Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

Skeeterpop

Hall of Fame
Jul 18, 2008
5,651
27
67
Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
 

Bama_N_Va

1st Team
Aug 16, 2017
984
1,063
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Interesting take. Lets hope we got a few counters up our sleeves to your points. I look for a big game from both Jalen and Tua...
 

CajunCrimson

Moderator (FB,BB) and Vinyl Enthusiast
Staff member
Mar 13, 2001
26,506
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337
Breaux Bridge, La
We change our passing approach based on the defense we are playing.....

He may not throw one slant next Monday....or he may throw 50.....

That's why they make millions to coach and we make nothing to critique
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
Dude had 4 TD passes and 3 incompletions and he needs to break tendencies? You referenced the first big time game he played in as a true freshman in which he made one of the greatest throws in college football history and then another game in which he tried to gut it out with a high ankle sprain. I'm not following..
 

jcabama

1st Team
Jul 19, 2004
499
243
62
Bonaire GA
I'm not sure how to mess with success. What he did Sat--26 of 29 (and two of the misses were only overturned on replay!) was nothing short of spectacular--even against air! Until Clemson shows me differently I'm good with his judgement and reads. That said, I also wouldn't be surprised if their own self-scouting lead him/them to do a little baiting of their own. He is truly an artist when he's healthy! RTR!
 

mlh

All-American
Apr 28, 2004
3,072
1,246
182
We change our passing approach based on the defense we are playing.....

He may not throw one slant next Monday....or he may throw 50.....

That's why they make millions to coach and we make nothing to critique
I think our OCs will have a good game plan to attack Clemson's weakness. I really like the development of our QBs and I think Coach Enos has done a great job, especially in Jalen's development. I'm much less concerned about injury to Tua after seeing how well Jalen has played.
 

Power Eye

All-SEC
Aug 3, 2005
1,146
1,217
187
47
The one tendency that he needs to break is his reluctancy to throw the ball away. Against Oklahoma, he didn’t get pressured enough for it to be a problem, but Clemson will be a different animal.

I’m sure he has had several throw-aways this year, but honestly, I don’t remember any. This could be a problem against the best pass rush he’s faced, and could result in turnovers.
 

Texas_tide

Scout Team
Oct 16, 2018
122
0
0
I was disappointed he missed a wide open josh Jacobs. Didn’t read the backer.

But he got a TD on next pass. A slant
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
The one tendency that he needs to break is his reluctancy to throw the ball away. Against Oklahoma, he didn’t get pressured enough for it to be a problem, but Clemson will be a different animal.

I’m sure he has had several throw-aways this year, but honestly, I don’t remember any. This could be a problem against the best pass rush he’s faced, and could result in turnovers.
I would say throw the ball away or check it down. To often Tua looks for the homerun when D Harris or Jacobs are wide open in the flat. Take the free 10+ yards and move on to the next play. Small complaint in the grand scheme of things..
 

DrollTide

All-SEC
Oct 18, 2008
1,608
846
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Hunts Patch
There is one thing that he has stopped doing, which is a good thing. With his back to the pass rush, he looks over one shoulder then suddenly circles the other way. Against Georgia, they were perfectly ready for it, and it was the play that got him injured. It was the same move he used to throw a TD against Vandy a year ago, and I've seen it a couple of other times. It is a great move, a signature move, but once it is on tape it is fairly easy to defend.
 

Skeeterpop

Hall of Fame
Jul 18, 2008
5,651
27
67
I think some of you are taking my post wrong. I am not bashing Tua or not giving him enormous credit for what he has accomplished this year. What I am saying comes from years of coaching as a DC. I am no where near the level of coach that both Bama and CU have but I can tell you without a doubt the things I would do based on watching the games and tape of his tendencies. OU doesnt count. Their defense is horrible and had zero chance in stopping us. As Saban said we only stopped ourselves. CU will be much different. There will be 6-8 cruicial 3rd downs in this game coming up. There will be much more pressure in the pocket. And the defense will be light years more prepared and ready than OUs was.

I want a 50 pt win next week but I am not betting the house on that. OU’s offense scared me, CU’s does not. Now their defense is a different story and that is what will determine this game. Their D vs our O. There are tendencies that Tua has and needs to break from time to time imo. He is a great QB but he is still learning and improving each day.

As for my interjecting of my opinion and thoughts, I am pretty sure thats why we have message boards and not just regurgitate what the masses think and say over and over. I predict us winning by 8-12 points. But it for some reason we dont, I would bet the house its due to untimely turnovers or 2-3 game changing plays that CU’s defense makes based on their preporation and film study.
 

TIDE-HSV

Senior Administrator
Staff member
Oct 13, 1999
84,527
39,615
437
Huntsville, AL,USA
Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
I think it's almost impossible to bait him. No one has succeeded yet. He has rattlesnake reflexes, backed up by an equally quick release. Trying to bait him will more likely get the defense burned than not...
 

Intl.Aperture

All-American
Aug 12, 2015
3,681
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Chesapeake, Virginia
From what I understand what you echo is what I hear other scouts and pundits pointing to as one of his few areas of improvement.

If he hangs onto his pre-snap read he CAN be baited. The caveat is that he has the ability to come off of that and go elsewhere. He can and will read the entire defense after the snap, he just has to make himself do that. He has gotten caught out a few times hanging onto something when he should have moved on.

I am not sure how detrimental this particular aspect of his game will be against Clemson's secondary. In my opinion, while I agree with your particular critique, I think Tua's success will depend more on the game-plan we implement in order to thwart Clemson's front 7.

Tua's ability to make additional reads after the snap could be irrlevant if the O-line doesn't do their job OR if the play calls aren't suitable.

I think more rides on the coaching staff and the execution this week rather than that individual aspect of Tua's game. I think the staff will be able to look at the MSU game and the GA game and implement a better scheme to help us impose our will on a very talented defensive front unit.

If it were me (and thank the Lord Jesus in heaven that it isn't) I'd take my chances with max protection and bet the house on our WR's versus their DB's. I firmly believe that if Tua Tagovailoa and these receivers are given time, there isn't anything anybody can do to stop them. The rub is the same as it always is - can they pressure Tua and can we prevent them from pressuring Tua.

If he stays clean, it doesn't matter. It's over. The battle is in the trenches against Clemson. Very curious to see what wrinkles we have against them as well.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
I think some of you are taking my post wrong. I am not bashing Tua or not giving him enormous credit for what he has accomplished this year. What I am saying comes from years of coaching as a DC. I am no where near the level of coach that both Bama and CU have but I can tell you without a doubt the things I would do based on watching the games and tape of his tendencies. OU doesnt count. Their defense is horrible and had zero chance in stopping us. As Saban said we only stopped ourselves. CU will be much different. There will be 6-8 cruicial 3rd downs in this game coming up. There will be much more pressure in the pocket. And the defense will be light years more prepared and ready than OUs was.

I want a 50 pt win next week but I am not betting the house on that. OU’s offense scared me, CU’s does not. Now their defense is a different story and that is what will determine this game. Their D vs our O. There are tendencies that Tua has and needs to break from time to time imo. He is a great QB but he is still learning and improving each day.

As for my interjecting of my opinion and thoughts, I am pretty sure thats why we have message boards and not just regurgitate what the masses think and say over and over. I predict us winning by 8-12 points. But it for some reason we dont, I would bet the house its due to untimely turnovers or 2-3 game changing plays that CU’s defense makes based on their preporation and film study.
I guess I'm not really sure what tendencies you're referring to. In your original post you mention Tua goes to his pre snap read to often. Well, that's exactly what he's supposed to do. Throw it to the receiver who should be open based on the pre snap read. Tua is taking into account what happens once the ball is snapped and not just mindlessly making up his decision to throw it to a certain player no matter what. Second, it seems as though you're saying Tua shouldn't look off safeties. In your post you say Tua "will look one way and throw the other way" which is how one looks off a safety. It's not as if he looks one way and then just chunks the ball the other way hoping a defender isn't there. He knows where the defense is based on alignment and movement during the play. Lastly, the slants are mostly run pass options. On those plays Tua reads the linebackers. If the linebackers vacate the space then he pulls the ball and throws the slant. Otherwise the RB gets the ball. I'm not trying to talk down to you since I'm sure you know how RPOs work but if it was as easy as dropping defensive lineman in coverage to stop Alabama's offense then some teams would have already done that. I do agree with you about the UGA game in a sense. Tua should have hit the checkdowns a lot more often than he did because they were wide open as UGA took away the deep and intermediate passes. I buy that Tua needs to checkdown the ball more often but not on the other things you mentioned..
 

Skeeterpop

Hall of Fame
Jul 18, 2008
5,651
27
67
I think it's almost impossible to bait him. No one has succeeded yet. He has rattlesnake reflexes, backed up by an equally quick release. Trying to bait him will more likely get the defense burned than not...
You may be correct. But I would say that GA baited him into one of the two INTs and should have had another where the defender played off with the intent to crash hard on the play for an INT and just missed it. I hope you are right and we walk away with it next week.
 

B1GTide

TideFans Legend
Apr 13, 2012
45,499
46,842
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I expect that the shorter routes will be the primary option on most plays in this game. Tua goes through his progressions as they are outlined. It just happens that many of Alabama's play calls have the deep routes as the #1 option.

Tua is going to be great in this game. I can't wait.
 

CrimsonForce

Hall of Fame
Dec 20, 2012
12,757
94
67
You may be correct. But I would say that GA baited him into one of the two INTs and should have had another where the defender played off with the intent to crash hard on the play for an INT and just missed it. I hope you are right and we walk away with it next week.
You realize that Tua had a high ankle sprain from the first series? It severely limited his mobility in the pocket and overall throwing ability. Just throw that game out in the analysis of Tua this year. It's irrelevant because of the injury..
 

bamaga

Hall of Fame
Apr 29, 2002
13,378
8,238
282
JAWJA
My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
 

Skeeterpop

Hall of Fame
Jul 18, 2008
5,651
27
67
From what I understand what you echo is what I hear other scouts and pundits pointing to as one of his few areas of improvement.

If he hangs onto his pre-snap read he CAN be baited. The caveat is that he has the ability to come off of that and go elsewhere. He can and will read the entire defense after the snap, he just has to make himself do that. He has gotten caught out a few times hanging onto something when he should have moved on.

I am not sure how detrimental this particular aspect of his game will be against Clemson's secondary. In my opinion, while I agree with your particular critique, I think Tua's success will depend more on the game-plan we implement in order to thwart Clemson's front 7.

Tua's ability to make additional reads after the snap could be irrlevant if the O-line doesn't do their job OR if the play calls aren't suitable.

I think more rides on the coaching staff and the execution this week rather than that individual aspect of Tua's game. I think the staff will be able to look at the MSU game and the GA game and implement a better scheme to help us impose our will on a very talented defensive front unit.

If it were me (and thank the Lord Jesus in heaven that it isn't) I'd take my chances with max protection and bet the house on our WR's versus their DB's. I firmly believe that if Tua Tagovailoa and these receivers are given time, there isn't anything anybody can do to stop them. The rub is the same as it always is - can they pressure Tua and can we prevent them from pressuring Tua.

If he stays clean, it doesn't matter. It's over. The battle is in the trenches against Clemson. Very curious to see what wrinkles we have against them as well.
Agreed 100%. He has this skill and uses it often. I just feel on crucial downs he relies too much on the presnap read and does not confirm with his eyes after the snap before his release. Dont get me wrong. Sometimes the presnap read is so wide open its a no brainer. But I have seen him make several throws, most of which were successful, purely off the presnap read and the windows were much tighter after the snap because the defense made an adjustment. We are splitting hair here to find his weaknesses. But that is what you try to do when you are looking to stop an elite QB. I agree the pressure he faces in this game is the key to everything.
 

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