Tua needs to break tendencies for a Title.

B1GTide

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My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
Remember that Tua was beat up going into that game. His mobility was at a season low against MSU.
 

CajunCrimson

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My concern would be their Dline. The best Dline we played against was Miss St, that was also our lowest point total of the year. TUA will have to get the ball out quick, and prevsnap reads will be huge. I don’t know that Clemson’s Dline is better than State’s , I have seen mock drafts that have the 2 state kids going higher than Clemson’s linemen. I do know that Tua is healthier than against State. If Carolina can score 35 against the Tigers, I think we score 40
Tua'a health was not the best vs LSU or State.....much different scenario playing out next week.
 

Skeeterpop

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Has anyone else noticed the unusual responses from Tua about his ankle the last several days and following the OU game?

Its almost like he is going out of his way to let everyone one know he is not 100% and its still bothering him. A couple weeks ago he ways saying he was fine and going to be 100%. It feels like its gamemanship that coach Saban is playing with CU so they are forced to spend a little extra time planning for Hurts. Maybe I am reading into this too much but it surprises me that he does not just say, I am fine or will be ready. He is giving a lot of extra details that feels unnatural to me. It’s definitely a deviation from his past interviews during the season when we all know he was hurt and he kept saying he was ok.
 

cmmiller711

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Give me a couple minutes to explain my thoughts. Tua is by far the most talented pre-read QB in college. He sees the field incredibly well and reads defenses as good as anyone in the game. Lst year during the Title game his game ending play was both perfect and has been somewhat of a thorn in his side this season. We all have watched as he has continued to make many very similar throws. Looking at one side of the field knowing he was going to turn and throw to the other side at the last possible moment. Dont get me wrong he goes through progressions very well at times. But he tends to go to pre snap reads on key downs more than maybe he should. I think his success in the past has reinforced this and he continues to do with success.

However, in big games with good defenses and smart coaching staffs they will use this against him and bait him into a couple throws a game he should not make. GA did this more than a couple times. Yes he was injured and not able to used his flawless footwork and technique. I know CU will be ready and have watched lots of film to know that on 3rd and medium to long with two high safeties he will look one way and throw back the other. He will also do the same on the shorter slant throws and needs to be careful they dont drop linemen into the lanes when the down and distance makes this route a good choice.

I would love for the line to give him lots of time next week to go through several progressions and find the open reciever but that likely wont happen much. My strategy would be to use a lot more curls, outs and corner routes to throw in a curve to the defense looking for slants, crossing and verticle routs.

Just something I have noticed over the year and know Dabo will have his defense expecting more of the same. I think this game will come down to can Tua face pressure and find the open man while using his feet more than normal. I see an even bigger package this week with Jalen. His feet against CU could be critical at some point in the game.
tua's QBR in the oklahoma game was 96.4.....
 

CullmanTide

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Has anyone else noticed the unusual responses from Tua about his ankle the last several days and following the OU game?

Its almost like he is going out of his way to let everyone one know he is not 100% and its still bothering him. A couple weeks ago he ways saying he was fine and going to be 100%. It feels like its gamemanship that coach Saban is playing with CU so they are forced to spend a little extra time planning for Hurts. Maybe I am reading into this too much but it surprises me that he does not just say, I am fine or will be ready. He is giving a lot of extra details that feels unnatural to me. It’s definitely a deviation from his past interviews during the season when we all know he was hurt and he kept saying he was ok.
Take a deep breath, everything will be fine. Tua is the best QB getting the best coaching.
 

edwd58

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So we go 14-0 doing what Tua does and now we need to change who and what we are? I'd rather do what we do best and if it isn't good enough, then so be it.

My son played HS soccer and they made it to the State title game. They played an aggressive, high pressure style soccer all season. The night before the title game our coach decided thay needed to play more of a 'draw a line in the sand' defend/repel style. The kids left that meeting confused and shaking their heads. Yep, they got waxed the next day, not by a far superior foe, but because their coach didn't believe they were good enough and told them so with his decision. Our kids may have lost anyway, but they would rather have lost playing what they felt was their best style.
 

cmmiller711

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this fanbases expectations are wild. tua is the best QB in SEC history. he is the most efficient and accurate qb who has ever played college football. his pre snap read ability is that of a borderline pro bowl QB. teams in the NFL will tank for him. he is fine. we are fine. everything is fine.
 

Skeeterpop

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Tua is great. And he can get much better. That was my point of this thread. How can he continue to improve. This is how I feel he can improve even on being the most efficient QB ever. I am not comfortable resting on the past and saying we got this. I think you always have to keep working to get better and better. And this next game we will have to be better to be successful.
 

cmmiller711

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Tua is great. And he can get much better. That was my point of this thread. How can he continue to improve. This is how I feel he can improve even on being the most efficient QB ever. I am not comfortable resting on the past and saying we got this. I think you always have to keep working to get better and better. And this next game we will have to be better to be successful.
the title of the thread is "tua needs to break tendencies for a title" which is patently false.
 

TideFan in AU

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Granted it was against OU's porous defense, but Tua did a much better job of taking what the defense gave him, instead of going for the homerun on every throw. I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I don't believe there's team in CFB that cover all our receivers, TE, and, RB's out of the backfield consistently. We literally have NFL caliber players at every single skill position on offense this year.
We've never been able to say that before.

I have watched the replay a couple of times and I kept hearing Herbie lament OU not taking away the slants. If OU had squatted on those routes, they would have seen Jeudy, Smith, or Smith streaking down the field wide open on a double move. OU chose to try to keep everything in front of them and make us drive the field, and for the most part, we did that very well.
 

B1GTide

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the title of the thread is "tua needs to break tendencies for a title" which is patently false.
For much of the season I thought that it was Tua's tendencies that had him throwing so many deep passes. We learned in one of the Film Room episodes that this was not true. We learned that the primary read on many play calls is the deep route, and that Tua was making the choice based on the correct read. I was wrong. Tua follows the progressions, deep to short, and takes what is given to him.

But what I do believe he needs to work on is his tendency to want to take that deep route when it is there, even if he doesn't have time to do so. Sometimes he simply doesn't have time because the defense is in his face and he needs to drop that pass off, even if the deep throw is there. When he holds it too long, he takes a beating.
 

cmmiller711

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For much of the season I thought that it was Tua's tendencies that had him throwing so many deep passes. We learned in one of the Film Room episodes that this was not true. We learned that the primary read on many play calls is the deep route, and that Tua was making the choice based on the correct read. I was wrong. Tua follows the progressions, deep to short, and takes what is given to him.

But what I do believe he needs to work on is his tendency to want to take that deep route when it is there, even if he doesn't have time to do so. Sometimes he simply doesn't have time because the defense is in his face and he needs to drop that pass off, even if the deep throw is there. When he holds it too long, he takes a beating.
he certainly can improve his clock. he was born a month before petyon manning was drafted. he has a looooooong and successful football career ahead and will continue to develop. my point is that saying "tua NEEDS to" do anything in order to give alabama good enough QB play to win a title is absurd. alabama has won 5 titles in 9 years with qb play not even in the hemisphere of what tua has provided. if bama cant win a title with that guy playing like he's played, we do not deserve to be here.
 

Intl.Aperture

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I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
 

cmmiller711

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I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
i dont think the "tua is fine" (i.e. me) crowd is saying that he is beyond improvement or criticism. The rub is when someone suggests that this team needs better QB play to win. they do not. if they do, tua is certainly not the problem. Tua is so so so much better than anyone else that has ever played the position at UA. we are so deep into picking nits of our team that we're looking at maybe the best college football player of all time and saying he needs to improve to win a game. if we cant beat clemson with him, how badly would they beat us without him? if we cant beat clemson with him, we have much much much bigger problems than 13
 

CrimsonForce

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I think there are 2 mindsets being spoken in this thread that need to be reconciled lest we all keep talking past one another.

Some seem to be taking Skeeterpop's critique to mean that there are SERIOUS issues and Tua has glaring flaws that will be used to undo the entire team.

I don't think that's what he is saying. I think we all understand how special Tua is as a player and how special this offense is as a unit. Generationally good as far as Alabama teams go for certain. There can be no doubt about that.

But Skeeter isn't the first I've heard mention this and I don't think it's coming from a place of fear or trepidation. I've heard multiple pundits talk about Tua needing to let go of that 1st read on a more consistent basis. No one is saying he is bad at pre-snap reads. He's likely the best in CFB at them. But skilled secondaries can key on that with shell looks and other baiting techniques. LSU, MSU and Georgia are stacked with pro-players. I think it's fair to call this a nit-pick but it's exactly what Saban does. Even a Formula 1 car needs a front wing adjustment depending on the track and conditions. Tua is better than all the rest, but that doesn't make him perfect. I think it's ok to analyze where he could improve.

Here is the rub, IMO. Tua makes these pre-snap reads all season long against the likes of Lousiville, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Missouri, Tennessee etc ,etc - and those are all garbage to very mediocre defenses at best. So the fact that he CAN consistently move on from the 1st reads when necessary becomes muted over time when the protection is so good and the receivers are so open so immediately against inferior competition. Frankly, he could almost always trust his pre-snap read because those teams were inferior in every way.

Now, against MSU, LSU, Auburn, GA, that wasn't always the case. DB's hug the receivers more tightly, the pass rush is quite a bit better, the schemes are more complicated and executed with more discipline. That 1st read that has been open all season isn't as open. And while he has the ability to come off of it, maybe he hangs on longer than he should because of being conditioned a litlte bit against bad defenses. Tua even just said in an interview that in the last few weeks he feels he has improved his decision making from the end of the season.

HOWEVER, 2 things have to be pointed out. Tua played admirably against LSU and Auburn and adjusted very well. It also has to be pointed out that he was quite inured for most of that time. To know to what extent his injury was affecting his decision making against Ga I do not know. It obviously had big consequences on his game but he also seemed to force it at times. But, as some have pointed out, just before he left the game with injury he had settled down a lot and was taking what the defense was giving him. Against MSU I thought the game-plan was poor and it seemed obvious that Tua didn't have the time needed to execute the play calls. He did also hang onto the ball a little long in that game - not something he usually does.

The long and short of it is that we have been so much better than everybody else along the way that there have been small hiccups here and there where we are not executing in areas that we CAN execute simply because we hadn't been challenged in that way before.

Now, as I said before, I personally don't think it will be as much of a factor in this game because A: We played very good defenses already to help get our mind right. B: I think it will depend more on game-plan than the specific critique levied here. If Tua plays to his full potential and brings forth everything he is already capable of then the game is over right now.
The problem with the first post is that it reads as if Tua should stop looking off safeties and making reads on RPOs. If that's the case let's go back to the I formation and only pass using play action with 1 WR in the route and max protect. This offense is higher risk but higher reward and TBH there's been virtually no risk IRT the offense this year. So it's basically been a low risk high reward offense. Yes, Tua can improve just like any person walking planet earth but the title and first post are not worded correctly.

If Tua needs to "break his tendencies" then WTH did our past QBs need to do? Just be broken completely?
 

cmmiller711

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the problem with the first post is that it reads as if tua should stop looking off safeties and making reads on rpos. If that's the case let's go back to the i formation and only pass using play action with 1 wr in the route and max protect. This offense is higher risk but higher reward and tbh there's been virtually no risk irt the offense this year. So it's basically been a low risk high reward offense. Yes, tua can improve just like any person walking planet earth but the title and first post are not worded correctly.

if tua needs to "break his tendencies" then wth did our past qbs need to do? just be broken completely?
exactly. Thank you. the most efficient quarterback who has ever played college football.
 

B1GTide

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I thought that it was interesting that Tua, today, said that his decision making slipped in the second half of the season. He is learning and self-scouting. He knows that he can improve, and he is working on it all the time.
 

Tug Tide

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With the exception of the RPO plays, which we can see him reading a LB, I doubt many of us can tell you consistently what he is reading pre-snap, post-snap or otherwise. IMO Tua, Locks, Enos, Saban and probably Gattis are the ones who can tell you on a play by play basis what reads he made and why.
The TV views make it difficult to often see the whole picture. Without looking at it from his perspective and knowing the play call, we just have no real idea.

I am in agreement that he could dump it when he’s in trouble a little sooner and a little more often. Other than that, sit back relax and enjoy it.
 

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