 3 multi time pro bowl NFL QBs, not me. But after rewatching several times they were exactly correct. He did all the mechanics for the throw before turning his head. He know exactly where he was throwing and was counting on his receiver to beat his man to that spot.

    I give Tua credit for being the best gifted QB Bama has ever had. And he is going to even get better. I wanted him at QB last year but am glad things worked out the way they did for a number of reasons. Once again my reason for the thread was based on years of coaching defenses and being around the college game and coaches for decades. I am always lookimg for tendencies and ways to beat oposing teams as well as our own teams weaknesses or tendencies.

    I apologize for creating a thread that seems to have sparked so much negativity. That was not my intent and I will keep future volitile personal thoughts and feedback from fellow friends and experts of the game to myself. I want to contribute to the board not create discourse. This thread obviously did the later for several people so I apologize.
    Last edited by Skeeterpop; January 1st, 2019 at 03:20 PM.

  12. #77
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    This will be my last post in this thread. It was my intent to create a thread that would get lots of discussion from both sides while identifying there are some obvious tendencies with pre-reads. Please go back and read all my post. Not once did I ever say Tua needed to revamp or change his style of play. I even spelled it out and said he needs to break these tendencies by doing 1-2 plays differently. That is not changing his style or play making ability. I have listened to numerous other analyst, coaches and QBs say this exact same thing over the last couple of weeks.

    I recently sat at the same table directly across from two former and one current Pro Bowl NFL QBs in the last month who brought this subject up and listened as they identified his pre-reads could come back to bite him if he does not change it up some on key downs.

    Not once did I call anyone in this thread an idiot nor infer they were because we had differing opinions.

    I respect your dedication and knowledge Earl as much as anyone on this board and hope you will understand I say this will compete respect. Your breakdown of the NC game winning play and how Tua checked before throwing is inaccurate. He may or may not have looked to see where the safety was, we dont know. But what we do know for a fact was he rotated his hips and set his feet to make the throw before ever starting his head turn to the left side. This observation and exact comment came directly from a 3 multi time pro bowl NFL QBs, not me. But after rewatching several times they were exactly correct. He did all the mechanics for the throw before turning his head. He know exactly where he was throwing and was counting on his receiver to beat his man to that spot.

    I give Tua credit for being the best gifted QB Bama has ever had. And he is going to even get better. I wanted him at QB last year but am glad things worked out the way they did for a number of reasons. Once again my reason for the thread was based on years of coaching defenses and being around the college game and coaches for decades. I am always lookimg for tendencies and ways to beat oposing teams as well as our own teams weaknesses or tendencies.

    I apologize for creating a thread that seems to have sparked so much negativity. That was not my intent and I will keep future volitile personal thoughts and feedback from fellow friends and experts of the game to myself. I want to contribute to the board not create discourse. This thread obviously did the later for several people so I apologize.
    Personally, I would have given your OP more thought if you had mentioned the conversations of the NFL QBs. I would like to know all of the specifics of what they were saying, too.

    But we didn't know that. Instead, we got a post that reads more like an Eeyore trying to find any flaw possible. Thus, the responses in the thread bringing up all of Tua's accomplishments and stats to this point.
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  13. #78
    BamaNation Hall of Fame CrimsonForce's Avatar
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    Re: Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeterpop View Post
    This will be my last post in this thread. It was my intent to create a thread that would get lots of discussion from both sides while identifying there are some obvious tendencies with pre-reads. Please go back and read all my post. Not once did I ever say Tua needed to revamp or change his style of play. I even spelled it out and said he needs to break these tendencies by doing 1-2 plays differently. That is not changing his style or play making ability. I have listened to numerous other analyst, coaches and QBs say this exact same thing over the last couple of weeks.

    I recently sat at the same table directly across from two former and one current Pro Bowl NFL QBs in the last month who brought this subject up and listened as they identified his pre-reads could come back to bite him if he does not change it up some on key downs.

    Not once did I call anyone in this thread an idiot nor infer they were because we had differing opinions.

    I respect your dedication and knowledge Earl as much as anyone on this board and hope you will understand I say this will compete respect. Your breakdown of the NC game winning play and how Tua checked before throwing is inaccurate. He may or may not have looked to see where the safety was, we don’t know. But what we do know for a fact was he rotated his hips and set his feet to make the throw before ever starting his head turn to the left side. This observation and exact comment came directly from a 3 multi time pro bowl NFL QBs, not me. But after rewatching several times they were exactly correct. He did all the mechanics for the throw before turning his head. He know exactly where he was throwing and was counting on his receiver to beat his man to that spot.

    I give Tua credit for being the best gifted QB Bama has ever had. And he is going to even get better. I wanted him at QB last year but am glad things worked out the way they did for a number of reasons. Once again my reason for the thread was based on years of coaching defenses and being around the college game and coaches for decades. I am always lookimg for tendencies and ways to beat oposing teams as well as our own teams weaknesses or tendencies.

    I apologize for creating a thread that seems to have sparked so much negativity. That was not my intent and I will keep future volitile personal thoughts and feedback from fellow friends and experts of the game to myself. I want to contribute to the board not create discourse. This thread obviously did the later for several people so I apologize.
    A couple of things:

    -If you have articles or something else of analysts, coaches, QBs etc. saying this then linking those in the OP would be helpful. Especially when it's on a topic as subjective as this one.

    -Your pro bowl QB friends may be right IRT scouting Tua for the NFL. Yes, as an NFL prospect he can improve on a lot of things. As a college QB (which is all we really care about right now) he's statistically the best to ever do it. I feel like most of the things you're bringing up are IRT Tua playing in the NFL where the coverages are expertly disguised. UGA was playing cover 2 most of the game which is a very basic coverage. Once the safety on the left side of the field didn't immediately shade to Devonta Smith the play was over. Whether Tua physically looked at D Smith wide open or not doesn't matter. Based on Cover 2 and the safeties movement to the middle of the field at the snap the play was over. Tua doesn't really need to be any more proficient at reads in the college game. In the NFL he will need to improve some..

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